Raetic Weapons Testing / Discussions

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Raetic weapons testing / discussions
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 Ramuh.Austar
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By Ramuh.Austar 2017-11-29 07:49:05
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if you get ahold of a polearm can you test how the additional hit functions with zan hasso? I assume it can proc both.
 Fenrir.Snaps
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By Fenrir.Snaps 2017-11-29 09:18:31
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My HP for those tests was 2254 (940 MP) and 2314 (1000 MP). If you factor this in, then

Enmity Lost = MP Consumed * 8.45 * Max HP/1800
Enmity Lost = MP Consumed * 8.45 * 1800/Max HP

Works for all of my data although I don't have a huge HP/MP spread for this so I wouldn't consider it strong evidence. There's also some +/- with that 8.45 that fits as well.

Edit: 1800/Max HP was inverted
 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2017-11-29 09:56:41
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That makes those hands interesting for a "get off me" set.
 Ragnarok.Fabiano
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By Ragnarok.Fabiano 2017-11-29 10:05:26
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can also combine it with Beguiling Collar
 Ramuh.Austar
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By Ramuh.Austar 2017-11-29 10:18:51
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snaps for clarity, the store tp bonus is first hit of every single attack round (mp permitting) and nothing for additional hits, correct?
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By clearlyamule 2017-11-29 10:29:15
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Fenrir.Snaps said: »
I also have no idea if the damage take before phalanx/stoneskin matters,
I'm like 99.9% it does. A hit that did 0 without buffs from a level -1 mob didn't drain mp... but as soon as it critted got the drain and enmity loss. Makes some amount of sense with the drain mechanic being primarily for negating dmg that they'd put it somewhere around where mana wall would be.
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By Fenrir.Snaps 2017-11-29 11:18:34
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clearlyamule said: »
Fenrir.Snaps said: »
I also have no idea if the damage take before phalanx/stoneskin matters,
I'm like 99.9% it does. A hit that did 0 without buffs from a level -1 mob didn't drain mp... but as soon as it critted got the drain and enmity loss. Makes some amount of sense with the drain mechanic being primarily for negating dmg that they'd put it somewhere around where mana wall would be.

Given the recent information I posted, I'm inclined to think that it only matters in that the physical damage must be non zero before phalanx and stoneskin. This is because you won't incur MP loss otherwise. But the actual non zero amount is irrelevant.
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By clearlyamule 2017-11-29 11:55:16
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Fenrir.Snaps said: »
clearlyamule said: »
Fenrir.Snaps said: »
I also have no idea if the damage take before phalanx/stoneskin matters,
I'm like 99.9% it does. A hit that did 0 without buffs from a level -1 mob didn't drain mp... but as soon as it critted got the drain and enmity loss. Makes some amount of sense with the drain mechanic being primarily for negating dmg that they'd put it somewhere around where mana wall would be.

Given the recent information I posted, I'm inclined to think that it only matters in that the physical damage must be non zero before phalanx and stoneskin. This is because you won't incur MP loss otherwise. But the actual non zero amount is irrelevant.
Seems likely since actual dmg enmity loss only cares about the actual damage taken.
 Fenrir.Snaps
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By Fenrir.Snaps 2017-11-29 12:11:10
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Ramuh.Austar said: »
snaps for clarity, the store tp bonus is first hit of every single attack round (mp permitting) and nothing for additional hits, correct?

Correct, sort of. It's the first strike of the raetic weapon for the attack round. If you're offhanding it, that strike doesn't come first. I didn't rigorously test this though. I just assumed that because it didn't proc on the first strike of the attack round when I offhanded it that it would proc when the offhanded did strike. I had moved on to testing level 0 mobs so nothing was surviving the initial strike.
clearlyamule said: »
Fenrir.Snaps said: »
clearlyamule said: »
Fenrir.Snaps said: »
I also have no idea if the damage take before phalanx/stoneskin matters,
I'm like 99.9% it does. A hit that did 0 without buffs from a level -1 mob didn't drain mp... but as soon as it critted got the drain and enmity loss. Makes some amount of sense with the drain mechanic being primarily for negating dmg that they'd put it somewhere around where mana wall would be.

