GMOs: "Allergic To Science: Proteins And Allergens

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GMOs: "Allergic to Science: proteins and allergens
 Cerberus.Pleebo
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By Cerberus.Pleebo 2013-06-19 18:05:55
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The Irish potato famine. Lack of genetic diversity in the potato crops due to clonal planting practices left that entire country's crop extremely susceptible.

But monoculture isn't really a problem restricted to GMO crops.
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 Fenrir.Sylow
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By Fenrir.Sylow 2013-06-19 18:25:12
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Cerberus.Tikal said: »
What piqued my interest was mutation breeding. Saturating something in radiation sounds hilariously dangerous. It's so campy, I don't even think a C-rated horror movie would use it as a plot device.



I did it for a science fair project in middle school!
 Caitsith.Mahayaya
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By Caitsith.Mahayaya 2013-06-19 18:26:47
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The biggest problem I have is that I feel we don't know enough about genetics to properly change it. Yes, we may be able to properly change the plant to what we want, but it may not be what's actually good for us. Example, companies put out multi-vitamins, but few people are aware that your body simply can't absorb all of it at once - need fats to help absorb it - and you end up pissing half the stuff away.

There are just too many variables involved in making proper foods to just "jump right in". Half of it is the plant, the other half is what your body needs and the proportions and proper mixes of such. Natural evolution and human-selected evolution is slow enough to have done a decent job of this, but at the rate GMO "evolution" takes place we'll probably end up missing some seemingly minor details that were very important.

Another big thing, probably one of the biggest things, is what someone already mentioned. Money-seeking corporations getting involved instead of a pure goal of just bettering human nutrition.
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 Fenrir.Sylow
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By Fenrir.Sylow 2013-06-19 18:42:32
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When it comes to practical solutions to large-scale problems, a well-incentivized and appropriately regulated corporation and/or an appropriately interested military are the best bet, not a benevolent nonprofit.
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 Leviathan.Kaparu
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By Leviathan.Kaparu 2013-06-19 18:49:31
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And I promise you, left to "natural evolution", countless more humans will die than if we run into manufactured(and reversible) hiccups along the way
 Caitsith.Mahayaya
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By Caitsith.Mahayaya 2013-06-19 18:50:12
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Fenrir.Sylow said: »
When it comes to practical solutions to large-scale problems, a well-incentivized and appropriately regulated corporation and/or an appropriately interested military are the best bet, not a benevolent nonprofit.

What problem? Proper human nutrition or making money from seed sales? They are not one in the same.

Corporations are good at meeting a demand, sure. But the human body is still much too complex for us. A mere 100 years ago, a single person's lifetime, we didn't even have computers. Now we want to make genetic changes to our life source when we don't even know how to fix acne?

I just don't think GMO should be public mass market yet. I think it came before its time and it will bite us in the *** in the long run.
 Leviathan.Kaparu
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By Leviathan.Kaparu 2013-06-19 18:53:37
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That's a pretty bold(and just generally overreaching) statement
 Bahamut.Fistandantilus
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By Bahamut.Fistandantilus 2013-06-19 19:12:52
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Fenrir.Sylow said: »
When it comes to practical solutions to large-scale problems, a well-incentivized and appropriately regulated corporation and/or an appropriately interested military are the best bet, not a benevolent nonprofit.

LOL @ appropriately regulated corporations. GL with that.
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 Valefor.Applebottoms
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By Valefor.Applebottoms 2013-06-19 19:14:30
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Caitsith.Mahayaya said: »
Fenrir.Sylow said: »
When it comes to practical solutions to large-scale problems, a well-incentivized and appropriately regulated corporation and/or an appropriately interested military are the best bet, not a benevolent nonprofit.

What problem? Proper human nutrition or making money from seed sales? They are not one in the same.

Corporations are good at meeting a demand, sure. But the human body is still much too complex for us. A mere 100 years ago, a single person's lifetime, we didn't even have computers. Now we want to make genetic changes to our life source when we don't even know how to fix acne?

