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 Bismarck.Nyaarun
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By Bismarck.Nyaarun 2019-04-18 15:47:37
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Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
I didn't wanna go there Simon, it was too ridiculous of a claim to debunk i stopped. Once claims of having WHM-like mage defense, i rested my case (BTW that's the "RUN" i mentioned that took single damage from multiple charmed players for a long time). The only people who believed RUN defense was weak are people who've never seen a really good one. (mind yo u half of that video is in Epeo, the other half is in Aettir...)

Run LITERALLY has the same gear level as a light DD/Whm. They can only equip light armor. They literally have Whm level defense. At best you can say they have a bit more DT from DT II, but without parry, theyre essentially on par with any other light armor job for physical defense.
 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2019-04-18 15:53:10
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No they don't. Stop it, you're just wrong.
 Bismarck.Nyaarun
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By Bismarck.Nyaarun 2019-04-18 15:56:44
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Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
No they don't. Stop it, you're just wrong.

They LITERALLY do. Low def, high MDef. Thats the ENTIRE POINT of run, and the ENTIRE fantasy. Youre provably wrong.
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2019-04-18 15:58:10
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Invoked my inner Saevel *click* problem solved.
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By eliroo 2019-04-18 16:05:51
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Lakshmi.Buukki said: »
Half of the video is using Aettir... it's not the weapon, RUN IS just that strong defensively.

The difference between Epeo and Aettir was pretty massive. Also he is being healed by a WHM getting a pretty massive Cureskin.

Double edit: Yeah watch the video more closely. Epeo was basically 0 damage for most hits without cureskin. Aettir swapped required him to be healed a few times and the only times he really took 0 damage was with cureskin up. Taking 26-60 non crits. Still a really low value that would keep him up for more than a few rounds.

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They LITERALLY do. Low def, high MDef. Thats the ENTIRE POINT of run, and the ENTIRE fantasy. Youre provably wrong.

They may have lower defense than a heavy armor class but they have plenty of gear to make up for that.

Notably good Phalanx gear, ability to create high HP swaps for fastcast and other things and DT gear that gives other benefits.
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By SimonSes 2019-04-18 16:32:33
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Bismarck.Nyaarun said: »
a bit more DT from DT II

a bit more? 25% on Epeo is not a bit, it's tons. It's a matter of taking 100 damage per hit with Phalanx to taking 0 damage per hit with Phalanx.

I don't care that Epeo is harder to get etc. It's an option for RUN that let him improve his survivability by A LOT, so please don't try to argue that not every RUN has Epeo, so Epeo doesn't count
 Leviathan.Comeatmebro
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By Leviathan.Comeatmebro 2019-04-18 16:40:00
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can we go back to mnk and stop pretending auto attacks matter anywhere besides solo(and they don't matter for much of that either)

this ***isn't worth engaging, everyone knows it and nyaarun hasn't said anything accurate all week
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By Nariont 2019-04-18 16:40:47
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Bismarck.Nyaarun said: »
They LITERALLY do. Low def, high MDef. Thats the ENTIRE POINT of run, and the ENTIRE fantasy. Youre provably wrong.

so a pld can come correct me on what the most up to date DT set is, but i took the turtle set from the pld guide, since afaik full souv is still what most plds run with and the pdt engaged set for run from the bg run guide

pld: 680 gear def, counting def from shield slot
run:623 gear def

pld trait gives another 72 def so; a 129 def split atleast, im sure plds have higher vit, and maybe some additional def from gifts, but thats your gap. Truly the mage of tank jobs
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 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2019-04-18 16:43:12
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Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »
can we go back to mnk and stop pretending auto attacks matter anywhere besides solo(and they don't matter for much of that either)

this ***isn't worth engaging, everyone knows it and nyaarun hasn't said anything accurate all week

I apologize Monk community for derailing this nonsense and my share in furthering the phuckery.
 Fenrir.Skarwind
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By Fenrir.Skarwind 2019-04-18 17:15:39
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So I finished my R15 Spharai and I'm loving it compared to godhands/karambit.

I still need to make my AF+3 Hands, get some better Her Body/Feet Augs, and Make a +2 MNK neck. The damage from Final Heaven is very consistent and when multi attack does proc the Spikes are really nice.

Anyone else using them?

I didn't have it in me to make another Empty, also I have only Windy W3 cleared so far.
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2019-04-18 17:25:47
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I have had R15 Spharai for a few weeks now, and I love it as well. I just starting RPing my Verethragna, but even in the initial stages, for stuff I use Monk for (soloing), they are very handy. Counter procs well, and the damage is pretty nice too. Have been farming Behemoths for a pulse weapon, and its pretty cool to return 5k+ dmg worth of counters. That + a multiattack round is basically a mini ws.

