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An insight into RUN/GEO
Cerberus.Kvazz
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 5,345
By Cerberus.Kvazz 2013-02-23 05:21:58
Would think Caladbolg were perfect for a tank-class, since it has VIT on it, as far as SE logic goes :p
15-20 VIT is like -4213481941% dmg taken!
Guess that's too strong eh..
By Enuyasha 2013-02-23 05:24:25
Would think Caladbolg were perfect for a tank-class, since it has VIT on it, as far as SE logic goes :p
15-20 VIT is like -4213481941% dmg taken!
Guess that's too strong eh.. I think they where looking at it as a "down the line" thing...cause VIT adds DEF too doesnt it >_> which would give them better DEFpdt- >_>
Iunno...try to rationalize why i want wield a magical extradimensional weapon on a few select jobs and why others cant. In SE's eyes i should say.
Lakshmi.Saevel
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2,228
By Lakshmi.Saevel 2013-02-23 06:06:49
Would think Caladbolg were perfect for a tank-class, since it has VIT on it, as far as SE logic goes :p
15-20 VIT is like -4213481941% dmg taken!
Guess that's too strong eh.. I think they where looking at it as a "down the line" thing...cause VIT adds DEF too doesnt it >_> which would give them better DEFpdt- >_>
Iunno...try to rationalize why i want wield a magical extradimensional weapon on a few select jobs and why others cant. In SE's eyes i should say.
They aren't thinking about game mechanics balance at all. They were thinking about time sink and reward vs time ratios. If they allowed "new" jobs to equip the older weapons of awesomeness then anyone who wanted to play those new jobs would already have an epic weapon for them. Instead they'll keep them off of the older weapons so that in the future they can make something that will take someone six months to two years to complete as a form of "game content".
Remember from their point of view we're just revenue. They want to extract maximum revenue for minimal cost, in MMO terms that means milk the player base for subscriptions while releasing half baked "quick fix" content. Matsui may have some good ideas but he doesn't have anywhere near the development staff required to actually implement them. That's why I'm expecting lots of bad stuff for the next six to eight months, though I'd be pleasantly surprised to be proven wrong.
By Latifah 2013-02-23 06:51:18
I like how everyone thinks that rdm will get replaced everytime time SE releases a new mage job.
By Sakuhra 2013-02-23 07:19:58
And I like how so many people are QQing over no emp/relic/magian for the new jobs while we dont even know which new weapons they add with the addon.
Valefor.Sehachan
Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 24,219
By Valefor.Sehachan 2013-02-23 07:23:24
Simply cause we assume that whatever new legendary line of weapons they add(if any)won't be easy at all to make, the expansion is supposed to be longlasting afterall. If it's on the same ground as mythic effort-wise it's really gonna suck cause run has no access to any other option.
[+]
Diabolos.Raelia
Server: Diabolos
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1,707
By Diabolos.Raelia 2013-02-23 07:25:08
Would think Caladbolg were perfect for a tank-class, since it has VIT on it, as far as SE logic goes :p
15-20 VIT is like -4213481941% dmg taken!
Guess that's too strong eh.. I think they where looking at it as a "down the line" thing...cause VIT adds DEF too doesnt it >_> which would give them better DEFpdt- >_>
Iunno...try to rationalize why i want wield a magical extradimensional weapon on a few select jobs and why others cant. In SE's eyes i should say.
They aren't thinking about game mechanics balance at all. They were thinking about time sink and reward vs time ratios. If they allowed "new" jobs to equip the older weapons of awesomeness then anyone who wanted to play those new jobs would already have an epic weapon for them. Instead they'll keep them off of the older weapons so that in the future they can make something that will take someone six months to two years to complete as a form of "game content".
Remember from their point of view we're just revenue. They want to extract maximum revenue for minimal cost, in MMO terms that means milk the player base for subscriptions while releasing half baked "quick fix" content. Matsui may have some good ideas but he doesn't have anywhere near the development staff required to actually implement them. That's why I'm expecting lots of bad stuff for the next six to eight months, though I'd be pleasantly surprised to be proven wrong. Except you'd have to apply this thinking to all gear for the new jobs. If you put RUN on Phorcys and Ares' +1/Ker's you've created the same "problem".
