Luck Of The Draw: A Corsair's Guide *NEW*

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Luck of the Draw: A Corsair's Guide *NEW*
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By Afania 2018-12-03 13:32:29
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Fenrir.Snaps said: »
I upgraded my wifi setup at home and haven't had crippling issues with dropped packets, even with six boxing and playing 4 ranged attackers. I suspect that most people using wifi would benefit from this. I still get dropped packets (usually the action message packets) although I built a retry mechanism into my ra addon to deal with this.

This is beyond what should be expected from a player although it is possible to work around it if you want to have a better experience.


Interesting.....Ill try wired next time.
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By Tomlaps 2018-12-03 13:38:33
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Afania said: »
I think as long as someone doesn't go out of their way to personal attack different type of players, yeah, certainly. I've seen many hardcore players that would trash other social players because they don't try hard enough for them. THAT is kind of behavior that should not be encouraged.

Arislan is always yelling at me when i mpk him...
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By Afania 2018-12-03 13:40:29
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Tomlaps said: »
Afania said: »
I think as long as someone doesn't go out of their way to personal attack different type of players, yeah, certainly. I've seen many hardcore players that would trash other social players because they don't try hard enough for them. THAT is kind of behavior that should not be encouraged.

Arislan is always yelling at me when i mpk him...

Arislan is mean :(
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By SimonSes 2018-12-03 14:20:33
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I have 300Mb/s connection and I only has massive issue with lag during Dynamis. Even more interesting is that I sometimes 2-3box in Dynamis and my mule has way less lag than my main. I can barely play on my main. I try to overcome some symptoms like for example I try to manually change to TP set with //gs equip command, but it's so *** frustrating.
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By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2018-12-03 16:06:40
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I have 400Mb/sec(or so Charter says, it's anywhere from 250 to 600 on speed tests), low latency, everything hard wired and qualified with a fluke, and an enterprise grade router. While it's possible some of the issues are due to people having shoddy wifi(wireless is rarely as clean as proponents of the technology seem to think), I'm relatively confident it's in part due to a software issue in the instance's communication to the main server.

If there are many groups in any of the instances, even basic ***like nyzul or salvage, it seems to choke. I actually did an experiment back in the days where everyone would solo arrapago remnants, with 24 people in the zone sending a /l on one character in arrapago would take as long as 6 minutes to reach characters not currently in an instance and 14 minutes to arrive on another character in a seperate instance.

It would make sense that performance issues of that type would scale exponentially with larger groups, which is why small groups don't seem to notice it. With my 12 characters, even if I'm the only group in omen or dynamis I will lose a huge percentage of incoming and outgoing packets.

Further, when using a plugin to inject a ranged attack on every outgoing communication, I still experience notably slower average attacks in these instances than normal circumstances. Thus, it seems it may not be directly latency but some sort of queue getting stuffed up. If all actions were delayed by X ms, a steady stream of actions would still result in nonstop ranged attacks. If actions were bunching up and then being processed at once, results would be expected to closer match what I've seen.

tldr; ***sucks get a handle SE
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By Shiva.Arislan 2018-12-03 17:55:21
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Afania said: »
It depends on type of player you are. If you are more of a social player than you may find competitive gameplay hurting player relationship, in that case you may have more negative pov toward it.

I hesitate to really label myself as a social player. I maintain pretty high expectations of myself and my LS mates.

I just don't understand the preoccupation for "winning parse". I believe in the utility of parse, mostly as a way to easily spot problems and correct them.

But to use it as a gauge of playing skill or gear quality? I don't believe it really says as much about that as people think. A dropped packet, RNG, a missed WS, bad luck w/ debuffs, etc... any number of things that are entirely out of your control can cause you to come up short. Even if you play "perfectly".

IMO, as long as everybody in my group is within reasonable distance of each other, and the fight is won, I'm happy. I'm secure enough in my own skill and gear, that it doesn't dampen my enjoyment to not come in #1 each and every time.

I'm lucky to play with people that kinda operate the same way. The only time we really bring up who won parse is if it was the BRD or RDM or something funny/astounding like that. :)

I really hate groups where the first thing they do after a fight is post parse, even before everybody's done saying "good job" to each other.
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By Shiva.Arislan 2018-12-03 17:59:15
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Tomlaps said: »
Arislan is always yelling at me when i mpk him...

Stop pulling hate with Trueflight and running Kei towards me!
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By Fenrir.Snaps 2018-12-03 18:04:23
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Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »
I have 400Mb/sec(or so Charter says, it's anywhere from 250 to 600 on speed tests), low latency, everything hard wired and qualified with a fluke, and an enterprise grade router. While it's possible some of the issues are due to people having shoddy wifi(wireless is rarely as clean as proponents of the technology seem to think), I'm relatively confident it's in part due to a software issue in the instance's communication to the main server.

