Endeavoring To Awaken --A Guide To Rune Fencer

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Endeavoring to Awaken --A Guide to Rune Fencer
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 Caitsith.Mahayaya
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By Caitsith.Mahayaya 2018-11-06 11:40:44
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How effective is the parry aug on cape anyway? Is it as good as Inquarta? I've got PDT 10% currently since it makes max DT really easy, but would switch to parry if worthwhile.

Edit: stupid phone switching from parry to party
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By Boshi 2018-11-06 11:41:16
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assuming fern 5/10
lust str+31 dex+14 accatt-10 ta-2 wsd-1.

~~

Parry is like inquart, it's like have 2.5inquar, very effective.
 Ragnarok.Martel
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By Ragnarok.Martel 2018-11-06 11:50:33
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Boshi said: »
Parry is like inquart, it's like have 2.5inquar, very effective.
Just a heads up, but SE fed us a crock story about Inquartata gear potency. It's 1:1 Inq:Parry rate. Not 1:2 like they stated. The BGwiki page on inquartata has references to the testing.

So the +5 parry on the cape would effectively be 5 Inquartata.

Although, I've yet to actually see any testing to confirm that the parry augment functions the same way as Inquartata, in the sense that it's added after the floor is applied, effectively ignoring mob level.
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 Caitsith.Mahayaya
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By Caitsith.Mahayaya 2018-11-06 12:17:16
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Ragnarok.Martel said: »
Boshi said: »
Parry is like inquart, it's like have 2.5inquar, very effective.
Just a heads up, but SE fed us a crock story about Inquartata gear potency. It's 1:1 Inq:Parry rate. Not 1:2 like they stated. The BGwiki page on inquartata has references to the testing.

So the +5 parry on the cape would effectively be 5 Inquartata.

Although, I've yet to actually see any testing to confirm that the parry augment functions the same way as Inquartata, in the sense that it's added after the floor is applied, effectively ignoring mob level.

So that would mean Inquarta/Parry is less effective and reaching DT is higher priority if applied after the floor? Say for instance 68% PDT +5 extra parry vs 75% PDT less 5 parry in typical terms of damage mitigation on 135+ mobs?
 Siren.Kyte
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By Siren.Kyte 2018-11-06 12:18:42
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You should be capping PDT regardless. The only difference is how you do it.
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 Caitsith.Mahayaya
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By Caitsith.Mahayaya 2018-11-06 12:36:45
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Ah, then I'll keep the 10% PDT. Rather have Runeist's body than Futhark body in full tank set, seems to have a lot more meva.

ItemSet 362814
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 Ragnarok.Martel
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By Ragnarok.Martel 2018-11-06 14:08:27
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Caitsith.Mahayaya said: »
Ragnarok.Martel said: »
Boshi said: »
Parry is like inquart, it's like have 2.5inquar, very effective.
Just a heads up, but SE fed us a crock story about Inquartata gear potency. It's 1:1 Inq:Parry rate. Not 1:2 like they stated. The BGwiki page on inquartata has references to the testing.

So the +5 parry on the cape would effectively be 5 Inquartata.

Although, I've yet to actually see any testing to confirm that the parry augment functions the same way as Inquartata, in the sense that it's added after the floor is applied, effectively ignoring mob level.

So that would mean Inquarta/Parry is less effective and reaching DT is higher priority if applied after the floor? Say for instance 68% PDT +5 extra parry vs 75% PDT less 5 parry in typical terms of damage mitigation on 135+ mobs?
Always cap PDT first. Then worry about parry.

What I'm referring to here is how inquartata basically ignores mob level.

Take adding parry skill for example(And no don't actually use parry skill. ever.) If your base parry rate was below the floor, you'd still see a 5% parry rate due to the 5% floor. But if you started adding parry skill, you'd see no change at all until your base rate vs the mob catches up to the floor.

It's possible the same thing could happen with the parry+ augment. If it builds from your base parry rate, then you might not see any increase at all on high enough level mobs.

Whereas Inquartata is applied after the floor. So even if your base parry rate would be below the floor, your Inq+ still builds from the 5% floor. And if your base is above the floor, then it builds from the current parry rate. So it doesn't matter how high level the mobs is, you always get the full effect of your Inquartata.

So the value of the parry+ aug against high level enemies may depends somewhat on if it behaves the same as Inquartata or not. And I don't think it's a given that it will. Take shield block+ gear for example. Block+ is applied before the floor. So when block rate is below the floor it's possible to get no effect at all from your block+ gear until you 'catch up" to the floor. So there's other precedents for this sort of mechanic and Parry+ could very well work the same way.

Basically, the parry+ augment needs to be tested.
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By Autocast 2018-11-07 20:35:52
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Is "Resist Charm"+x or "Resist Paralyze"+x just Meva for that specific status ailment or an increase in tenacity type resist? Like for dealing with charm would I be better stacking Meva or "Resist charm"+x in a given slot?

Also was wondering if anyone could post what kind of situations they use which specific tank set in, as well as maybe post the sets. I see all sorts of sets being posted but curious as to what situations you find specific ones necessary.