So let's say you do leave them off all existing gear to create this timesink you want? How are you going to provide gear that makes them competitive?
You have two options: Make the gear readily available, which means you have a ton of fully geared RUNs running about in a week anyway (and undermine your entire point of not letting them use existing gear), or you make the gear scarce and you end up with practically none as new and old players alike have to struggle to gear an honestly 'niche' tank job. There's no middle ground here, it's like balancing a bucket of water: once it tips one way the playerbase will follow.
Putting RUN on existing gear, therefore, makes a bit of sense: Well established players treat it like any other job they might level and put it into gear they already have. This lets some of the 'good but not great' Artifact/Relic/Empy gear for the job be a little scarce, but not get totally dominated by well-resourced players neh?
Whole thing applies to weapons too. There is no reason to 'fresh start' everyone with a new job, it should be just the same as leveling any other job: If you've invested in certain gear for the jobs you like, and RUN falls into 'jobs you like', you shouldn't be prevented from using that gear.
I fully expect RUN to end up on a lot of mage gear though, like BLU does though BLU is on Phorcys.
Timesinks should come from the new content, not the leveling and gearing of the new jobs in old content. Nice Tanaka-thinking though.
By Sakuhra 2013-02-23 07:29:46
I´m not talking about the new Legendary/Mythic w/e im talking about "normal" weapons which could come from new NM`s or Events.
Lakshmi.Saevel
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2,228
By Lakshmi.Saevel 2013-02-24 04:37:55
Would think Caladbolg were perfect for a tank-class, since it has VIT on it, as far as SE logic goes :p
15-20 VIT is like -4213481941% dmg taken!
Guess that's too strong eh.. I think they where looking at it as a "down the line" thing...cause VIT adds DEF too doesnt it >_> which would give them better DEFpdt- >_>
Iunno...try to rationalize why i want wield a magical extradimensional weapon on a few select jobs and why others cant. In SE's eyes i should say.
They aren't thinking about game mechanics balance at all. They were thinking about time sink and reward vs time ratios. If they allowed "new" jobs to equip the older weapons of awesomeness then anyone who wanted to play those new jobs would already have an epic weapon for them. Instead they'll keep them off of the older weapons so that in the future they can make something that will take someone six months to two years to complete as a form of "game content".
Remember from their point of view we're just revenue. They want to extract maximum revenue for minimal cost, in MMO terms that means milk the player base for subscriptions while releasing half baked "quick fix" content. Matsui may have some good ideas but he doesn't have anywhere near the development staff required to actually implement them. That's why I'm expecting lots of bad stuff for the next six to eight months, though I'd be pleasantly surprised to be proven wrong. Except you'd have to apply this thinking to all gear for the new jobs. If you put RUN on Phorcys and Ares' +1/Ker's you've created the same "problem".
So let's say you do leave them off all existing gear to create this timesink you want? How are you going to provide gear that makes them competitive?
You have two options: Make the gear readily available, which means you have a ton of fully geared RUNs running about in a week anyway (and undermine your entire point of not letting them use existing gear), or you make the gear scarce and you end up with practically none as new and old players alike have to struggle to gear an honestly 'niche' tank job. There's no middle ground here, it's like balancing a bucket of water: once it tips one way the playerbase will follow.
Putting RUN on existing gear, therefore, makes a bit of sense: Well established players treat it like any other job they might level and put it into gear they already have. This lets some of the 'good but not great' Artifact/Relic/Empy gear for the job be a little scarce, but not get totally dominated by well-resourced players neh?
Whole thing applies to weapons too. There is no reason to 'fresh start' everyone with a new job, it should be just the same as leveling any other job: If you've invested in certain gear for the jobs you like, and RUN falls into 'jobs you like', you shouldn't be prevented from using that gear.
I fully expect RUN to end up on a lot of mage gear though, like BLU does though BLU is on Phorcys.
Timesinks should come from the new content, not the leveling and gearing of the new jobs in old content. Nice Tanaka-thinking though.
We're talking about SE here. They tend to f*ck everything up and error on the side of "time-sink". I'm expecting the new jobs to be on many gear sets currently available but severely lacking in weapons choices. I also expect SE to create a new RUN / GEO only set of "special weapons" that have outrageous requirements to get.