Because for 40 dollars a month, teenagers and adults can be as vain as ever.

Anyways, it's kinda funny what people will pay for. I've used that stuff (brother bought it, and they kept sending him more when he didn't need it so I got a month's supply for free) and the only way to keep the acne away is to keep using it.. FOREVER. There's no cure for it. It comes back. You're just born with what you got.

I just use my Irish Spring body wash on my face when I shower. Keeps my face clear enough and better than spending 40 bucks a month.

And for those of you who are wondering.. yes, I'm a woman and I like Irish Spring. Keeps me clean and smells heavenly. :D
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 Fenrir.Sylow
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By Fenrir.Sylow 2013-06-19 19:16:52
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well, you basically have 3 choices:

1) GMO
2) Continued use of what amounts to worse and worse pesticides as we attempt to combat an evolutionary force that is quite frankly much "smarter" than we are
) Rely on agricultural methods that are unable to support current human biomass, perhaps we can come up with soylent green a bit early though?

It's really that bad. We are at the point where we have to do something, and privileged westerners masturbating too hard to the organic food industry's massive argumentum ad naturum titty show are stupidly throwing wrenches into a machine that looks to solve roblems for everyone.

The organics industry is *** smart though. Giant crock of ***, when I got my commercial pesticide applicator's license I was frankly shocked by the horrifying ***that growers can do and still be "organic" or "all natural."
 Valefor.Applebottoms
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By Valefor.Applebottoms 2013-06-19 19:22:33
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Fenrir.Sylow said: »
well, you basically have 3 choices:

1) GMO
2) Continued use of what amounts to worse and worse pesticides as we attempt to combat an evolutionary force that is quite frankly much "smarter" than we are
) Rely on agricultural methods that are unable to support current human biomass, perhaps we can come up with soylent green a bit early though?

It's really that bad. We are at the point where we have to do something, and privileged westerners masturbating too hard to the organic food industry's massive argumentum ad naturum titty show are stupidly throwing wrenches into a machine that looks to solve roblems for everyone.

The organics industry is *** smart though. Giant crock of ***, when I got my commercial pesticide applicator's license I was frankly shocked by the horrifying ***that growers can do and still be "organic" or "all natural."
That's why I don't buy "organic". It's a scam where they charge 2x the price for something that really isn't all that better than the lesser expensive item, sometimes being worse. Then again, living in 'Murica, not surprised how many people feed into it. :|
 Fenrir.Sylow
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By Fenrir.Sylow 2013-06-19 19:25:06
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Organic largely means "we throw out a larger % of the crop because it's not pretty enough to put on supermarket shelves."
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 Bahamut.Fistandantilus
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By Bahamut.Fistandantilus 2013-06-19 19:26:52
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What would help immensely with our food shortage is if people stopped having over 9000 kids per family. 2 maximum should be mandatory, and if you want more you should have to pay a tax. Also I would be in favor of mandatory birth control until age 25. If you want a child before 25 you should need to get a license to prove you are stable, and reliable enough to be a parent.

That might sound harsh, but as stated in this thread we are rapidly approaching a serious global food crisis. It might not feel like it if you live in one of the super power countries, because you don't go to bed hungry at night. However that just isn't par for the course everywhere in the world. There are 7 billion people on this planet. In 1860 there was something like 200 million. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to see an incoming problem.

PS: Irish Spring is the ***!
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 Ragnarok.Sekundes
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By Ragnarok.Sekundes 2013-06-19 19:59:50
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Everything that is organic isn't a rip off scam just as much as not all organic is really organic like people think it is. There are people who actually do want to provide a good product but sadly there are many more who just use it as a method to rake in extra money by taking advantage of people.