If there are many groups in any of the instances, even basic ***like nyzul or salvage, it seems to choke. I actually did an experiment back in the days where everyone would solo arrapago remnants, with 24 people in the zone sending a /l on one character in arrapago would take as long as 6 minutes to reach characters not currently in an instance and 14 minutes to arrive on another character in a seperate instance.

It would make sense that performance issues of that type would scale exponentially with larger groups, which is why small groups don't seem to notice it. With my 12 characters, even if I'm the only group in omen or dynamis I will lose a huge percentage of incoming and outgoing packets.

Further, when using a plugin to inject a ranged attack on every outgoing communication, I still experience notably slower average attacks in these instances than normal circumstances. Thus, it seems it may not be directly latency but some sort of queue getting stuffed up. If all actions were delayed by X ms, a steady stream of actions would still result in nonstop ranged attacks. If actions were bunching up and then being processed at once, results would be expected to closer match what I've seen.

tldr; ***sucks get a handle SE

I'm not contesting that the issue is on their end and that it's a real issue, just that it's highly exacerbated by a certain connection properties. Try doing dynamis on LTE. The bandwidth should be higher than is required but the packet less is absurd compared to wired or wifi.
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By Bahamut.Lexouritis 2018-12-03 18:28:10
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Shiva.Arislan said: »
I hesitate to really label myself as a social player. I maintain pretty high expectations of myself and my LS mates.

I just don't understand the preoccupation for "winning parse". I believe in the utility of parse, mostly as a way to easily spot problems and correct them.

But to use it as a gauge of playing skill or gear quality? I don't believe it really says as much about that as people think. A dropped packet, RNG, a missed WS, bad luck w/ debuffs, etc... any number of things that are entirely out of your control can cause you to come up short. Even if you play "perfectly".

IMO, as long as everybody in my group is within reasonable distance of each other, and the fight is won, I'm happy. I'm secure enough in my own skill and gear, that it doesn't dampen my enjoyment to not come in #1 each and every time.

I'm lucky to play with people that kinda operate the same way. The only time we really bring up who won parse is if it was the BRD or RDM or something funny/astounding like that. :)

I really hate groups where the first thing they do after a fight is post parse, even before everybody's done saying "good job" to each other.

^ Really well said.
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By Afania 2018-12-03 18:32:01
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Shiva.Arislan said: »

I hesitate to really label myself as a social player. I maintain pretty high expectations of myself and my LS mates.

I just don't understand the preoccupation for "winning parse". I believe in the utility of parse, mostly as a way to easily spot problems and correct them.

The entire point of spotting the problem and correct them is for the result to begin with.

Shiva.Arislan said: »

I just don't understand the preoccupation for "winning parse". I believe in the utility of parse, mostly as a way to easily spot problems and correct them.

But to use it as a gauge of playing skill or gear quality? I don't believe it really says as much about that as people think. A dropped packet, RNG, a missed WS, bad luck w/ debuffs, etc... any number of things that are entirely out of your control can cause you to come up short. Even if you play "perfectly".

I don't think it's realistic to win every single* time nor use it as a way to gauge player quality. I've played long enough to know such common sense, lol.

However, I think it's a necessary mindset to have if your goal is to change how things are in this world. When I started the job 10 years ago, it wasn't even "DD with buffs", it was "brd with a gun", and not even as good as brd. If I make one gil every time someone say "Hey Afa lv another job if you want to DD", or "cor is not a real dd" I would have capped gil on 10 characters, lol.

How do I change that? 1) never settle for good enough 2) let the community know about the job.

If I settle for 9/10 then whoever won parse would pop on the forum and say "Cor is not a real DD". If I managed 10/10 and still lose, at least I no longer feel sorry for myself because I tried.

And if I parse with another equally geared DD 10 times, aiming for 10/10 will yield greater chance to win at least once than settle with 9/10.