Lakshmi.Saevel
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2,228
By Lakshmi.Saevel 2013-02-24 04:40:46
I like how everyone thinks that rdm will get replaced everytime time SE releases a new mage job.
RDM died a long time ago. What's angering people is SE is taking ideas that were communicated inside the RDM feedback forums and turning them into new jobs rather then fixing the old jobs. At this point in time it's more about principle, Red Mage is an iconic FF class like Monk, Thief, White Mage, Black Mage and Fighter (Warrior). To have them blatantly ignoring it out of some fear another Avesta will appear is kinda of sad.
By Enuyasha 2013-02-26 14:45:37
Would think Caladbolg were perfect for a tank-class, since it has VIT on it, as far as SE logic goes :p
15-20 VIT is like -4213481941% dmg taken!
Guess that's too strong eh.. I think they where looking at it as a "down the line" thing...cause VIT adds DEF too doesnt it >_> which would give them better DEFpdt- >_>
Iunno...try to rationalize why i want wield a magical extradimensional weapon on a few select jobs and why others cant. In SE's eyes i should say.
They aren't thinking about game mechanics balance at all. They were thinking about time sink and reward vs time ratios. If they allowed "new" jobs to equip the older weapons of awesomeness then anyone who wanted to play those new jobs would already have an epic weapon for them. Instead they'll keep them off of the older weapons so that in the future they can make something that will take someone six months to two years to complete as a form of "game content".
Remember from their point of view we're just revenue. They want to extract maximum revenue for minimal cost, in MMO terms that means milk the player base for subscriptions while releasing half baked "quick fix" content. Matsui may have some good ideas but he doesn't have anywhere near the development staff required to actually implement them. That's why I'm expecting lots of bad stuff for the next six to eight months, though I'd be pleasantly surprised to be proven wrong. They are making "New" weapons either way...so you will have to grind not only for new peices of gear but the Adoulin "Epic Weapons" as well anyway. So it has to be about the system mechanics of the weapons now or in the future and/or the time it would take:money for themselves proportion you stated. It could be the former,it could be the later, we cant be totally sure but god its fun to speculate in the negative isnt it? Totally is fun to speculate positively without setting expectations too high though.
Phoenix.Dinah
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 135
By Phoenix.Dinah 2013-02-27 13:52:01
I hope the Artifact/Relic/Empyrean armors will be readily available at launch. When BLU/COR/PUP were added they didn't get AF for months it seemed.
On the topic of Empyrean armors as well...how will they add seals to NMs that already exist? Perhaps a new system to just get seals between GEO and RUN will be in place, but that will make it considerably easier than all the other jobs to get. But at the same time, adding seals for the new jobs will change the ratio of gain for other seals.
I'm pretty sure I saw that they confirmed RUN and GEO will be getting empyrean armors. Who knows.
Edit: In line with the recent addition of +2 Relic gear, it would be cool if they added ways to do trials on the AF weapons. Although SCH wouldn't get one, but could always quest Grimoire's that add cool spells maybe?
Valefor.Sehachan
Server: Valefor
Game: FFXI
Posts: 24,219
By Valefor.Sehachan 2013-02-27 14:15:36
They'll get sets equal to af, relic and empy, not exactly that. So probably will get the final JSE through Adoulin quests.
By duos 2013-02-27 15:03:10
Another solo job and another support job with "refresh AOE for mages" ... oh well
http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/02/21/massively-exclusive-an-in-depth-look-at-final-fantasy-xis-new/
Heres some details on RUN that we haven't had before.
Quote: Rune Fencer
FFXI has two tank classes in the game at the moment: the Paladin, which shines against targets that hit quickly and weakly, and the Ninja, which shines against big slow hits. (Then you have classes like Warrior and Dancer, which shine at tanking when you need a tank and you have no other options.) The Rune Fencer is meant to complete the trifecta by bringing something new to the table. Rather than focusing on physical damage, the Rune Fencer is at its best against magical attacks, stopping casters dead and slicing through elemental strengths and weaknesses like butter.
Some of this is evident immediately when you look at the basics of the class. Rune Fencers do not have a shield skill; Great Swords are their primary weapons. They learn several white magic spells, including Stoneskin, Aquaveil, and Shell up to V (compared to their highest Protect spell at Protect IV). They also gain access to the various black magic spikes as well as Flash, Phalanx, Regen, Refresh, and Blink.
