Killer Instinct: The Beastmaster Compendium

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Killer Instinct: The Beastmaster Compendium
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By mostlycatless 2021-02-22 16:29:37
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Fenrir.Skarwind said: »
Actually I think if BST received the same trait that DRG has; Dolchi would become even stronger.

The WSDMG Trait DRG Gets applies on all hits of a weaponskill.

https://www.bg-wiki.com/ffxi/WS_Damage_Boost
That's the point I'm making here, a WS bonus trait would affect all WS equally and do nothing to change the relative value of weapons, leaving REMA weapons lacking still.

Quetzalcoatl.Falkirk said: »
I like your ideas, and you presented them well, but this is SE we're talking about...
In the context of balancing BST, they've set a precedent when it comes to lazy and ineffectual.
No argument there, just wanted to address the notion I've seen mentioned a few times that it isn't possible to adjust axe WS without benefiting WAR overly much.
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By Asura.Briko 2021-02-22 17:37:20
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Wouldn't mind sic master animation to work like puppetmaster maneuvers, an auto-fight feature would also be nice.
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By Asura.Beanen 2021-02-22 17:47:58
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Asura.Briko said: »
Wouldn't mind sic master animation to work like puppetmaster maneuvers, an auto-fight feature would also be nice.

I agree, but if they did this they could also just increase the ready recast merit by another second so we don't have to wear any pants.

Auto fighting like how summoners pets work would be nice they attack if attacked or attack the mob you are attacking if you engage a mob, but also keep the ability to tell him whom to attack at the same time.
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By Asura.Sirris 2021-02-23 00:58:11
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Phoenix.Capuchin said: »
Asura.Sirris said: »
RNG and COR do not have melee REMAs.
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I don't play DRK but isn't Caladbolg/Liberator their top dog options over Ambu weapons?
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even with WAR R15 Chango is your bread-and-butter weapon.
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DRG I have both R15 Trishula and Shining One (also have Ryunohige not R15), aeonic is definitely better most of the time. I almost never use Shining One.

RNG COR - which is why it's freaking nuts that Savage Blade beats any of their ranged REMA WS in a lot of situations (paired with TP Bonus +1000 ranged weapon, and RNG gets WSD+20% arrow from DI). Sword WS shouldn't be beating the best physical ranged WS for the ranged jobs (Last Stand, Jishnu), but it does, easily.

DRK - has a lot of different tools, but it's ridiculous with Naegling too (and the Ambu GA is also a freaking beast)

DRG - I wasn't talking about Shining One on DRG, I was talking about Naegling on DRG being competitive with polearm REMAs. To be fair though, this isn't like BST having the Ambu weapon as the CLEAR winner.

SAM - And Shining One on SAM is better than anything of that job's weapons except Masa, and maybe R15 Doji in the right conditions.

WAR - If you can't reliably SC and you're just spamming WS (like, Dyna), my WAR friends who know more than I do about the job seem to prefer Savage Blade on Naegling over Chango. I'm very much an amateur WAR myself (though despite that, I get great results with Naegling WAR too).

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It sets a ceiling on our melee dps which is franky rather disappointing for a job that S-E considers now a front-line job.

You're not just a front-line job though, the most useful current BST niche is a front line job that also has this multi-purpose tool to buff, debuff, add some damage, set up SCs, do AoE damage, etc. Which is why it's pretty disappointing that, aside from Aymur, the rest of the BST ultimate weapons don't really do much for pets. But IMO, that's more of a problem with the rest of the lame master-focused ultimate weapons for BST being such a poor reflection of the job - not something to trash the devs for because they made a strong multiple jobs physical only axe. I don't see it as "THIS ONE AXE IS TOO STRONK", I see the flaw being more that pets are too weak and are not buffed enough through high end BST weapons.

The reason why RNG COR and Naegling work so well in a lot of situations is because most of us run melee-centric buffs and strats. Imagine if there was an Ambuscade gun that beat out Death Penalty/Arma/Gastra. That would have been ill-received to say the least by the thousands of players who bandwagoned these job and weapon combinations.