Final Heaven is good and consistent, but it's much weaker than Smite with Impetus up. I normally start fights out with FH, and then after buffs, will do smite>smite for some pretty nice numbers. Haven't really gotten to use my Verethragna on anything good lately, so still hopeful those are as good as people are saying. But Spharai is very nice. I thought I was the only person who R15'd those.
 Bismarck.Nyaarun
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By Bismarck.Nyaarun 2019-04-18 17:43:28
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Leviathan.Comeatmebro said: »
can we go back to mnk and stop pretending auto attacks matter anywhere besides solo(and they don't matter for much of that either)

this ***isn't worth engaging, everyone knows it and nyaarun hasn't said anything accurate all week

Again, auto attacks are still threatening. Thats the entire point of all this. Counter is a major help given it completely nullifies auto damage on proc, which means your healer is doing the other important ***they need to do instead of cure bombing a DD.
 Bismarck.Nyaarun
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By Bismarck.Nyaarun 2019-04-18 17:44:19
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Nariont said: »
Bismarck.Nyaarun said: »
They LITERALLY do. Low def, high MDef. Thats the ENTIRE POINT of run, and the ENTIRE fantasy. Youre provably wrong.

so a pld can come correct me on what the most up to date DT set is, but i took the turtle set from the pld guide, since afaik full souv is still what most plds run with and the pdt engaged set for run from the bg run guide

pld: 680 gear def, counting def from shield slot
run:623 gear def

pld trait gives another 72 def so; a 129 def split atleast, im sure plds have higher vit, and maybe some additional def from gifts, but thats your gap. Truly the mage of tank jobs

Given they dont get much more defense than literally any mage.... yeah,, they are the mage tank. Thats LITERALLY the design and fantasy of Run.
 Shiva.Applesmash
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By Shiva.Applesmash 2019-04-18 18:08:45
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Man you sure are *** annoying.
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 Bismarck.Nyaarun
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By Bismarck.Nyaarun 2019-04-18 18:22:12
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Shiva.Applesmash said: »
Man you sure are *** annoying.

Im also right.
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By Ruaumoko 2019-04-18 18:52:31
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Speaking as someone really good at both RUN and MNK...

No, auto-attacks aren't dangerous to RUN. Inquartata and Battuta exist. Epeolatry is also the best item in the entire game for mitigating physical damage. Epeolatry RUN in a full-on DT set with Embolden Phalanx will be taking double digit damage from attacks which somehow get through. The exception is against something with really high attack or with a really high level, Halphas on Wave 2 San d'Oria for example.

The real danger with auto-attacks isn't them by themselves, it's what gets added to them. Hundred Fists and Mighty Strikes both will make any NM's auto-attacks dangerous. Kyou is a really good example of this, as is Fu. They also get dangerous with added effects like Wrathare or, again, Kyou. That's what I like about Counterstance, it not only completely cancels the attack and prevents the effect from landing but also adds to your DPS through the counter.

I used a Counterstance set for Kyou and recorded it, really good results. Here it is below.

YouTube Video Placeholder

(Skip to 4:47)

Final note, this is why I really like the Path A Sagitta. It makes a good Counterstance build a lot easier to work with.
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By eliroo 2019-04-18 18:59:23
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Fenrir.Skarwind said: »
So I finished my R15 Spharai and I'm loving it compared to godhands/karambit.

I still need to make my AF+3 Hands, get some better Her Body/Feet Augs, and Make a +2 MNK neck. The damage from Final Heaven is very consistent and when multi attack does proc the Spikes are really nice.

Anyone else using them?

I didn't have it in me to make another Empty, also I have only Windy W3 cleared so far.

What are the numbers on your Final Heavens?
 Asura.Eiryl
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By Asura.Eiryl 2019-04-18 19:00:08
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You had 2 minnes on in that video, yeah? Did they also wilt?
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By Ruaumoko 2019-04-18 19:07:57
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Asura.Eiryl said: »
You had 2 minnes on in that video, yeah? Did they also wilt?
Those aren't Minnes, they're Dark Carol I and II. I always have them used on Kyou to stop him landing the AoE Curse.

No, you see me getting Entrust Indi-Fury at the start. Vex and Frailty were the two others, check the chat log and you see them both being used.
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By Asura.Eiryl 2019-04-18 19:13:58
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Only watched to see how much damage you took. diabolic claw is the only physical damage tp move they do. and I guess you got super lucky not getting it used.

Regular Tigers in omen are more dangerous than any of the cats physically.
 Asura.Shiraj
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By Asura.Shiraj 2019-04-18 20:36:10
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Bismarck.Nyaarun said: »
No one dies from autos because whms heal you. Autos still force whms to heal you instead of erasing/-naing debuffs and doing other vital roles. And autos CAN kill you if the whm is doing something else (arise, erase) and you take an auto round or two and get TPd on.

The idea that mob autos arent dangerous is just wrong. The only job that can disregard them is pld.

My Dude, right. You must have some *** *** rune fencers in your group if you think RUN is a squishy job. just saying.

And yeah, Buukki is right. I had 10+ people charmed on melee Vir'ava, taking 66 damage total from 10+ players without parrying most. PLD is nowhere near on the same level as RUN for physical mitigation.