Like I know there is the standard "Inquartata" set with cap PDT/MDT using turms+1 hands/feet and emp+1 legs, which seems to be most peoples go to for most situations.

Where do you find yourself using a Meva oriented set, or say a status resist+ oriented set over said Meva set, Especially given how it seems you have to give up some DT at the cost of much higher Meva (is doing so worth it or always maintain caps?)

Just trying to get a better grasp of run outside of DD/Hybrid tanking.
 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2018-11-08 03:54:56
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There has been a pretty big research by players on that topic recently.
If I remember correctly Resist+ stat is a separate check from the Meva+ one, which includes the bonus from Elemental Resistance, which is basically the same but only applies to a single element and everything related to it.

Also it seems Resist+ stat has a reduced effect (cut in half?) when applied against Notorious Monsters, instead of normal targets.



Basically this means that when comparing items in the same slot, Meva+ is, on a point to point basis, more effective than Resist+.
To make a simple example: Meva+10 is more powerful than Resist+10.
Since they are separate checks though it also means that the more you approach the "cap" of Meva (supposing there is a cap? 95% chance? Whatever it is?) the more adding Resist+ will be attractive.

Duh... I think. Hopefully someone more competent than me will clarify and/or provide link to that very interesting discussion concerning Meva+ and Resist+
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 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2018-11-08 03:58:47
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Also I seem to recall that there are some things that ignore the Resist+ stat, but still are effected by Meva+
 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2018-11-08 07:36:59
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Asura.Sechs said: »
Basically this means that when comparing items in the same slot, Meva+ is, on a point to point basis, more effective than Resist+.
To make a simple example: Meva+10 is more powerful than Resist+10.

Not quite, MEVD and Resist Status work differently. MEVD is checked multiple times and 2 MEVD = ~1%, it gets more effective if your right at the targets MACC. Resist is checked once and done before anything else is rolled, it's a blanket roll to ignore the effect entirely. This makes Resist a lot like Tenacity, it works no matter what the targets MACC, unfortunately it's nerfed in half on NM's which is where it's most useful.

The real reason we focus on MEVD is that it's effective on all magic based rolls and can be stacked ridiculously high while Resist+ isn't and can't.
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 Asura.Sirtaint
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By Asura.Sirtaint 2018-11-08 12:22:08
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Tanking set
ItemSet 357828

Hybrid set
ItemSet 352465

Turtle set
ItemSet 362849
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By Boshi 2018-11-08 13:40:35
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Edit: Previous post got deleted?


This is just gonna repeat pages 139/140 of this thread over again where everyone facepalm'd you, so to save time for summary:

Boshi said: »
Taint said: »
I cringe when I see Erilaz Leg Guards +1
nope.
Boshi said: »
[..]and really the only swaps here are body and legs, which are independent of each other because you'e not using the body to make up the 2pdt lost from legs.
(which makes me wonder are you just using the body to get the setbonus 15acc?)

Any possible set where these win out as being better for having acc, you might as well have a full out hybrid DD set, in which this set as a whole would do a terrible job.
(I could see flipping the legs for a specific mob to avoid a specific debuff, but that's about all.)

At this rate all this does is feed more TP. If you care about dps you might as well go all out and flip to meghanda+2


Also assuming pdt10 on cape last time you were 3 pdt short of cap.
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By Autocast 2018-11-08 14:16:42
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Not sure what got posted but from the Meva discussion I assume Run should always stack Meva? So never a situation where it's worth using say Emp+1 hands over turms+1?

As for the post above mentioning Meghanda+2 legs, in the context of hybrid DD, I was wondering how people felt about those given they have 0 Meva on them, otherwise amazing stats though.

Switching to a pair of herc legs is a 75 Meva gain, pretty sizeable I would think.

Still curious to as which situations you guys find yourself using a Meva (like turms+1 head, af+3 body, ect) tank set over the more standard set, or a +resist status effect set, and do you make sure to cap out your PDT in said set?
 Leviathan.Isiolia
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By Leviathan.Isiolia 2018-11-08 15:10:49
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Autocast said: »
As for the post above mentioning Meghanda+2 legs, in the context of hybrid DD, I was wondering how people felt about those given they have 0 Meva on them, otherwise amazing stats though.

It's a typo. NQ and +1 have 41 Evasion and 69 Magic Evasion. Per BG Wiki, you can verify the evasion is still actually there on the +2 via /checkparam. So you aren't looking at an Arke type scenario, just an item description that needs to be fixed.

I've usually used MEVA when the primary consideration is status effects rather than straight up damage.
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By Autocast 2018-11-08 15:57:59
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oh cool, don't have to give up meg legs+2 in hybrid then, thanks for the info.
 Asura.Sirtaint
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By Asura.Sirtaint 2018-11-08 16:34:15
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Boshi said: »
Edit: Previous post got deleted?


This is just gonna repeat pages 139/140 of this thread over again where everyone facepalm'd you, so to save time for summary:

Boshi said: »
Taint said: »
I cringe when I see Erilaz Leg Guards +1
nope.
Boshi said: »
[..]and really the only swaps here are body and legs, which are independent of each other because you'e not using the body to make up the 2pdt lost from legs.
(which makes me wonder are you just using the body to get the setbonus 15acc?)