DRK has very good stats and traits and gear to hurt things period. It's a very different situation to, say, Ambu greatsword being better than R15 Caladbolg. REMA's on DRK are still king. Naegling is good for DRG sure but honestly it's more of a toy because you lose easy skillchain damage that you get with Trishula. This is another DRK or WAR situation where you take a job with a lot of very strong stats, traits, and abilities. For WAR, Naegling and Fencer build is strong and I use it myself but it doesn't cap delay without a dancer in party, and who parties with a dancer, one of the least common endgame jobs?

The immediate problem is not exactly that Dolichenus is too strong. The problem is that it's the strongest by a big margin, yet doesn't synergize with the strengths of the job, so there's not a smooth progression curve, and it doesn't do anything for the pet side of our job. The real problem is that axe WS design is incoherent and BST gear options are bad. I've argued in the past that beastmaster should get dragoon's WSD trait when pet is out, but even this isn't a full fix, just gives us some separation from warrior with regards to axe WS.

Quetzalcoatl.Falkirk said: »
mostlycatless said: »
A WSD trait would be a pretty lazy and ineffectual way of balancing BST WS

I like your ideas, and you presented them well, but this is SE we're talking about...
In the context of balancing BST, they've set a precedent when it comes to lazy and ineffectual.

S-E has absolutely no idea or vision for what they are doing with beastmaster. I hate that I always sound negative and we did just get a nice drop of stuff in the last couple of months but most of that is just easing pain points.
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By shamgi 2021-02-23 02:48:40
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I think BST is in kind of a weird spot right now. At the moment it feels like we're easily the highest ACC job just base, and we have a pretty huge amount of self buffs alongside the debuffs we can layer on. 50 bonus accuracy just for being engaged, 90% attack bonus(and the defense bonus from the pugil can last long enough to entirely counter the loss of defense from berserk), and that's on top of the various DEF down effects we bring(the slug, obviously, but one shouldn't discount the bird's, for example). And BST was largely the biggest winner in terms of pet food updates given we're the job best setup to gain from the double dipping.

And with the addition of the new armor and weapons, we're getting closer and closer to real hybrid setups that don't sacrifice too much of the master DPS for the sake of the pet.

At the same time, the benefits seem really wonky. Pet white damage is difficult to cap, and the pets best capable of doing real damage with the auto attacks or WSs are also the pets that lack the debuffs we want to apply. And even if we did so, we seem to at most be adding another 1 handed sword swing in damage to the output, hardly anything to glorify(especially in the age where white damage outside of any real specific setups is often such a small portion of DPS). We're still in a really weird spot in regards to half our REMA WSs being magic focused without really having the tools to make those WSs powerful, while our other two REMA WSs are pretty damn bad. I've been able to hit 30k Primals in nearly perfect conditions(I'm only missing the belt at this point), but that's hardly the 80-90k damage COR and RNG can put up in comparison(and for bonus points they still outclass us physically with Savage Blade). Pet WSs also feel like DPS losses because of animation lock, and largely only useful for their debuffs. And even then, the group DPS loss over not using the slug or the bird are too large to make the use of the more damage focused pets justified. I'd really enjoy seeing how well, say, the fly's AOE damage is in W3, but losing -25MDB or the def down in no way seems worthwhile for a pet that might do some decent damage.

And we're still in the really, really weird spot magically where our pets can get access to MACC or MAB, but not really both in any of the main armor slots. Udug's the only piece that breaks that trend, and well, it's an Omen body.

BST feels so much more useful and better to play than it used to, don't get me wrong. I can actually justify bringing it to W3 clears as a melee DPS and not simply a vehicle for the slug, but it still doesn't quite feel like the job's the frontline job they want it to be. They've thrown some frankly crazy buffs at us, and at this point I wonder if they shouldn't focus on some other jobs that need way more help, but I don't know if I'm truly happy with the results either. Doli's just one symptom of that, I think, crazy buffs that have catapulted the job a long way, but don't really "fix" the concept of the job.
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By SimonSes 2021-02-23 03:35:05
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shamgi said: »
I've been able to hit 30k Primals in nearly perfect conditions(I'm only missing the belt at this point), but that's hardly the 80-90k damage COR and RNG can put up in comparison

This is the only thing in your post that sounds misleading. 80-90k by COR is only possible with strong Malaise OR in something like Dynamis Sandoria with mobs taking more damage from magic and ofc with 3000tp. Same for RNG. Without Malaise and without bonus magic damage taken, both COR and RNG probably caps at around 56-60k at 3000tp. Still much more than BST, but not 30k to 90k :P
Also BST lacking damage with Primal is in big part a problem with gear for it. Very good DM augment can push it a lot higher than 30k probably. I need to calculate it I guess.
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By mostlycatless 2021-02-23 04:04:43
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Have to disagree completely there, nothing BST can do is good enough to justify using the job. Everything it does has one or more flaws that massively dampens its effectiveness.

