IiPunch - Monk Guide

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 Fenrir.Skarwind
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By Fenrir.Skarwind 2020-06-30 10:05:59
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So I have:
R15 Spharai (great for tanking)
R15 Godhands (Awesome for spike damage)

But lately I've been using Karambits for short fights (HTBF really) or when Impetus up and the results have been good. The TP gain is just insane, and you aren't losing too much DPS using them while in a hybrid/meva set.

With Godhands I feel like I need to use my full DD set to use them efficiently (Maybe this will change when I have more than two pieces of Malig). The fights using Karmabits went a lot quicker just spamming Vsmite/Riding Impetus.

There are really solid H2H and seem to hold their own quite well.

Currently working on Vere but these things are really amazing for the effort required.

Impetus Up I'm using Karambits
Impetus Down/Footwork Up I'm using godhands
 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2020-06-30 10:20:37
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wat D:
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 Fenrir.Skarwind
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By Fenrir.Skarwind 2020-06-30 10:37:54
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Asura.Sechs said: »
wat D:
TLDR:

Karambits are very good
 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2020-06-30 10:41:26
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Yeah but there is no way they are better than R15 Godhands. You could argue with Spharai (I have these and they are not horrible, not great). With Godhands, you should be able to push out a Radiance much stronger than Karambits can dish out. The added SC damage will be significantly more. And HF/RF should be much stronger than Karambit regardless.

It's not just about Impetus. Godhands is a truck no matter which ability is active, you just need to hold onto TP a bit more. Might need to tweak your playstyle a bit to really appreciate them.
 Fenrir.Skarwind
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By Fenrir.Skarwind 2020-06-30 10:58:33
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Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
Yeah but there is no way they are better than R15 Godhands. You could argue with Spharai (I have these and they are not horrible, not great). With Godhands, you should be able to push out a Radiance much stronger than Karambits can dish out. The added SC damage will be significantly more. And HF/RF should be much stronger than Karambit regardless.

It's not just about Impetus. Godhands is a truck no matter which ability is active, you just need to hold onto TP a bit more. Might need to tweak your playstyle a bit to really appreciate them.

With max buffs godhands are much better, yes.

Under-buffed/Solo/Being stuck in meva/dt gear I'm having different results. I dunno.

Trusts just suck so bad.

I'm definitely having Cornelia withdraws right now.
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By Crossbones 2020-06-30 11:29:00
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With low buffs spam normal punch aka howling fist with gh and reap in the lulz.
 Asura.Friedrik
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By Asura.Friedrik 2020-06-30 12:12:37
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It's definitely a playstyle issue. Looking at this in the most rudimentary fashion Godhands has 41 more base damage and 500 TP Bonus means you reach effective TP at around 1500-1700 for the bread and butter weaponskills, as opposed to karambit having to wait for 2000+. That isn't even factoring in what happens with multistepping and the skillchain bonus that will be present with aeonic aftermath.

Godhands in a vacuum (ignoring martial arts) with its 10 STP (present on all attacks including WS) gives 59 TP per swing. Karambit in a vacuum gives 69 TP per swing on a crit (doesn't work on WS) and 46 per swing on a non-crit. That'll be lower for karambit with Bhikku body on during impetus. I'm on my phone and cbf to actually run the numbers.

The numbers just aren't there.
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 Fenrir.Skarwind
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By Fenrir.Skarwind 2020-06-30 12:13:48
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Asura.Friedrik said: »
It's definitely a playstyle issue. Looking at this in the most rudimentary fashion Godhands has 41 more base damage and 500 TP Bonus means you reach effective TP at around 1500-1700 for the bread and butter weaponskills, as opposed to karambit having to wait for 2000+. That isn't even factoring in what happens with multistepping and the skillchain bonus that will be present with aeonic aftermath.

Godhands in a vacuum (ignoring martial arts) with its 10 STP (present on all attacks including WS) gives 59 TP per swing. Karambit in a vacuum gives 69 TP per swing on a crit (doesn't work on WS) and 46 per swing on a non-crit. That'll be lower for karambit with Bhikku body on during impetus. I'm on my phone and cbf to actually run the numbers.

The numbers just aren't there.

Thanks,

I'll have to re-evaluate things. I think the reasons fights are going quicker with ambu h2h is because Im basically stuck with Haste 2, 1x Ulmia march (Trusts dont even wanna give me haste lately..).. and a ballad of all things. I keep missing the self SC window with Godhands while Im riding my hybrid set.

I'm also losing quite a bit of store tp swapping to Kenda+1 for meva/survival.
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2020-06-30 12:37:05
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Skarwind, you are going to need to mediate the haste loss with possibly martial arts in gear. 2x mache earrings+1 won't completely close the gap but it will help with minimal DPS loss. You should be using bhikku body with Impetus anyways, which is an extra 6 Martial Arts. 32 total is a pretty good amount towards increasing your attack speed.