But if you are going to go that route, you need a supplier you can trust who has fairly transparent processes. I get eggs from my mom's chickens for example. Being actually organic is very costly and results in lower yields and more issues with pests and weeds. But there are some benefits to it so it does have a market but I do agree, that market is riddled with scams.
 Leviathan.Kaparu
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By Leviathan.Kaparu 2013-06-19 20:02:53
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I'd like a source on benefits
 Ragnarok.Sekundes
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By Ragnarok.Sekundes 2013-06-19 20:07:43
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Lack of bovine growth chemicals in milks?
 Leviathan.Kaparu
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By Leviathan.Kaparu 2013-06-19 20:12:06
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That isn't a source on a benefit
 Cerberus.Mirril
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By Cerberus.Mirril 2013-06-19 20:20:26
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After my initial documentary-fueled fear of GMO's subsided and I was able to actually think about the science behind GM plants/animals, my only concerns are:

Suicide genes.

Gene patenting destroying seed-saving.

Cross-pollination of GMO to heirloom and non-gmo strains.

GMO animals out-competing their natural counterparts if they escape into the wild (oh noes, watch out for those invasive glo-fish!)
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 Ragnarok.Sekundes
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By Ragnarok.Sekundes 2013-06-19 20:25:25
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Leviathan.Kaparu said: »
That isn't a source on a benefit
If I get solid time to find a respectable source that you'd approve of, I will but I don't have time atm.

But curious, do you feel that the growth hormones we pump in to all our animals is good for humans?
 Leviathan.Kaparu
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By Leviathan.Kaparu 2013-06-19 20:30:54
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Intuition is not science. I'm not in a hurry for a source, but you have no case without one
 Ragnarok.Sekundes
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By Ragnarok.Sekundes 2013-06-19 20:52:25
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I wouldn't go purely on intuition anyway, but the sources I've read in the past I don't have currently so I can't link them. I figured with how popular a topic it is, you may have your own opinions about it is all.
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By Lakshmi.Saevel 2013-06-19 21:22:28
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Bahamut.Fistandantilus said: »
What would help immensely with our food shortage is if people stopped having over 9000 kids per family. 2 maximum should be mandatory, and if you want more you should have to pay a tax. Also I would be in favor of mandatory birth control until age 25. If you want a child before 25 you should need to get a license to prove you are stable, and reliable enough to be a parent.

That might sound harsh, but as stated in this thread we are rapidly approaching a serious global food crisis. It might not feel like it if you live in one of the super power countries, because you don't go to bed hungry at night. However that just isn't par for the course everywhere in the world. There are 7 billion people on this planet. In 1860 there was something like 200 million. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to see an incoming problem.

PS: Irish Spring is the ***!

Your wrong. There is no population problem in developed nations. Actually there is no population problem on the planet as a whole, merely a space utilization problem. Everyone clusters around the same geographic area and creates the illusion of overpopulation.

Anyway, what your recommending is genocide. So why don't you practice what you preach and rid the world of at least one person.
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By somebodyloved 2013-06-19 21:39:18
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ooo, I volunteer to get rid of one person.

I pick Saevel as the person I will get rid of.




















































































































 Caitsith.Mahayaya
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By Caitsith.Mahayaya 2013-06-19 21:46:53
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I don't think it's considered genocide if you never have the kids in the first place. And I doubt that space is the only resource being talked about here.

A life never born and someone killing themselves are two different things entirely. He's not proposing people get slaughtered to free up room and resources but rather stopping the exponential growth that is quite obviously going to be an issue whether you like it or not.

While I don't agree with something like that being imposed on people's freedoms, there's also a necessity of life for the whole that makes the rights of the individual less important I suppose.
 Ragnarok.Sekundes
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By Ragnarok.Sekundes 2013-06-19 23:19:49
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Benefits to soil and quality of food:
http://horttech.ashspublications.org/content/17/4/422.full

Benefits to biodiversity and local ecosystems:
http://171.66.127.192/content/1/4/431.full

Benefits to nutritional value and content of food:
http://europepmc.org/abstract/MED/20359265

http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0052988

These were some of the reasonably easy ones to fine. Quality is probably lacking since I no longer have a college through which I can get free access to higher level papers. Many of the links to the ones I wanted required payment and I'm too broke to spend several hundred dollars on a few papers ^^;

I think some of what I got is decent though. I'm not expert on judging studies processes and guidelines though, I can only assume on some things.