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At the moment it feels like we're easily the highest ACC job just base
Other jobs have higher accuracy from gear and traits, BST is certainly a lot better off than it used to be, but it's not the best.

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90% attack bonus(and the defense bonus from the pugil can last long enough to entirely counter the loss of defense from berserk
Rage is 50%, not 90. Frenzied Rage is +25%. Even if you use both together that's still just 75%. Even then, their durations are not long enough to be able to fulltime both. Neither is Water Wall's duration - not only is it random, even if you do get the maximum duration out of it, it's still not going to last the 10 minutes you'd need it to in order to fulltime both.

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and that's on top of the various DEF down effects we bring(the slug, obviously, but one shouldn't discount the bird's, for example)
The problem with these debuffs is that they have random durations, and we can't see when they wear off. Corrosive Ooze lasts 70-90 seconds. Since it uses 3 charges, you can't just keep using it repeatedly in order to make sure it's on, the best you can do is use it at the 90 second mark - which means it could have been down for up to 20 seconds. You're talking about a roughly 25% downtime, which is really high. And that's how it works for almost all debuffs BST can use.

Quote:
And with the addition of the new armor and weapons, we're getting closer and closer to real hybrid setups that don't sacrifice too much of the master DPS for the sake of the pet.

At the same time, the benefits seem really wonky. Pet white damage is difficult to cap, and the pets best capable of doing real damage with the auto attacks or WSs are also the pets that lack the debuffs we want to apply. And even if we did so, we seem to at most be adding another 1 handed sword swing in damage to the output, hardly anything to glorify
Pet base damage is closer to that of a dagger, and on top of that, pet TP gain largely doesn't matter, since any TP under 1000 is wasted. Because of that, hybrid setups are largely counterproductive since they mean increased TP feed, and sacrificing your own damage by using hybrid gear, for tiny increases in pet damage. It's never worth it.

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I'd really enjoy seeing how well, say, the fly's AOE damage is in W3, but losing -25MDB or the def down in no way seems worthwhile for a pet that might do some decent damage.
If you have an Idris GEO doing Malaise, you get at least -45 MDB already, more if using BoG/EA, and cap is at -50 (jobs with MDB traits would need a bit more, but they're not overly common). With good gear you might be able to pull off 15~18k with Malaise, but you probably wouldn't have enough magic accuracy to hit those numbers reliably.

And if it's about losing the 25% DEF down, let somebody else use Armor Break or Ageha. Longer duration, less random, more reliable.

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BST feels so much more useful and better to play than it used to, don't get me wrong.
To me it feels clunkier than ever. We're simultaneously expected to keep our fet focused on the same target as us, not just for Tandem traits, but to keep it near us in order to be in range for JA usage. Yet, the pet will happily run off when hit by an AoE, requiring us to waste time on JA delay using heel and fight. If the mob moves? Same thing, we have to pay far more attention to positioning than most other jobs. The way the pet acts, and the range reduction and traits we received are just completely at odds with each other. If they want us to melee, forcing us to suffer through 4 seconds of JA delay every time the pet or target moves is not the way to do it.

And the things the job can do are simply not worth bringing it for. Poor damage, unreliable debuffs, lack of good hybrid pet DT gear. There are just too many things that are holding the job back.
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By SimonSes 2021-02-23 04:46:55
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mostlycatless said: »
The problem with these debuffs is that they have random durations, and we can't see when they wear off. Corrosive Ooze lasts 70-90 seconds. Since it uses 3 charges, you can't just keep using it repeatedly in order to make sure it's on, the best you can do is use it at the 90 second mark - which means it could have been down for up to 20 seconds. You're talking about a roughly 25% downtime, which is really high. And that's how it works for almost all debuffs BST can use.

