IiPunch - Monk Guide

shneddick

Criers or heralds, Hermes.

Atma of the BlueCrab

Herald's Gaiters

Hello :)

I'm looking for some guidance for Shijin Spiral set. I loved Ruau's MNK guide but noticed it was lacking a gearset for this. I realise that this WS is lacking but I'd still like to make the best possible set for it (Godhands AM). I dont yet have 500 JP so I cant equip Kenda, so I am interested in seeing pre-500JP and post 500-JP options (And some clarification as to how certain piece compare like relic legs vs. Jokushu, Kenda hands' higher DEX vs Adhemar's higher STR and ATT)

This is what I have set up myself (somewhat blindly guessing what might work)

ItemSet 364150

Rao Togi +1 is path B
Adhemar Wristbands +1 are path B
Cape is 30DEX 20ATT/ACC 10DA
Herculean Boots have 10DEX 22AC 20ATT 3TA

Am i reading this correctly? Raging Fists sets use WSD gear?

Yes, as the ftp on the 1st hit is so great at 2k+ its better to focus on that hit than stacking multi-attack, same as some gaxe WS and insurgency for scythe

Its actually even more suited for WSD than Upheaval and Insurgency at higher TP. 1000/2000/3000 fTP:
Raging Fists 1.0/4.6/9.0
Insurgency 0.5/3.25/6.0
Upheaval 1.0/3.5/6.5

I was pointing that out under Ruaumoko's guide on YT (alongside other things I found wrong there too), but got no response.

I just assume people watching have the sense to read comments.

They don't. Case in point, monthly Ambuscade videos (this) every month. Not trying to blow your head up or anything, but videos tell people to "do it this way". And people will listen to you, because there's a video and it looks easy. So read=no, see=yes. There's dozens of testimonials on BG of how to kill a T4 fairly easily, but everyone that has seen a video method will just do that instead.

Videos = "I don't have to think, cuz Rua already did".

Looked thru about 8 pages back and could not find so please forgive me. Any updated Dragon Kick, Tornado Kick sets? Or are these even worth using?

Fair enough. Although, I do link viewers to the various forums so they can follow up mistakes I may have made.

Also, I'm more than open to people publishing their own videos to amend said mistakes. Constructive critique is part-and-parcel of content creation far as I see it. If YouTube would still let people annotate sections of their videos post-upload I'd gladly do it.

ItemSet 360946

This is what I use, probably outdated somewhere but whatevs. They are worth using while Footwork is up.

ItemSet 364177

Kendatsuba +1 body and Sherida Earring will start losing to 5%WSD, 10STR Herculean body and Ishvara ring somewhere around 2000TP (not counting moonshade and Godhands, so 1250TP with them).

My in-game set uses Sherida, the one I made here months ago it seems wasn't updated.

Are you getting Kendatsuba +1 over Hizamaru +2?
The latter is definitely winning for me on the spreadsheet, dunno what's the difference.
Maybe att uncapped?

You are talking about body? I lowered attack buffs a lot and Kenda still win but very marginally. With lowered attack Herculean wins over Kendetusba anyway tho, even at 1000TP (with Godhands and moonshade)

I dunno :x
Ken body HQ is 7 less STR and 12 less VIT on a 40% STR/VIT based WS.
Then you have the additional attack on Hizamaru.

I find it hard to believe TA+6% alone can mean so much on a WS that doesn't transfer FTP across hits D:
But then again you're usually always right with numbers...

Tomorrow I should be able to access my saved spreadsheet, I'll check what the *** I had in there to get these seemingly strange results.

I talked about this in the nin thread. How multi-attack is always overvalued etc.

94% of the time it does absolutely nothing and there's no way it's properly represented in the averages/numbers. (as an individual piece)

It's better to do 100 ws @ 10,000 than it is to do 6 @ 12,000 and 94 @ 9,500. (totally fictional numbers to illustrate the point) but the spreadsheets always skew toward MA being incredible.

With the sheet that's currently up Rao+1 B beat Kend+1 anyway. (capped attack and acc) (5% DA is less devalued than 6% TA I guess) Herc with 5% WSD beat them both.

BTW, the spreadsheet from august 2017 has ken/ken+1 with DA and not TA so if you're using that, or an update of it, you should make sure it's right.

Yeah, just use Herc. It's the safest option.

Be
What's best WS gear then, slot by slot, for Raging Fists? Since I was pausing your video frame by frame to see the Raging Fists gear to get them :/

Ok so I checked the spreadsheet I was using.
These are the results I'm getting:
Augs on Herc WSD were pretty realistic.
STR+5, Acc/Att+15, WSD+5%.
I don't have such an Herc Body but it doesn't seem that unreachable.

I'd say from these scenarios I outlined, Herc is the winner imo.
Hizamaru+2 is still a pretty solid option (and it's free!) and Kendatsuba+1 is better than I remembered but honestly I would use it exclusively at capped attack, and even then it's not like Hizamaru+2 is crap at capped attack, it's still a solid option.

Anything wrong with my reasoning?