My Phalanx set reduces 55-59 damage taken, not 35-40... that's gimp numbers right there.

Literally RUN/BLU is the most unkillable job in the game. I would bet my entire account on that ***.

And the video?

I purposely had little buffs, to showcase the damage taken. If i was playing properly and not showcasing supertanking, i would have taken even less damage.

I let cocoon drop while using Aettir which by itself is a massive chunk. This was actually an accident, I was dual boxing at the time so i forgot about it. Embolden Protect 5 + Cocoon = very durable Aettir Run with a good phalanx set... not some gimped *** 35-40 reduction.

edit. i didn't realise this was mnk forum... i just responded to a dumb *** after seeing something dumb.
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 Bismarck.Nyaarun
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By Bismarck.Nyaarun 2019-04-18 23:00:36
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Asura.Shiraj said: »
Bismarck.Nyaarun said: »
No one dies from autos because whms heal you. Autos still force whms to heal you instead of erasing/-naing debuffs and doing other vital roles. And autos CAN kill you if the whm is doing something else (arise, erase) and you take an auto round or two and get TPd on.

The idea that mob autos arent dangerous is just wrong. The only job that can disregard them is pld.

My Dude, right. You must have some *** *** rune fencers in your group if you think RUN is a squishy job. just saying.

And yeah, Buukki is right. I had 10+ people charmed on melee Vir'ava, taking 66 damage total from 10+ players without parrying most. PLD is nowhere near on the same level as RUN for physical mitigation.

My Phalanx set reduces 55-59 damage taken, not 35-40... that's gimp numbers right there.

Literally RUN/BLU is the most unkillable job in the game. I would bet my entire account on that ***.

And the video?

I purposely had little buffs, to showcase the damage taken. If i was playing properly and not showcasing supertanking, i would have taken even less damage.

I let cocoon drop while using Aettir which by itself is a massive chunk. This was actually an accident, I was dual boxing at the time so i forgot about it. Embolden Protect 5 + Cocoon = very durable Aettir Run with a good phalanx set... not some gimped *** 35-40 reduction.

edit. i didn't realise this was mnk forum... i just responded to a dumb *** after seeing something dumb.

I guess my whm and rdm can main tank now in 50 DT and throwing up phalanx. Whm/rdm gogogo.
 Asura.Topace
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By Asura.Topace 2019-04-18 23:03:48
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Who gives a ***take that to the RUN thread we have enough problems in here with counterstance alone.
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 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2019-04-19 02:33:23
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That video is extremely misleading Rua.

You used counterstance, yes, but shortly afterwards, you popped inner strength, which is 100% counter and guard rate. Your counterstance results are badly skewed because of sp2. none of the counters were from counterstance during that window. When that wore off, chi blast was not far off and you basically overloaded the ai of the boss because caturae are extremely predicable ( they cast a spell every 10-15 seconds, unless they have TP, then they use it, unless they hit their hp threshold, then they use their forced mechanic). It then just turned into the monster using it's TP in a rhythmic pattern. You also used perfect counter which embellishes what counterstance really did during that fight.

You can literally bottle neck any omen bosses and nearly completely negate their auto attacks if you feed them enough TP and reach their hp marks quick enough. Dark carols guarantee you'll never die from magical moves, and you're lucky he didn't use claw. It's not actually all that impressive since it was basically a Zerg and the NM barely had time to auto. Also, caturae are naturally weak physical attackers (you know this), any DD can tank them because they are non threatening. People do this exact method on Kin and he doesn't even get any normal attacks in because he's forced to spam his TP moves. You wouldn't be able to pull off that same approach on something like Fu absorbing buffs with conterstance. The video doesn't really show anything about counterstance, just a straight zerg on a melee week monster.
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By SimonSes 2019-04-19 04:05:45
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Btw why dark carolls? I was tanking both gin and kin with THF with my hybrid set including 3/5 Turms and i maybe got hit by one curse per 20 tp moves. MNK can probably mimic this easily with Kendatsuba.
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2019-04-19 08:06:58
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Malign invocation is muted by using fade or dark carols. All of caturae magical moves are dark based so double Carol basically negates them and you can tp thru them practically without fear
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By SimonSes 2019-04-19 08:50:24
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Guess my point of view is biased. I only have one char in range of its tp moves so its easier for me to tp in meva gear with 2 more dd songs, than tp in normal tp set and have 2 carols.
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By Asura.Topace 2019-04-19 09:04:00
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Godhands turns Shitjin Spiral from garbage tier to barely tolerable tier.

I wish raging fist had better SC properties that along with Tornado Kick by far my favorite ws.
 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2019-04-19 09:23:54
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Shijin Spiral is a real disappointment. Even the plague is nothing impressive on anything that matters. I guess you can use shijin + chi blast if solo monk for as minimal tp gain. It's not horribly bad with Godhands, but it's garbage compared to Smite/HF/FH/TK/RF
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