Are you sure about that? I know you cant see that you applied debuffs (same for any debuffs applied alongside something that does damage), but in every other instances of this happening (BLU spells for example), it is visible in chat when effect wears off.
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By Quetzalcoatl.Falkirk 2021-02-23 04:49:44
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It's a longstanding issue with pet debuffs, yes.
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By shamgi 2021-02-23 15:55:33
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mostlycatless said: »
Have to disagree completely there
First and foremost, did a quick look. Of the jobs out there, the only one with a passive accuracy higher than BST at the moment is Ranger with 73 accuracy from traits(BLU can also achieve this number, to be fair, but BLU can do all sorts of crazy ***). However, Ranger has lower combat skills than BST does, with it's highest being Axe at B-. Let's ignore DEX for a second, because without full gear augments the amount it adds is relatively low(though worth pointing out that BST has a higher cap than RNG does, so it would only help us).

A Ranger holding a doli and nothing else is going to have 761 accuracy, while a BST with the same has 747. However, add in a subjob here of /dnc, and BST now boasts 757. So we're five acc short of the highest accuracy job. Other jobs can get there with job abilities, of course, but in terms of passive accuracy with no extra fuss BST is right near the top.

And yea, I hit the wrong key for our attack bonus, it's 70%, not 90%. Though as both last 9 minutes, it's not super difficult to get them up together: just Unleash, summon each of them, and you get a full nine minute duration on both. The pugil's a bit tougher, sadly, but you can still hit it once or twice to try and get a good duration. Perhaps maintaining them both all of them time is a bit more difficult, but for specific fights, like a W3 boss, it's not difficult at all to have both up.

While you can't directly tell when the debuffs fall off, it's generally fairly easy to spot your damage averages decreasing, or the amount of damage the tank is taking increase. Same with the MDB down, my group almost instantly knows when the debuff has worn off because they see a fairly sizable drop in average damage. So there's really not going to be a full 20 seconds of lag time before you reapply the buff. Also some buffs seem to overwrite themselves in duration, I've gone the entire W3 fight with the bird having it's MDB seemingly on the entire time.

Did some short testing, and my numbers aren't going to be perfect, but pets seem to have a DMG around 170 or so. So that puts them around 190 DMG with our new axe and feet, which is right in the axe territory.

And you're totally ignoring the fact that many NMs often have major resistance to GEO bubbles. Dyna NMs especially have a 75% resistance to bubbles, which means that Idris GEO isn't doing -45, it's doing -11. Even with Bolster, that's only -22, still less than the debuff we provide. I'm not sure to the 15-18k you're talking about, unless you mean Primal Rend damage, in which case you're intentionally low balling it.

And the standard fallback. A huge number of fights in this game are only one monster, where keeping the pet focused on it is simple. The only time this becomes at all an issue is in Dyna, and even then. Wave 1 and Wave 2 groups are often slept(or AOEd down so fast it hardly matters) and Wave 3 only has a couple enemies where this is an issue: SCH, BLM, RDM, and the dagger using mobs are the prime problems, but three of those can be silence and the others aren't so common as to be an issue.

And pet positioning is hardly as big of an issue as people like to claim: we're not playing XIV with positionals. It's not a big deal to keep the pet close to you and engaged on the same mob.

SimonSes said: »
shamgi said: »
I've been able to hit 30k Primals in nearly perfect conditions(I'm only missing the belt at this point), but that's hardly the 80-90k damage COR and RNG can put up in comparison

This is the only thing in your post that sounds misleading. 80-90k by COR is only possible with strong Malaise OR in something like Dynamis Sandoria with mobs taking more damage from magic and ofc with 3000tp. Same for RNG. Without Malaise and without bonus magic damage taken, both COR and RNG probably caps at around 56-60k at 3000tp. Still much more than BST, but not 30k to 90k :P
Also BST lacking damage with Primal is in big part a problem with gear for it. Very good DM augment can push it a lot higher than 30k probably. I need to calculate it I guess.

Checked my parse, I'm averaging around 20k for Primals, while our COR and our RNG average 80k. I am missing the belt, as I said, and I can do a bit better on my augments. Though this is also with me being in the off side party rather than the DPS party, I think I end up near the 30k mark with proper buffs.
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By Asura.Bixbite 2021-02-24 15:47:27
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I got the new BST set I have to say i'm not impressed. I mean I got the new PUP set first and my howling was doing very consistent 20k at 1ktp with just trust buffs on apex. The Raging Fists was also better at higher tp/buffs.
But I don't see the point for pup as master only DD since you might as well just bring monk. Since the automaton doesn't really add meaningful support to justify its tp feeding. BST pet at least has the strongest defense down in the game since Geo is nerfed.