ItemSet 364211

Herculean Vest/Boots - STR/WSD
Segomo's - STR/WSD

Nothing wrong, but those numbers seems really low, what are you using for them? I mean if you are using weapon other than Godhands, than bump minimum TP to use WS to like 1500+, because without Godhands you shouldn't use Raging Fists over other options at low TP (Final Heaven and Vsmite are both better for that)

This is what I'm getting with Godhands at att cap and this set:
Ammo: Knobkierrie
Head: Hesychast +3
Neck: Monk's +2 (Aug)
Ear1: Moonshade AccTP
Ear2: Ishvara
Hands: Anchorite +3
Ring1: Regal
Ring2: Epaminondas ring
Back: Segomo (STR+ WSD)
Waist: Moonbow +1
Legs: Hizamaru +2
Feet: Herculean (custom) 5%WSD 5STR 25 acc

1000TP (without overtping):
Hizamaru+2: 23291
Herculean 5%WSD 5STR 20acc 15att: 23612
Kendatsuba +1: 23582

1500TP (without overtping):
Hizamaru+2: 29978
Herculean 5%WSD 5STR 20acc 15att: 30481
Kendatsuba +1: 30230


Not sure why Kendatsuba +1 suddenly very slightly loses instead of very slightly wins at 1000TP, but doesn't matter, just use Herculean :)

Also Niqmaddu ring looks better than Regal on sheet, but imo Quadruple attack on 5 hits WS is overrated if you also have 10%TA and 10%DA (I doubt sheet even check for situation when you proc QA, you get 0 value of possible second multi-hit proc), so I would rather have 20 att and 15 acc.

Atm I have my current gear in the set on the spreadsheet.
It consists of:
Godhands (non-aug) / ... / ... / Knobkierrie
Hesy+2 / Fotia / Sherida / Moonshade
Hizamaru+2 / Ancho+3 / Regal / Niqmaddu
Ambu STR_WSD / Moonbow+1 / Hiza+2 / Ancho+3


Wait wait waaaait.
I think I finally found the "error". Were you talking about Raging Fists? Because I was talking about Tornado Kick! XD
This is the original post from Bukki, and you quoted that posting your Kendatsuba+1 suggestion.
Bukki gave a Tornado Kick set though, not a Raging Fists one!

Final Heaven requires Aug Spharai to shine though, and personally at low TP and low buff with Godhands I find Howling Fist is tipically the best option damage-wise.
Guess Vsmite with Impetus up though? Haven't played enough with MNK since the Acc cap update...

If we're talking about Raging Fists though, a pretty decent and often ignored option is the old (and free!) Rawhide Vest path A, sporting really high STR and DEX values (Raging Fists' two mods) and a bit of acc/att/TA.

With my Raging Fists set I'm getting the following results
No attack => Hiza+2 > Rawhide > Herc WSD > Kenda+1
Midlow att => Hiza+2 > Rawhide > Herc WSD > Kenda+1
Midhigh att => Rawhide > Herc WSD > Hiza+2 > Kenda+1
Capped att => Kenda+1 > Rawhide = Herc WSD > Hiza +2

They're all incredibly close btw.
Same scenarios as before, using Godhands (non-aug).
My current Raging Fists set is pretty much the same as the Tornado Kick one, but Hiza+2 on feet and Caro Necklace on Neck.


I don't use Epaminonda, but if I did I'd totally agree with what you said about what to put in the other slot.

Hahaha a real brainfart on my side :D Everything up to the last post was about Tornado Kick from my part tho (Only the last post was about Raging :D). I started talking about Raging in last post because Jugsofholyness asked for it and Rua posted a set for Raging too and just before Tornado question, there was also question about Raging and it's fTP and WSD gear. Sorry!

Ok going back to Tornado..

Low attack 1000TP:
Hizamaru+2: 16819
Herc (5%WSD, 5STR, 20acc, 15att): 16751
Kenda +1: 16603

So Hizamaru wins for low attack, but if you actualyl can get higher augment on Herculean (like 10 str or 25+att or both or some balanced mix between them) then Herculean will pull ahead.

Cap attack and 1000TP:
Hizamaru+2: 27283
Herc (5%WSD, 5STR, 20acc, 15att): 27593
Kenda +1: 27606

So like I previously siad before I brainfarted and started talking about Raging Fists, Kendatsuba +1 pulls ahead slightly at 1000TP with capped attack. Tho with max STR augment Herculean is actually a winner.

Cap attack and 1500TP:
Hizamaru+2: 33597
Herc (5%WSD, 5STR, 20acc, 15att): 34197
Kenda +1: 33832

Herc start pulling ahead noticeably with higher TP, because WSD having more impact with higher fTP on first hit.

TL;DR For Tornado Kick get Herculean body with 5%WSD and 10STR and acc/att. 10STR being more important than for example 30 att instead of 10 attack, because 10STR will work on both attack capped and uncapped.

I wouldn't use Tornado Kick with very low pDIF anyway, because Howling will perform much better.

@Sechs I think I know why your numbers are so low. First, because you don't use Monk's Nodawa, which is just a beast neck for Footwork Tornado and beast in general for any WS at capped attack. That also brings the second thing, which is Footwork, which you haven't turned on for your numbers too I think. I personally wouldn't use Tornado Kick outside of Footwork, because Raging Fists is just better.
Also AFAIK Kick Attack damage doesn't work for Tornado kick outside of Footwork up, so using AF+3 feet for Tornado outside of Footwork up is bad.

Been gone since September is monk any better or am I coming back tot he same ***? Has the WSD bug been patched?

I don't know if this is true. In fact, it isn't. But even if it was true and you didn't get any bonuses from using af3 feet without the use of footwork, you wouldn't be using tornado kicks anyways unless it is active since impetus smite is just better anyways. The point of tornado kick = use it while buffed with footwork. When it wears off, who cares what gear does or doesn't buff it, stop using it.