Thats just the way I am. If I set a goal, even if it's seemly impossible goal, at least I'd try until I no longer feel sorry for not trying. I know I'm more of a stubborn dumbass idiot than most people :)
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By Shiva.Eightball 2018-12-03 22:59:29
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To be fair I didn’t really say settle for 9/10. 9/10 for 100% DD situations vs 10/10 for 50% DD situations, Path A for first dagger would be best option, it does however depend on play style. You have mentioned you rarely RA anymore so Path B makes sense for you so yes you should do B first, but not everyone does all Melee or even DDs on cor which is why all I say is choose what’s best for you and get them in the order you expect will help you the most.
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By Afania 2018-12-03 23:21:03
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Shiva.Eightball said: »
To be fair I didn’t really say settle for 9/10. 9/10 for 100% DD situations vs 10/10 for 50% DD situations, Path A for first dagger would be best option, it does however depend on play style. You have mentioned you rarely RA anymore so Path B makes sense for you so yes you should do B first, but not everyone does all Melee or even DDs on cor which is why all I say is choose what’s best for you and get them in the order you expect will help you the most.

That's just repeating what everyone has been saying, lol.
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By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2018-12-04 11:55:28
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Rostam is a large investment. Lanun is not. When meleeing, a Rostam path B over Lanun path B is a colossal difference(10% more FUA, more dmg, more DT, more SB II).

Rostam path A over Lanun path A is a minimal difference when using ranged attack. Really only the 5 store tp, the DMG doesn't matter, the occ. double doesn't matter, and the DT rarely matters.

If you have an exceptional situation resulting in an abnormal preference to ranged, or just can't stand meleeing, I get it. But, for almost all users, path B is the smarter use of a single Rostam.

If gil is no issue or RP is a severe issue, that may shift it. But, you are not losing any significant amount of performance by using a Lanun for your path A and Rostam for path B(and optionally C).
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By Fenrir.Snaps 2018-12-04 12:47:50
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Not having to wear beggar HQ+1 gear is worth 150M.
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 Leviathan.Comeatmebro
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By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2018-12-04 13:32:32
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If you can afford 3 rostams, you don't need anyone's input to decide which order to augment them, probably throwing heroisms too. If one is a big investment, you want to make the most out of it.

I have all 3, fwiw.
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By Bahamut.Ryoshisan 2018-12-04 14:08:36
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For Dyna D - is the Anrin Obi considered BIS for Leaden due to the double dark weather in the zone?
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By Shiva.Eightball 2018-12-04 14:12:05
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Bahamut.Ryoshisan said: »
For Dyna D - is the Anrin Obi considered BIS for Leaden due to the double dark weather in the zone?

yes
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By Asura.Warusha 2018-12-05 23:04:49
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On the note of parsing, I usually look at a parse and scroll on down to the bottom. If the people on the bottom aren't supposed to be there, I want to know what happened. If there is a large discrepancy between different members, it helps them to know they need to step up. Arguing over the top two slots is usually a moot point, but if you notice a trend doing the same fight over and over and your buddy is winning by 3% consistently, it helps to learn why(and crush his desire to live) for next run.
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By Fenrir.Skarwind 2018-12-06 01:13:30
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Thoughts on Arma? Part of me is considering it. I seen what RNG can do with Gandiva and it's disgusting.

Just a thought for Triple/Quad- Shot crit spam with AM3 up. Don't even bother weapon skilling, just keep spamming bullets left and right. (Unless the target takes alot of damage from leaden, over flow is going to happen)

Going to make Death Penalty for sure. But I can't really decide on an Empyrean.

I kinda want all the guns, Gotta catch'em all.

ItemSet 363568
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By Asura.Toralin 2018-12-06 02:00:27
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Fenrir.Skarwind said: »
Thoughts on Arma?

FOR THE BULLETS!
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By Afania 2018-12-06 02:55:35
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Fenrir.Skarwind said: »
Thoughts on Arma?

Just talked about it last page:

Afania said: »
Asura.Chiaia said: »
It does but for augged fomal ATM you need to manually set 5/5 in last stand merits.

Thanks....guess that make Armageddon best ra gun in 2019 too >.>

If am is up and SC Dmg isn't relevant it should still be bis, based on spreadsheet result.

Fenrir.Skarwind said: »
Thoughts on Arma? Part of me is considering it. I seen what RNG can do with Gandiva and it's disgusting.

Just a thought for Triple/Quad- Shot crit spam with AM3 up. Don't even bother weapon skilling, just keep spamming bullets left and right. (Unless the target takes alot of damage from leaden, over flow is going to happen)

Going to make Death Penalty for sure. But I can't really decide on an Empyrean.

I kinda want all the guns, Gotta catch'em all.

ItemSet 363568

1) there are no reason not to ws even with am really.....Does ws delay really hinder DPs that much? I guess I'll have to try.