Any possible set where these win out as being better for having acc, you might as well have a full out hybrid DD set, in which this set as a whole would do a terrible job.
(I could see flipping the legs for a specific mob to avoid a specific debuff, but that's about all.)

At this rate all this does is feed more TP. If you care about dps you might as well go all out and flip to meghanda+2


Also assuming pdt10 on cape last time you were 3 pdt short of cap.


Reread 139/140...didn't see any facepalming, actually was decent discussion. And yes I still prefer to hit the mobs, not sure which mobs you are have issues with TP feed. Its not like you left your Epeo at R1 just to avoid adding ACC to it.

Mind posting your set?
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By Boshi 2018-11-08 17:34:59
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Not using empy legs in tanking set is for scrubs.


You upgrade Epeo for it's uses when it is needed for a hybrid set, (or for DDing on stuff like Kin where you need Reso to not making light).
 Asura.Sirtaint
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By Asura.Sirtaint 2018-11-08 17:56:14
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Boshi said: »
Not using empy legs in tanking set is for scrubs.


You upgrade Epeo for it's uses when it is needed for a hybrid set, (or for DDing on stuff like Kin where you need Reso to not making light).

Mind posting your set?

Im asking for your set because 2 inquarta doesn’t seem worth the loss of resist and acc.
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By Autocast 2018-11-08 18:03:41
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Can maintain solid HP values in tanking, hybrid, midcast, precast and enmity sets but all seems to be thrown out the window with how low HP gets in WS sets, given how often we can and do WS on a lot of things,

Just kind of a deal with it situation or do you guys do something about it?
 Asura.Sirtaint
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By Asura.Sirtaint 2018-11-08 20:48:12
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Autocast said: »
Can maintain solid HP values in tanking, hybrid, midcast, precast and enmity sets but all seems to be thrown out the window with how low HP gets in WS sets, given how often we can and do WS on a lot of things,

Just kind of a deal with it situation or do you guys do something about it?


I run a HP toggle for WSs. Keeps me at 3k.
Code
function user_setup()
    state.OffenseMode:options('Normal', 'LowAcc', 'MidAcc', 'MaxAcc')
    state.HybridMode:options('Normal', 'MidPDT', 'MaxPDT')
    state.WeaponskillMode:options('Normal', 'Acc', 'HP')
    state.PhysicalDefenseMode:options('PDT', 'MaxHP', 'Turtle')

    update_combat_form()
    
end
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By Autocast 2018-11-08 21:12:41
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what do you WS in for HP toggle? Assume like Adhemar D head and moonlight rings (guess there would have to be more to maintain 3k, at least outside of escha)?
 Asura.Pergatory
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By Asura.Pergatory 2018-11-09 11:35:25
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Asura.Sirtaint said: »
Boshi said: »
Not using empy legs in tanking set is for scrubs.


You upgrade Epeo for it's uses when it is needed for a hybrid set, (or for DDing on stuff like Kin where you need Reso to not making light).

Mind posting your set?

Im asking for your set because 2 inquarta doesn’t seem worth the loss of resist and acc.
The resist is a wash, empy legs have more magic evasion to make up for the lost resist ailments.

Anyway for me, the empy legs aren't just about the 2 Inquartata, I use them even when not engaged for the +11 enmity. RUN has very low enmity+ in its tanking gear. We can reduce most damage to 0 but we do still take damage sometimes, and enmity+ can help a lot there. Empy feet have enmity+ as well. There's a person in my LS who even uses Kurys Gloves over Turms+1 for tanking.

I'd rather leave damage to the DDs, my 20-30k Dimis aren't going to add anything significant to the kill speed when our WARs are pumping out 80k Upheavals. I firmly believe the tank should not compromise survival for ANY amount of damage as long as there are other DDs putting out steady damage. I'm not there to stroke my ego, I'm there to ensure we never wipe. It's not a boring job either, I'm usually pretty busy without ever engaging at all.

Here's my set, for what it's worth:
ItemSet 348167
The cape has DT-5, as I like having a good bit of DT for things that aren't affected by PDT or MDT. I'm actually 4 PDT over the cap but haven't yet decided how to benefit from that. I was thinking maybe Irenic Strap +1.
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 Asura.Gordel
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By Asura.Gordel 2018-11-12 16:58:33
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At what point does enhancing magic skill on a single item item outweigh phalanx+3? Or even +1
 Shiva.Spynx
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By Shiva.Spynx 2018-11-12 17:32:54
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Based on the formula, you need 28.5 skill for each phalanx +1 damage reduction making it almost never worth to use enhancing skill to increase phalanx potency
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 Asura.Sirtaint
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By Asura.Sirtaint 2018-11-12 17:34:03
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Asura.Gordel said: »
At what point does enhancing magic skill on a single item item outweigh phalanx+3? Or even +1

Phalanx:
Over 300 skill: F = 28 + Floor( (Enhancing Magic Skill - 300.5) / 28.5)

So ~28 skill = 1 point

Edit: Shiva.Spynx BEAT ME!
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