When trying the BST Gletti Set the non decimation weaponskills are still weak at lower tp even with +20% attack and slug debuff. There seems to be some fluctuation of the numbers for decimation.
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By SimonSes 2021-02-24 16:05:56
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Asura.Bixbite said: »
I got the new BST set I have to say i'm not impressed. I mean I got the new PUP set first and my howling was doing very consistent 20k at 1ktp with just trust buffs on apex. The Raging Fists was also better at higher tp/buffs.
But I don't see the point for pup as master only DD since you might as well just bring monk. Since the automaton doesn't really add meaningful support to justify its tp feeding. BST pet at least has the strongest defense down in the game since Geo is nerfed.

When trying the BST Gletti Set the non decimation weaponskills are still weak at lower tp even with +20% attack and slug debuff. There seems to be some fluctuation of the numbers for decimation.

Not all sets are made to shine in trust buff situation. Gleti's require capped attack to shine offensively. Mpaca set is more of a set that works with low and high buff scenario. Both sets are also not BST and PUP sets, but multijob sets, so instead of looking at them as whole set or nothing, you can just pick few pieces that works for different things.
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By Shiva.Flowen 2021-02-24 16:13:51
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Has anyone done much evisceration testing on bst?

With the new gear, I was thinking something like this:

ItemSet 378286

I havent done any calculations but at a glance this could be really potent lol
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By SimonSes 2021-02-24 16:30:40
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shamgi said: »
A Ranger holding a doli and nothing else is going to have 761 accuracy, while a BST with the same has 747. However, add in a subjob here of /dnc, and BST now boasts 757. So we're five acc short of the highest accuracy job. Other jobs can get there with job abilities, of course, but in terms of passive accuracy with no extra fuss BST is right near the top.

You are missing DRG and DNC. Both having higher accuracy and truly passive too (not linked with pet attacking the same target).

shamgi said: »
Checked my parse, I'm averaging around 20k for Primals, while our COR and our RNG average 80k. I am missing the belt, as I said, and I can do a bit better on my augments. Though this is also with me being in the off side party rather than the DPS party, I think I end up near the 30k mark with proper buffs.

You are talking about some specific scenario. Probably wave 3 boss of something. Where cor is doing Leaden with 2* dark weather, rngs getting light weather from /sch and both riding super buffs from SP abilities, while you are doing light damage Ws in double dark weather and without buffs. I will try to calculate Primal Rend damage tomorrow, but I'm almost sure its at worst half of Leaden damage, not 30%.
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By Asura.Sirris 2021-02-24 17:32:13
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Asura.Bixbite said: »
I got the new BST set I have to say i'm not impressed. I mean I got the new PUP set first and my howling was doing very consistent 20k at 1ktp with just trust buffs on apex. The Raging Fists was also better at higher tp/buffs.
But I don't see the point for pup as master only DD since you might as well just bring monk. Since the automaton doesn't really add meaningful support to justify its tp feeding. BST pet at least has the strongest defense down in the game since Geo is nerfed.

When trying the BST Gletti Set the non decimation weaponskills are still weak at lower tp even with +20% attack and slug debuff. There seems to be some fluctuation of the numbers for decimation.

Legs and feet are great for different reasons. Body is going to be amazing for Decimation at capped augments whenever you can cap attack (and unlike the other jobs on Gleti's BST is not a low-attack job!) I'm pretty happy with the set.
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By shamgi 2021-02-24 18:15:55
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SimonSes said: »
shamgi said: »
A Ranger holding a doli and nothing else is going to have 761 accuracy, while a BST with the same has 747. However, add in a subjob here of /dnc, and BST now boasts 757. So we're five acc short of the highest accuracy job. Other jobs can get there with job abilities, of course, but in terms of passive accuracy with no extra fuss BST is right near the top.

You are missing DRG and DNC. Both having higher accuracy and truly passive too (not linked with pet attacking the same target).

shamgi said: »
Checked my parse, I'm averaging around 20k for Primals, while our COR and our RNG average 80k. I am missing the belt, as I said, and I can do a bit better on my augments. Though this is also with me being in the off side party rather than the DPS party, I think I end up near the 30k mark with proper buffs.