All of these spells create the image of a union between a Paladin and a Red Mage, an image further supported by the Rune Enchantment ability that serves as the central class mechanic. When the ability is used, the Fencer builds up a rune, each of which acts as an elemental weapon spell while granting the opposite elemental resistance. So Lightning runes give your weapon additional Lightning damage per hit while boosting your Water resistance, Fire runes add Fire damage and boosts Ice resistance, and so on.
Rune Enchantment has a five-second cooldown and can stack several times, which gives the class some of the flavor of the Dancer when you consider that you can consume your stacked runes for an overall effect. Two abilities allow you to consume your stacked runes for larger effects. Ward allows you to convert your runes into defense by giving you an absorbing shield against the relevant element (allowing you to place a shield on an ally) or increasing your resistance to the element. Effusion allows you to either consume your runes for a large burst of elemental damage or debuff the enemy with lowered resistance against the element in question.
You can start to see the flow right away. An enemy weak to Wind can be made even weaker, or you can shield yourself against the target's attacks. It's a flexible system that gives players plenty of ways to stack runes and make use of them whether fighting as a tank or DPS.
Fencers have a few other abilities as well; their one-hour ability functions like Invincible for magic spells, allowing them to laugh off the many bosses that use Chainspell. You also gain a group ability that enhances non-physical evade, an ability that shortens the duration of your next enhancing spell but increases potency, and a self-buff that increases your accuracy and evasion until you take a hit.
The field of classes that hit something with a weapon is pretty crowded in FFXI, but even without the tanking side of things, Rune Fencers bring new goodies to the table. The fact that they can also take hits for the rest of the group just makes them even better.
So many aspects of RDM/NIN return with RUN with tools to mitigate magical damage, absorb damage, use enspells (melee RDMs can finally shut the fk up), lower elemental resistance further or cause elemental damage.
Quote: Geomancer
While Rune Fencers are new to the franchise, Geomancers have a long and storied history of sucking. The only game in which they've actually been useful was Final Fantasy Tactics, and even that was debatable. Despite this fact, the new version of Geomancer looks as if it's going to be quite good, working as a sort of fusion of Bard and Black Mage.
Geomancers are very much focused on positioning rather than terrain in FFXI, with their core class trait changing the effects of elemental spells based on the player's direction relative to the target. The Geomancer naturally learns some black magic, including elemental spells up to level IV and the -ra line of spells. However, most of the class abilities are focused upon the Indicolure and Geocolure mechanics.
This sounds more complex than it really is. Indicolure spells give the character a buff that extends out around the player, affecting all enemies or allies within the area of effect. Geocolure spells work exactly the same way, except that they summon a luopan when cast. The luopan is a physical object that does not move and can be hit with AoE attacks but is otherwise purely passive, its health slowly decreasing to serve as a timer. One spell of each type can be running at any given time.
In this, the Geomancer can work akin to a Bard, splitting effects between casters and melee characters as necessary. You could easily drop a debuffing luopan among the melee characters and then cast an AoE Refresh on yourself while among the mages. Or you could give yourself a debuffing field and run into range of the enemy while using a luopan in the area to buff the front line. The class winds up playing out in a very technical fashion, especially when you get to the class abilities.
For example, if you need to change your luopan effect before the item ticks down, you can use Full Circle to wipe it away. Or you can use Lasting Emanation to keep it in place longer. Ecliptic gives your next cast a shorter duration but a larger effect, while Life Cycle allows you to sacrifice your own health and heal your luopan proportionally. Dematerialize lets you briefly shield your luopan from any damage, and Concentric Pulse lets you detonate the luopan for an AoE damage effect while giving you the chance to put down a replacement.
Geomancers are obviously not meant as a melee class, focusing instead on their bells (akin to bardic instruments), but they can use clubs and shields for added durability. If you enjoy classes like Bard, Corsair, or Red Mage, it seems that the Geomancer will be just the job for you.
So more details on GEO such as a confirmed -ra line, spirit link for your luopan pet, an ability to shield it from damage, the ability to deal damage by blowing it up, AoE freshga as an incloture spell and an ability to increase sphere range at the cost of duration.
Pretty cool stuff. Both jobs at the least look fun to play which is more than I can say for my Bard!
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