Trust buffs are just unreliable so you have to always account for that when comparing options; I have a similar issue with with ninja when comparing Kikoku vs Heishi. Bard trusts will never keep your haste up full time and the slightest timing issue will make them use paeon or madrigal over March. you just need to make the small gear adjustment for the benefit of your weapon, but Godhands when properly geared for will be better than karambit, especially r15
 Fenrir.Skarwind
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By Fenrir.Skarwind 2020-06-30 12:47:23
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Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
Skarwind, you are going to need to mediate the haste loss with possibly martial arts in gear. 2x mache earrings+1 won't completely close the gap but it will help with minimal DPS loss. You should be using bhikku body with Impetus anyways, which is an extra 6 Martial Arts. 32 total is a pretty good amount towards increasing your attack speed.

Trust buffs are just unreliable so you have to always account for that when comparing options; I have a similar issue with with ninja when comparing Kikoku vs Heishi. Bard trusts will never keep your haste up full time and the slightest timing issue will make them use paeon or madrigal over March. you just need to make the small gear adjustment for the benefit of your weapon, but Godhands when properly geared for will be better than karambit, especially r15


Thanks I'll give that a shot. That is very helpful.

Empy Body swapped in for Impetus

Full DD
Code
    sets.engaged ={
    ammo="Aurgelmir Orb +1",
    head={ name="Adhemar Bonnet +1", augments={'STR+12','DEX+12','Attack+20',}},
    body="Ken. Samue +1",
    hands={ name="Adhemar Wrist. +1", augments={'DEX+12','AGI+12','Accuracy+20',}},
    legs={ name="Hes. Hose +3", augments={'Enhances "Hundred Fists" effect',}},
    feet="Anch. Gaiters +3",
    neck={ name="Mnk. Nodowa +2", augments={'Path: A',}},
    waist="Moonbow Belt +1",
    left_ear="Sherida Earring",
    right_ear="Mache Earring +1",
    left_ring="Niqmaddu Ring",
    right_ring="Epona's Ring",
    back={ name="Segomo's Mantle", augments={'DEX+20','Accuracy+20 Attack+20','"Store TP"+10','Phys. dmg. taken-10%',}},
}


New Hybrid Set:
Code
sets.engaged.PDTDelay ={
    ammo="Staunch Tathlum +1",
    head="Malignance Chapeau",
    body="Ken. Samue +1",
    hands="Malignance Gloves",
    legs="Ken. Hakama +1",
    feet="Ken. Sune-Ate +1",
    neck="Loricate Torque +1",
    waist="Moonbow Belt +1",
    left_ear="Mache Earring +1",
    right_ear="Mache Earring +1",
    left_ring="Defending Ring",
    right_ring={ name="Gelatinous Ring +1", augments={'Path: A',}},
    back="Moonlight Cape",
}
 Asura.Friedrik
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By Asura.Friedrik 2020-06-30 12:51:19
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Fenrir.Skarwind said: »

Thanks,

I'll have to re-evaluate things. I think the reasons fights are going quicker with ambu h2h is because Im basically stuck with Haste 2, 1x Ulmia march (Trusts dont even wanna give me haste lately..).. and a ballad of all things. I keep missing the self SC window with Godhands while Im riding my hybrid set.

I'm also losing quite a bit of store tp swapping to Kenda+1 for meva/survival.

I'm glad you don't think I'm trying to dump on you and the way you play or anything like that (I'm not), I just think something isn't jiving if you've got Karambit beating out R15 Godhands in basically any situation.

When I'm solo using Godhands and not skillchaining for whatever reason I usually just hold to about 1500~ TP and ride Howling Fist with pretty good results.
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By Asura.Topace 2020-06-30 13:39:14
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Howling Fist with GH is sex.
 Fenrir.Skarwind
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By Fenrir.Skarwind 2020-06-30 13:42:19
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Asura.Friedrik said: »
Fenrir.Skarwind said: »

Thanks,

I'll have to re-evaluate things. I think the reasons fights are going quicker with ambu h2h is because Im basically stuck with Haste 2, 1x Ulmia march (Trusts dont even wanna give me haste lately..).. and a ballad of all things. I keep missing the self SC window with Godhands while Im riding my hybrid set.

I'm also losing quite a bit of store tp swapping to Kenda+1 for meva/survival.

I'm glad you don't think I'm trying to dump on you and the way you play or anything like that (I'm not), I just think something isn't jiving if you've got Karambit beating out R15 Godhands in basically any situation.

When I'm solo using Godhands and not skillchaining for whatever reason I usually just hold to about 1500~ TP and ride Howling Fist with pretty good results.