You are talking about some specific scenario. Probably wave 3 boss of something. Where cor is doing Leaden with 2* dark weather, rngs getting light weather from /sch and both riding super buffs from SP abilities, while you are doing light damage Ws in double dark weather and without buffs. I will try to calculate Primal Rend damage tomorrow, but I'm almost sure its at worst half of Leaden damage, not 30%.

Not higher than BST. Both DNC and DRG get 35 accuracy from their passives, not the 50 we do.

And I had light weather and some buffs, just not the big ones. But in the main group with buffs I'm hitting 30ks, again, without the belt.
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By SimonSes 2021-02-25 06:53:10
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shamgi said: »
Not higher than BST. Both DNC and DRG get 35 accuracy from their passives, not the 50 we do.

Both DNC and DRG gets +64 accuracy from gifts, while BST only gets 36. So they have few accuracy more even if BST goes /dnc. RNG also gets even more from gifts (70), so its actually 39accuracy ahead of BST/dnc, not 5.
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By Quetzalcoatl.Xilkk 2021-02-25 08:11:04
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shamgi said: »
Not higher than BST. Both DNC and DRG get 35 accuracy from their passives, not the 50 we do.

And I had light weather and some buffs, just not the big ones. But in the main group with buffs I'm hitting 30ks, again, without the belt.

Can you please clarify what your target is?

It seems to be wave 3 dynamis, but are you talking about wave 3 normal mobs, Nm's or the boss? or is it something totally different?

Its hard for me to imagine its that low with aurorastorm. Then again I really haven't taken bst to dynamis lately. wave 3 I'm usually on rune fencer. Meh, I just need to push my bst into my next run and check it out when I have aurora storm up.
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By shamgi 2021-02-25 12:03:31
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SimonSes said: »
shamgi said: »
Not higher than BST. Both DNC and DRG get 35 accuracy from their passives, not the 50 we do.

Both DNC and DRG gets +64 accuracy from gifts, while BST only gets 36. So they have few accuracy more even if BST goes /dnc. RNG also gets even more from gifts (70), so its actually 39accuracy ahead of BST/dnc, not 5.

The ranger comparison is with gifts.

BST: 690 skill(424 A+, 16 merit, 250 Doli) = 621 accuracy, 40 on the axe, 50 from the passive, 36 from gifts + 10 from /dnc = 757 accuracy

RNG: 654 skill(388 B-, 16 merits, 250 Doli) = 588 accuracy, 40 on the axe, 73 from traits, 70 from gifts = 771

RNG guide had gifts listed wrong, it's 70, not 60. So we're 14 behind, not 4.

As far as DRG and DNC go, let's see. Using the ambu weapons to be comparable.

DNC and DRG: 588 from skills + 40 from weapon + 35 from traits + 64 from gifts = 760

DRG's a bit more wonky. I'm not factoring in the offhand here, but DRG will fall behind if we do(Utu's 30 ACC, while a lot of the offhands in the running down bring 50) but it also gets more DEX from the ambu weapon and gets a better accuracy progression for that DEX. It's also going to have 10 more from hasso, so with all of that I'm pretty sure it ends up about even.

Though I think we're getting a bit too much into the weeds here. To return to the original point, BST is right around the top of the line in terms of native accuracy.

Quetzalcoatl.Xilkk said: »
shamgi said: »
Not higher than BST. Both DNC and DRG get 35 accuracy from their passives, not the 50 we do.

And I had light weather and some buffs, just not the big ones. But in the main group with buffs I'm hitting 30ks, again, without the belt.

Can you please clarify what your target is?

It seems to be wave 3 dynamis, but are you talking about wave 3 normal mobs, Nm's or the boss? or is it something totally different?

Its hard for me to imagine its that low with aurorastorm. Then again I really haven't taken bst to dynamis lately. wave 3 I'm usually on rune fencer. Meh, I just need to push my bst into my next run and check it out when I have aurora storm up.

Boss specifically. And I might be lowballing it a bit too much, I know my 3ks can get as high as 50-60k. I'm also in the weird spot where my offhand is Mdomo for the MACC for my pet, the new axe should provide much better numbers. I'll do an overall parse today and see what kind of numbers I can get.