2) For AM3, Change body to empy+3 and head to megh+2 for more crit Dmg and TS. Should be using oshosi hq legs too.
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By Fenrir.Snaps 2018-12-06 03:02:10
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Spreadsheets exaggerate white damage and have always made Empyrean out to be way better than they are in reality. The spreadsheet predicted AM3 white damage on Masamune to be 50% of the DPS split, but in all of our parses it never broke 25%. Being off by a factor of 2 means they're completely useless for comparing RMEA.
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By Afania 2018-12-06 03:07:56
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I already know, but it was 500 dps ahead on spreadsheet which is huge, and several rng cor in game swear they parse higher with arma.

So I have no doubt that arma can compete at least.

Spreadsheet also says unaugment ukon beats unaugmented chango, and when I pt with a friend with both he did have higher dps with ukon.

Masa being ahead of doji on spreadsheet is also the same result as sim.

So I have no evidence that white Dmg being exaggerated on spreadsheet to the point to screw the result completely.

I had a parse data from very long time ago that did have 50:50 white Dmg ws split with arma. That's before QS hands too release too. With qs hands it should favor arma more.
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By Asura.Toralin 2018-12-06 04:57:17
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Wait did someone say if my Fomal is R15/15 I still need to have 5 Last Stand merits?
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By Bismarck.Nickeny 2018-12-06 06:40:24
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Asura.Toralin said: »
Wait did someone say if my Fomal is R15/15 I still need to have 5 Last Stand merits?


for the spreadsheet I believe - Would be funny tho - I still have 5/5 because of a dare saying I couldnt make a decent last stand set on thf...
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By Fenrir.Snaps 2018-12-06 10:46:24
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Afania said: »
I already know, but it was 500 dps ahead on spreadsheet which is huge, and several rng cor in game swear they parse higher with arma.

So I have no doubt that arma can compete at least.

Spreadsheet also says unaugment ukon beats unaugmented chango, and when I pt with a friend with both he did have higher dps with ukon.

Masa being ahead of doji on spreadsheet is also the same result as sim.

So I have no evidence that white Dmg being exaggerated on spreadsheet to the point to screw the result completely.

I had a parse data from very long time ago that did have 50:50 white Dmg ws split with arma. That's before QS hands too release too. With qs hands it should favor arma more.

Our Masa vs Doji results were not the same as yours. Doji always trashed Masa in reality (before the augments anyways) and we're using addons to automate 'perfect play' as modeled by the spreadsheets. Feel free to believe your fake numbers though.
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By Nyarlko 2018-12-06 11:31:24
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Bismarck.Nickeny said: »
Asura.Toralin said: »
Wait did someone say if my Fomal is R15/15 I still need to have 5 Last Stand merits?


for the spreadsheet I believe - Would be funny tho - I still have 5/5 because of a dare saying I couldnt make a decent last stand set on thf...

Really confuses my LS sometimes when I start /ra spamming and popping off Last Stands on THF, because I always use the same lockstyle and am frequently on COR for events. lol
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By Afania 2018-12-06 12:14:55
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Fenrir.Snaps said: »
Afania said: »
I already know, but it was 500 dps ahead on spreadsheet which is huge, and several rng cor in game swear they parse higher with arma.

So I have no doubt that arma can compete at least.

Spreadsheet also says unaugment ukon beats unaugmented chango, and when I pt with a friend with both he did have higher dps with ukon.

Masa being ahead of doji on spreadsheet is also the same result as sim.

So I have no evidence that white Dmg being exaggerated on spreadsheet to the point to screw the result completely.

I had a parse data from very long time ago that did have 50:50 white Dmg ws split with arma. That's before QS hands too release too. With qs hands it should favor arma more.

Our Masa vs Doji results were not the same as yours. Doji always trashed Masa in reality (before the augments anyways) and we're using addons to automate 'perfect play' as modeled by the spreadsheets. Feel free to believe your fake numbers though.


There was a parse result I posted in controlled environment with same Sam roll number on apex years ago in old thread. So I didn't pull the fake numbers out of nowhere with no evidence.

You called others parse test in controlled environment fake numbers but another guys random wave 3 parse test in not so controlled environment are viewed as some kind of holy Gospel to prove Ra > melee? Pretty biased.

I'll try to do another round of parse test once I r15 my arma.
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By Afania 2018-12-06 12:42:48
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Found the old post....It was from 2017 may, so that's before QS hand exist. QS hands actually favors arma, since it's 1 extra hit past 1000 tp.

I remembered wrong about white Dmg ws split, it was only a bit above 1/3. But the end result still favored arma....At least in the situations listed. So perhaps spreadsheet white Dmg inflation doesn't affect end result as much when it comes to which weapon being better.

The way I do it was, I parsed the crit rate, avg white Dmg and ws avg, then manually calculate how long it would kill a mob, that simulates perfect play and disregard human error on ws speed.