I will say though that it's rather easy to find documentation on either side but on average I was able to find more on the benefits rather than articles stating null value differences and exceptionally few claiming organics were actually worse than their conventional counterparts. I'll also add that some studies are rather difficult to do since there are still some unknowns in the mix.

Minimally, the benefits are:

Marginally better nutrition.
Better taste.
Less toxins.
Increased sustainability and improved land quality.
Positive effect on regional bio-diversity.

This isn't to say that conventional methods can't obtain similar results or GMO's can't make amazing superfoods that contain everything we lack but I don't think those goals are the first priority for these types.
 Bahamut.Fistandantilus
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By Bahamut.Fistandantilus 2013-06-20 00:20:40
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Lakshmi.Saevel said: »
Bahamut.Fistandantilus said: »
What would help immensely with our food shortage is if people stopped having over 9000 kids per family. 2 maximum should be mandatory, and if you want more you should have to pay a tax. Also I would be in favor of mandatory birth control until age 25. If you want a child before 25 you should need to get a license to prove you are stable, and reliable enough to be a parent.

That might sound harsh, but as stated in this thread we are rapidly approaching a serious global food crisis. It might not feel like it if you live in one of the super power countries, because you don't go to bed hungry at night. However that just isn't par for the course everywhere in the world. There are 7 billion people on this planet. In 1860 there was something like 200 million. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to see an incoming problem.

PS: Irish Spring is the ***!

Your wrong. There is no population problem in developed nations. Actually there is no population problem on the planet as a whole, merely a space utilization problem. Everyone clusters around the same geographic area and creates the illusion of overpopulation.

Anyway, what your recommending is genocide. So why don't you practice what you preach and rid the world of at least one person.

A: If you can't grasp the intricacies of your, yours, and you're that is strike one.

B: You apparently don't understand the definition of genocide. Maybe you should look it up.

C: It's fairly obvious from your comments that you have no clue what is being discussed. People "clustering around the same geographic areas" is neither the issue nor is it creating an "illusion of overpopulation" as you say. The issue is feeding everyone. Not where people choose to congregate.

The fact is people all over the world go to bed hungry at night. Children go to bed hungry. Congratulations on living in a country where that isn't as prevalent compared to less fortunate parts of the globe. By the year 2050 there will be 9 billion people on the face of the Earth. 200 million in 1860. 7 billion in 2013. 9 billion by 2050. Maybe a genius like yourself can see a pattern here. Or maybe not in which case enjoy your ignorance. I hear it's bliss.
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 Lakshmi.Saevel
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By Lakshmi.Saevel 2013-06-20 05:20:40
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Bahamut.Fistandantilus said: »
Lakshmi.Saevel said: »
Bahamut.Fistandantilus said: »
What would help immensely with our food shortage is if people stopped having over 9000 kids per family. 2 maximum should be mandatory, and if you want more you should have to pay a tax. Also I would be in favor of mandatory birth control until age 25. If you want a child before 25 you should need to get a license to prove you are stable, and reliable enough to be a parent.

That might sound harsh, but as stated in this thread we are rapidly approaching a serious global food crisis. It might not feel like it if you live in one of the super power countries, because you don't go to bed hungry at night. However that just isn't par for the course everywhere in the world. There are 7 billion people on this planet. In 1860 there was something like 200 million. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to see an incoming problem.

PS: Irish Spring is the ***!

Your wrong. There is no population problem in developed nations. Actually there is no population problem on the planet as a whole, merely a space utilization problem. Everyone clusters around the same geographic area and creates the illusion of overpopulation.