No worries, I appreciate the assistance with this.
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By Trillium 2020-06-30 17:28:39
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Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
To be clear, Counterstance isn't worth using WITH Spharai.


This has been my experience as well. Can nearly get to 80 with gear if you need... Probably all the way there, but then you start sacrificing more Dt gear, so questionable worth it. But certainly close enough, I think it would be rare I use counterstance with spharai. On a side note, I just got my verth in workable condition again, and you really do notice the defensive difference imho. I didn't think it would be as noticeable.
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2020-06-30 17:38:29
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You'll quickly forget spharai ever existed once you put on vere. Though Spharai can still get much use and occasionally be a life saver in stuff like Odyssey where mobs can use hundred fists. I've actually survived the cactus NM Cynara using Spharai when Inner strength was not ready, so you can still get some use out of it from a tactical perspective.

I just wish they added one thing to Spharai in that it "Augments" counters to give tp on successful counters. That alone would be more than enough reason to use it on several tanking occasions, since you could TP while defending. Obviously WS damage aside of course, it would be very unique. In its current state, you can just use a stronger weapon at the moment and simply kill faster, making those counters effectively nothing. It's such a shame and waste of a good weapon potential
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 Sylph.Ticktick
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By Sylph.Ticktick 2020-06-30 17:46:21
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They should have put counters grant TP on the dyna weapon like thf gets tp from evasion.
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By Fenrir.Skarwind 2020-07-01 15:40:30
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Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
You'll quickly forget spharai ever existed once you put on vere. Though Spharai can still get much use and occasionally be a life saver in stuff like Odyssey where mobs can use hundred fists. I've actually survived the cactus NM Cynara using Spharai when Inner strength was not ready, so you can still get some use out of it from a tactical perspective.

I just wish they added one thing to Spharai in that it "Augments" counters to give tp on successful counters. That alone would be more than enough reason to use it on several tanking occasions, since you could TP while defending. Obviously WS damage aside of course, it would be very unique. In its current state, you can just use a stronger weapon at the moment and simply kill faster, making those counters effectively nothing. It's such a shame and waste of a good weapon potential


I just wish Final Heaven got some love with the rest of H2H weaponskills.

When MNK was considered gimp it went from being a pretty solid/consistent WS(With R15/WSDMG Gear) to trash over night.
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By eeternal 2020-07-01 17:33:41
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Lately, I have been a fan of zerging with GHs.. with 4 rolls, TK and RF is devastating, no VS can do that





buffs were: March x2.. Mad x1 .. Dark Carol x1 (Kyou) | Sam,Chas,Fighters,Tact| Bolster Fury Frailty | Dia 2

I didn't even have Minuet... rest of TK was doing 55-67k. When I added fighters roll, things turned around significantly, just thought of sharing
 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2020-07-01 18:02:25
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Fenrir.Skarwind said: »
Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
You'll quickly forget spharai ever existed once you put on vere. Though Spharai can still get much use and occasionally be a life saver in stuff like Odyssey where mobs can use hundred fists. I've actually survived the cactus NM Cynara using Spharai when Inner strength was not ready, so you can still get some use out of it from a tactical perspective.

I just wish they added one thing to Spharai in that it "Augments" counters to give tp on successful counters. That alone would be more than enough reason to use it on several tanking occasions, since you could TP while defending. Obviously WS damage aside of course, it would be very unique. In its current state, you can just use a stronger weapon at the moment and simply kill faster, making those counters effectively nothing. It's such a shame and waste of a good weapon potential


I just wish Final Heaven got some love with the rest of H2H weaponskills.

When MNK was considered gimp it went from being a pretty solid/consistent WS(With R15/WSDMG Gear) to trash over night.
I swear I still don't get why you people get so melancholic about Spharai, going such lenghts in foolish attempts to find a role for them :x

Just forget about Spharai and take em out from the Mog Safe when SE will finally decide to update relics.
The reason why they didn't update Final Heaven, so SE said, is because they wanted to do "major overhaul to all Relic WSs".
Since then nothing happened.
Is it still in SE's plans? Who knows, we'll see.
Until then please forget about Spharai pretty please? :x
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By Asura.Eiryl 2020-07-01 18:13:30
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Ugh.
Spharai represents what mnk actually does. The other weapons are just numbers. Stuff other than dps is supposed to matter.

Relics like never got any love. Like any. Too hard to get and then completely relegated to the garbage can the second every other weapon came out. Always behind every option at every increase. Pretty much every (melee) relic across the board. Rag had a shining moment for a couple months and kikoku is a memebest.
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 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2020-07-01 18:57:44
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Asura.Eiryl said: »
Ugh.
Spharai represents what mnk actually does. The other weapons are just numbers. Stuff other than dps is supposed to matter.