Quote:
Kinda late reply, but for those who wonder about old Fomalhaut v.s Armageddon debate, here are the parse data that I have.


Target: Apex bats

Buffs: Sublime sushi + No.2 sam roll(4 hit) for all fights, no chaos roll.

Sets: Crit-hit rate/dmg set for armageddon (start with 3000 tp), full stp set for fomalhaut. Same WS set.

Result:
Fomalhaut:
Dmg: 66.7%
SC dmg: 23.6%
WS avg: 6806 (25s)
racc: 89.47% (76s)
rcrit rate: 5.88%
rcrit avg: 795 (4s)
none crit avg: 584 (64s)

Armageddon:
WS avg: 5963 (26s) (includes first wildfire ws avg to trigger AM3)
racc: 95.83% (96s)
rcrit rate: 32.61%
rcrit avg: 1536 (30s)
none crit avg: 1000 (62s)

Note1: I forgot to switch to fettering blade for Arma crit-hit build, so I lost 4% crit-hit rate. But Kustawi is still a very viable weapon for ranged fights due to enmity- and rapid shot, so anyways!

Note2: I got hit with attack down on Arma for a few shots, so that may lower some* ranged dps.

Note3: WS avg includes WF dmg, which doesn't drastically affects WS avg without attack buffs. With attack buffs pushing WS avg to 20k+ range, using WF to activate AM3 becomes bigger dps lose.

Math:
Assuming an NM takes 20 ws to kill, start with 1 WS and have 4 hit with sam roll, that's 57 shots total.

Fomalhaut:
At 6% crit-hit rate 3 shots would crit, total white dmg:
3 x 795 = 2,385
54 x 584 = 31,536
Total white dmg: 33,921

Total WS dmg:
20 x 6806 = 136,120

Total dmg: 170,041

Assuming 30% of dmg came from SC, SC dmg: 51,012

Total dmg including SC: 221,053

Armageddon:
At 32% crit-hit rate, 18 shots crit. Total white dmg:
18 x 1536 = 27,648
39 x 1000= 39,000

Total white dmg: 66,648

Total WS dmg:
20 x 5963 = 119,260
Total dmg: 186,268 (10% more dps than Fomalhaut).

So I don't have any evidence to believe spreadsheet results are fake, like none. Though things may change a little with current TS gears.
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By Fenrir.Snaps 2018-12-06 13:28:34
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Afania said: »
You called others parse test in controlled environment fake numbers but another guys random wave 3 parse test in not so controlled environment are viewed as some kind of holy Gospel to prove Ra > melee? Pretty biased.

I'll try to do another round of parse test once I r15 my arma.

Fake numbers is a reference to your overconfidence in spreadsheet results, not parses. Your take on my response to the wave 3 testing is a blatant mis-characterization. Here's literally the first thing that I said about those results.

Snaps said:
I would say it's a okay qualitative test, but you would need a larger sample and record other parameters (ranged accuracy in particular) to know if this is a valid comparison.

So out of the gates I question the results he got. I also went out and did testing of my own against brittle rocks that day(melee vs ra). The objective was to quantify the fTP/second for both configurations as I feel that's going to line up almost exactly with the amount of damage you're doing with Leaden Salute (ignoring truncation error caused by 100k, although that is a real issue in some cases.) I used an addon to WS as soon as possible in both scenarios, and my RA gearswap extension automates shooting/WS. The amount of TP used with each Leaden Salute was recorded and the value added by Moonshade Earring (250) was added to this. The results were plugged into the Leaden Salute fTP curve and the output of that was summed for all of the weapon skills for that segment of the test. The summed fTP was divided by the elapsed time. I used Samurai Roll, capped haste or flurry I.

Snaps said:
I did a Triple Shot vs melee test
on brittle rocks
1.18 ftp/sec for Triple Shot, .954 for melee
taking into account moonshade earring
almost a 25% marginal gain

I don't know what your idea of a controlled test is but I feel like my testing is much more controlled. The test should be repeated because my gear was not perfect for either scenario and the sample size was not large enough. The brittle rocks die fast and requiring triple shot to be up makes collecting samples annoying. Regardless, these are the results I got.

For Doji vs Masa, those results come from literally hours of repeatedly killing Neak using addons to engage, addons to do buffs, and addons to do WS.

I'm not saying that Armageddon will or will not beat Fomalhaut. I don't know. Just stating relying on a spreadsheet for RMEA comparisons when we know they are so inaccurate is foolish, and that advising others based on results you get in the spreadsheet is bad advice.

In regards to personal testimony, I don't put much faith in it. I feel it's mostly confirmation bias.
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