Given the recent information I posted, I'm inclined to think that it only matters in that the physical damage must be non zero before phalanx and stoneskin. This is because you won't incur MP loss otherwise. But the actual non zero amount is irrelevant.
Seems likely since actual dmg enmity loss only cares about the actual damage taken.

I am leaning towards the formula I posted because it's almost identical to the current HP loss formula, there's just some multiplier there now.

Enmity Loss from HP = HP Lost * 1800/Max HP
Enmity Loss from MP = M * MP Lost * 1800/Max HP
M ~= 8.45

I tried using Max MP as the denominator but couldn't get it to work with my data.

I'll try and do one last test using a mage job with very different HP/MP totals than RUN. If the measured result is within 1% of the expected value I will call it good. If someone wants to figure out the exact modifier then I'll leave that to them.
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By clearlyamule 2017-11-29 12:46:19
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An easy way to rule out max mp would be to set your current to a value low enough you know it will consume all of it even at a lower max and then repeat with 2 different mp levels. Fairly easy to set up and a lot of room for error on the precision part since just going for pass fail.

But knowing SE and how they like to do enmity formulas and make simple alterations I'd be surprised if it didn't use the 1800/max hp. Does make trying to gear for it interesting though as max hp directly effects loss and max mp indirectly would via mp drainage.
 Ramuh.Austar
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By Ramuh.Austar 2017-11-29 12:47:05
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I just wanted confirmation it only applies to the initial hit and not a full round. Thanks.
 Fenrir.Snaps
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By Fenrir.Snaps 2017-11-29 12:51:08
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Another reason max MP seems silly is because it's used as the denominator to calculate the MP lost. It would end up canceling out and the enmity loss would be static unless you didn't have enough MP to lose.

Also I goofed and the value that works is ~8.49 not ~8.45, which makes me think it might just be 8.5 and that Libra is just weird or that there is some truncation error somewhere. We'll see with the next test I do I guess.
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By Afania 2017-12-03 04:10:17
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Did another Raetic bangles(nq) testing tonight, I still can't figure out the formula but here is the result:

1310 MP max
Got hit 125 times
Proc 12 times
 Ragnarok.Lockfort
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By Ragnarok.Lockfort 2017-12-09 13:32:10
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dangruf wadi, 21 trades:

3x rune baghnakh
3x rune arrow
2x rune axe
5x adaman nugget
8x cermet chunk

Guess I'll try ordelle next time when I get cores again, for algol
 Fenrir.Skarwind
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By Fenrir.Skarwind 2017-12-09 22:48:26
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Going to screw around with Raetic Blade on a war fencer set. I'll be dropping Cessance in favor of Ethereal Earring. Shouldnt be hard keeping MP up as long as Im tanking/have a monster's attention.

Multi Attack:
DA=84%
TA=7%
QA+3%

Outside Escha: 200mp
Raetic Proc Rate= 10%

Inside Escha: 500mp
Raetic Proc Rate= 25%

ItemSet 355208

I currently use regal in my fencer set for accuracy, I do not have the TA ring from Reisenjima just yet.
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By Kilobyte 2017-12-13 22:36:40
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Ragnarok.Lockfort said: »
dangruf wadi, 21 trades:

3x rune baghnakh
3x rune arrow
2x rune axe
5x adaman nugget
8x cermet chunk

Guess I'll try ordelle next time when I get cores again, for algol

12 trades in Wadi

3x rune baghnakh
3x arcane flowerpot
2x rune Algol
16x cermet chunk
4x adaman nugget
 Ragnarok.Lockfort
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By Ragnarok.Lockfort 2017-12-13 23:14:56
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Kilobyte said: »

12 trades in Wadi

3x rune baghnakh
3x arcane flowerpot
2x rune Algol
16x cermet chunk
4x adaman nugget

Luck isn't on my side then.