And, as I've said my Valor augments aren't exactly knocking it out of the park either. Though I think there's something to be said for BST getting better actual stats on it's gear to support it's magical WSs.
 Asura.Sirris
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By Asura.Sirris 2021-02-25 13:41:03
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SimonSes said: »
You are talking about some specific scenario. Probably wave 3 boss of something. Where cor is doing Leaden with 2* dark weather, rngs getting light weather from /sch and both riding super buffs from SP abilities, while you are doing light damage Ws in double dark weather and without buffs. I will try to calculate Primal Rend damage tomorrow, but I'm almost sure its at worst half of Leaden damage, not 30%.

I'd be interested to see where Primal Rend falls versus Leaden. Even at half damage it's still useful to bring a beastmaster. Stacking CORs for Dyna has diminishing returns and BST brings increased survivability for the alliance as well as increased physical and magical damage (and millions of HP off of the wave 3 boss). The problem is the gearing. You need DM augments to make this work and you need macc and -meva debuffs.
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By shamgi 2021-02-25 15:33:13
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Asura.Sirris said: »
SimonSes said: »
You are talking about some specific scenario. Probably wave 3 boss of something. Where cor is doing Leaden with 2* dark weather, rngs getting light weather from /sch and both riding super buffs from SP abilities, while you are doing light damage Ws in double dark weather and without buffs. I will try to calculate Primal Rend damage tomorrow, but I'm almost sure its at worst half of Leaden damage, not 30%.

I'd be interested to see where Primal Rend falls versus Leaden. Even at half damage it's still useful to bring a beastmaster. Stacking CORs for Dyna has diminishing returns and BST brings increased survivability for the alliance as well as increased physical and magical damage (and millions of HP off of the wave 3 boss). The problem is the gearing. You need DM augments to make this work and you need macc and -meva debuffs.

Oh, half the reason the CORs and RNG are hitting the damage they are in my setup is because I'm bringing my BST. And yea, I've still trying to get the setup moves worked out, but being able to throw out both slug debuffs at the start and keeping the bird debuff on the boss is a huge deal. I guess it's sounded like I've been down on my BST a bit as far as the damage goes, but bringing it was what pushed us into killing the W3 boss, rather than just getting it almost dead. It's felt really damn good, at this point I'm billions and billions of gil deep into my BST and I'm finally getting to really justify those costs, haha.
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By Quetzalcoatl.Xilkk 2021-02-26 03:35:19
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50~60k sounds more like what I would expect with good gear, mdb down and aurorastorm.

Then again I'm used to always using TP Bonus Fernagu in Offhand.
but hey if you have full brd and corsair buffs, getting 2k tp should be pretty fast w/ Agwu offhand.

Responding to an earlier question:
I Imagine Purulent Ooze damage would ofcourse count towards the Mask filling up just fine. A full kill only fills up 80% of the mask. The Max HP down 10% is only a temporary effect. when it wears off the hp is reduced. I think thats all that matters.
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By Felgarr 2021-02-26 08:13:20
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Quetzalcoatl.Xilkk said: »
50~60k sounds more like what I would expect with good gear, mdb down and aurorastorm.

Then again I'm used to always using TP Bonus Fernagu in Offhand.
but hey if you have full brd and corsair buffs, getting 2k tp should be pretty fast w/ Agwu offhand.

Responding to an earlier question:
I Imagine Purulent Ooze damage would ofcourse count towards the Mask filling up just fine. A full kill only fills up 80% of the mask. The Max HP down 10% is only a temporary effect. when it wears off the hp is reduced. I think thats all that matters.

Yup. Mask bar goes up a good chunk about 10%. (I think the mask bar itself is equal to 1 full HP bar of the disjoined boss).
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By Fenrir.Skarwind 2021-02-26 23:01:41
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So regarding the Wave 3 NMs. Once max HP wears off and it's HP drops, it actually counts toward mask progress which is a relief.

I did have to 1 HR to land it, and I used a Pangu/SU4 Offhand during this to boost macc as high as possible.
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By shamgi 2021-02-27 13:08:58
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Fenrir.Skarwind said: »
So regarding the Wave 3 NMs. Once max HP wears off and it's HP drops, it actually counts toward mask progress which is a relief.

I did have to 1 HR to land it, and I used a Pangu/SU4 Offhand during this to boost macc as high as possible.

I've been using Run Wild alongside Unleash, myself. Also, I ask our Bard for Water Threon., which seems to help a lot.
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