This^
I mean, this is what you get when you make everything about damage. Nothing else matters.

Spharai is the most monk weapon and provides the largest spread of bonuses to the jobs unique strength's besides maybe Glanzfaust. The fact that they suck are just an issue with SE not addressing the WS attached to the Relic. There is zero wrong with the weapon.

If they address the weaponskill, Spharai will rise.
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By Butcherb0y 2020-07-01 19:33:06
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Exactly this. Spharai have so much open potential. SE have so much option when incomes to buffing it, from KA, counter rate increase or to gain during counter, increase WS dmg.

But a simple to fix to FH will bring the weapon back.
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By Korgull 2020-07-01 22:50:09
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eeternal said: »
Lately, I have been a fan of zerging with GHs.. with 4 rolls, TK and RF is devastating, no VS can do that





buffs were: March x2.. Mad x1 .. Dark Carol x1 (Kyou) | Sam,Chas,Fighters,Tact| Bolster Fury Frailty | Dia 2

I didn't even have Minuet... rest of TK was doing 55-67k. When I added fighters roll, things turned around significantly, just thought of sharing

Mind sharing TK set?
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By Phoenix.Oyama 2020-07-01 23:05:09
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They're worth getting if you like what they do, and they are pretty fun. I set up a rule in my mnk lua to detect spharai aftermath and switch to a kick-oriented set to take advantage of AM. It's just fun, no other reason. GH15 are just dual wielding trucks though, you don't equip spharai for damage potential against that lol.

I did make a lockstyle centered around the Light aura of relic afterglow, so there's also that....
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By Asura.Sechs 2020-07-01 23:27:58
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Given how it happens pretty much for all relics /jobs I'm a bit skeptic it's like you guys say and more leaning to believe it's pure melancholia :-P
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By SimonSes 2020-07-01 23:35:40
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eeternal said: »
no VS can do that

Maybe not that 92k, but that 65 and 78k is achievable, especially with fighter's roll and you could also do rogue's roll instead of tactician and you would easily spam 60-70k V smites. You was doing all of those TK asap or waiting to 1500+ TP?

Also Minuet is irrelevant with probably just Bolster Frailty and Dia 2, not to mention Bolster Fury and Chaos roll.
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2020-07-01 23:41:14
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SimonSes said: »
eeternal said: »
no VS can do that

Maybe not that 92k, but that 65 and 78k is achievable, especially with fighter's roll and you could also do rogue's roll instead of tactician and you would easily spam 60-70k V smites. You was doing all of those TK asap or waiting to 1500+ TP?

Also Minuet is irrelevant with probably just Bolster Frailty and Dia 2, not to mention Bolster Fury and Chaos roll.

Well I mean, Smite would add SC Damage so it's a wash. Godhands R15 is clearly a truck with Tornado Kick, but anyone can manipulate buffs in favor of their weapon of choice. It's not really a competition anymore. One hits like a big truck, the other hits like several smaller trucks at once xD
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By SimonSes 2020-07-02 00:04:51
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Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
SimonSes said: »
eeternal said: »
no VS can do that

Maybe not that 92k, but that 65 and 78k is achievable, especially with fighter's roll and you could also do rogue's roll instead of tactician and you would easily spam 60-70k V smites. You was doing all of those TK asap or waiting to 1500+ TP?

Also Minuet is irrelevant with probably just Bolster Frailty and Dia 2, not to mention Bolster Fury and Chaos roll.

Well I mean, Smite would add SC Damage so it's a wash. Godhands R15 is clearly a truck with Tornado Kick, but anyone can manipulate buffs in favor of their weapon of choice. It's not really a competition anymore. One hits like a big truck, the other hits like several smaller trucks at once xD

TK would also do SC damage TK>TK>TK actually do impaction > detonation. Its not Light, but its 3 step instead of 2 step when you spam VS.
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By Taint 2020-07-02 06:21:09
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Are those TKs with or without Footwork?
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By eeternal 2020-07-02 06:29:26
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I didn't intend to compare GH with Vere, I have both and like them. It's just with omen bosses dying in 1-2 minutes, spamming TK or RF is much faster than charging VS, by the time its charged respectively the boss is 30%.

For SC damage, I roll with 2 savage blade cors, so VS doesn't really sc with savage blade, and can't take advantage of that, and no sc damage would outweigh 2 savage blade cors.

I used TK with footwork and opt to RF without, the tp was around 1800, and with tact roll, the tp gain is just fast. For the sets, it doesn't really differ than what was posted earlier, focusing on Ken+1 multiattack.

Generally, in longer fights (megaboss dynamis) I impetus VS then swap to GH, but in zerg situations (WoC, Omen Bosses, etc) i put on GH, fighters is just a beast to those weaponskills
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