30 trades:

5x rune baghnakh
8x rune arrow
3x rune bangles
6x adaman nugget
8x cermet chunks

traded on firesday if anyone cares
 Ragnarok.Lockfort
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By Ragnarok.Lockfort 2017-12-21 06:09:19
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67 more trades, lightsday, dangruf wadi:

23x cermet chunk
12x rune arrow
11x arcane flowerpot
9x adaman nugget
8x rune baghnakh
2x rune bangles
2x rune axe
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By Pantafernando 2017-12-21 06:26:54
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I wonder if the STP from raetic weapons can proc on ranged attacks.
 Ragnarok.Lockfort
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By Ragnarok.Lockfort 2017-12-21 17:36:44
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Does anyone know if the MAB from MP consumed adds onto the base MAB on the staff, or overwrites it?
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By clearlyamule 2017-12-21 19:40:41
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Pantafernando said: »
I wonder if the STP from raetic weapons can proc on ranged attacks.
Doubtful since the other testing showed it procs on the hand wielding it
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By Fenrir.Skarwind 2017-12-21 22:11:13
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Meant to post, but I'm sorta hooked on Raetic Weapons.

On Warrior it's pretty easy to sustain the mp as long as:
1)Ethereal Earring is on for TP/DT sets.
2)You have hate (And you probably will)
or
3)The Monster has a habit of spamming gross AoE

This was outside of Escha Zones, inside it was even easier to keep the effects up.

Pretty easy to set conditions for those weapons in gearswap as well.
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By Shiva.Hiep 2018-01-01 07:08:14
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Does anyone know the best zone to farm for Rune Rod?
 Fenrir.Snaps
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By Fenrir.Snaps 2018-01-01 09:24:37
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Shiva.Hiep said: »
Does anyone know the best zone to farm for Rune Rod?

http://wiki.ffo.jp/html/3216.html

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By ocean 2018-01-01 11:15:37
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If multi attacks can only proc on the off-hand.. what happens if you dual raetic sword +1s and you proc a triple & a double from each raetic? Would that be a QUINTUPLE? OR a SEXTUPLE?! with up to 100stp?
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By Asura.Geriond 2018-01-01 11:22:24
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If you were dual wielding Raetics and got both a Raetic proc and a triple attack on both hands, that would be 8 attacks that round.
 Asura.Kapoku
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By Asura.Kapoku 2018-01-01 11:49:32
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Has anyone done any testing with Raetic blade offhand for Tizona BLU? On paper it seems to do superbly well, although I'm interested to see if Tizona was able to back up the mp loss
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By Asura.Zanosan 2018-01-01 13:54:08
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With Tizona I was running out of mana after about two minutes of fighting. In any zerg shorter than that, It's a pretty insane weapon. Blows other offhands out of the water in terms of dps and mostly synergizes well with Tizona, not necessarily because of the mp, but because of how quickly you can build AM3 and your frequency of weaponskills afterwards. This was with +1 by the way. In a somewhat brief and lax session of Neak spam, it was possible to hit around 4.5k dps with the weapon (without capped attack, we were lazy and more interested in the general idea of the weapon and had two Tizona/Raetic+1 users as our DDs).

Under more optimal conditions and a zerg, I think that with this sword set up, BLU can start contending with other job options. However, it's still far from a MS WAR hitting 8k~? dps. All that said, I think Raetic+1 is definitely BLU's best offhand, by far, in a zerg situation, but don't ever expect to cast a spell again if you use it full time in common circumstances.
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By ocean 2018-01-01 16:26:09
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Asura.Geriond said: »
If you were dual wielding Raetics and got both a Raetic proc and a triple attack on both hands, that would be 8 attacks that round.


Nah. Multi-attacks can only proc on the off hand
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