Anyway, what your recommending is genocide. So why don't you practice what you preach and rid the world of at least one person.

A: If you can't grasp the intricacies of your, yours, and you're that is strike one.

B: You apparently don't understand the definition of genocide. Maybe you should look it up.

C: It's fairly obvious from your comments that you have no clue what is being discussed. People "clustering around the same geographic areas" is neither the issue nor is it creating an "illusion of overpopulation" as you say. The issue is feeding everyone. Not where people choose to congregate.

The fact is people all over the world go to bed hungry at night. Children go to bed hungry. Congratulations on living in a country where that isn't as prevalent compared to less fortunate parts of the globe. By the year 2050 there will be 9 billion people on the face of the Earth. 200 million in 1860. 7 billion in 2013. 9 billion by 2050. Maybe a genius like yourself can see a pattern here. Or maybe not in which case enjoy your ignorance. I hear it's bliss.

Why are you still breathing? Weren't you worried about overpopulation and people having too many kids?

Seriously stop being a hypocrite and practice what you preach.
 Bahamut.Fistandantilus
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By Bahamut.Fistandantilus 2013-06-20 10:58:25
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Well I guess you told me! I concede. In the face of your superior intellect I am truly humbled. Please don't let us take up anymore of your valuable time. I'm sure your have to get back to the important matters in your life. 1st person shooters, and fried sticks of butter are awaiting your return with bated breath (vs the normal heavy mouth breathing). Enjoy!
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 Lakshmi.Saevel
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By Lakshmi.Saevel 2013-06-20 11:15:17
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Bahamut.Fistandantilus said: »
Well I guess you told me! I concede. In the face of your superior intellect I am truly humbled. Please don't let us take up anymore of your valuable time. I'm sure your have to get back to the important matters in your life. 1st person shooters, and fried sticks of butter are awaiting your return with bated breath (vs the normal heavy mouth breathing). Enjoy!


When you've had the moment to pull your head out of your 5th point of contact you'll realize the food crisis isn't a supply problem but a distribution problem. There is plenty of food in the world, more then we'll ever need. The problem is getting it from point of production to point of consumption. Third world nations simply do not have the infrastructure in place to efficiently distribute the food. We're forced to do silly things like fly it in on helicopter which artificially jacks up the cost per unit.

Following your mentality and killing off a third of the worlds population (first world nations are already at your two child per family average, Japan is actually shrinking) won't do anything to solve the distribution problem.

Now why don't you get your fat a$$ off the computer and clean your brain out with bleach to get rid of all the incorrect trash present. Once properly cleaned of all the propaganda you can then proceed to learn the root cause of the ills of the world rather then repeat the brainwashing you've been exposed to.
 Cerberus.Eugene
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By Cerberus.Eugene 2013-06-20 11:27:40
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Lakshmi.Saevel said: »
isn't a supply problem but a distribution problem. There is plenty of food in the world, more then we'll ever need.
You do probably recognize this, but these two statements, as they stand, are fundamentally at odds. Supply and distribution are intrinsically linked. Essentially there is a shortage of supply at local levels, because the distribution channels are inadequate.

And while I'm not recommending it as a course of action, cutting the amount of necessary consumption could help alleviate some of the distribution problem. You could also look at it in terms of local supply is too low. Or that necessary supply of nutrient rich food is too low. However, it is a distribution problem in the sense that if you take the aggregate production in the world, and the aggregate population, there is/can be enough production to meet basic caloric needs.

That's not to say that we could produce the same levels of nutrient rich food for the entire world. There certainly isn't at this time enough supply of say meat, to adequately service every individual in this world.

GMOs in at very least in plants plants could produce something like a drought resistant crop that could help solve the distribution problem by providing local supply in drought prone areas.

Also, flinging insults doesn't make you sound any smarter. It hurts your ability to have any reasonable discourse as well.
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