|
|
Strippers and Unemployment
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 5,381
By Bahamut.Baconwrap 2013-02-06 20:57:12
Exotic Dancers Can Collect Unemployment, Kansas Supreme Court Says
Quote: The Kansas Supreme Court ruled that exotic dancers at a strip club have the right to collect unemployment insurance as employees and not independent contractors.
In 2005, a dancer at Club Orleans in Topeka filed an unemployment claim. The dancers earn money through tips, while the club maintains that it is offering “rental space” for them to perform.
By ruling that the workers are employees because they had to follow a number of house rules, the state Supreme Court decided that the club’s owners must contribute to the state unemployment-insurance fund, as first reported by the Wall Street Journal.
The Kansas Department of Labor argued that the minimum rates for particular dances and rules binding interactions with customers could be interpreted as rules for employees.
The Department of Labor would not release the name of the worker who filed for unemployment.
Michael Merriam, an attorney for Milano’s, a company that owned Club Orleans since 2002, told ABC News that the ruling “was incorrectly decided.”
“The court relied almost entirely on the fact that we had some house rules which were requested by the dancers. They were designed to keep everything legal,” Merriam said. “And the court relied on that fact alone to say we had control over them and that made them employees.”
He said his client does not plan to appeal the decision.
“This is the Kansas Supreme Court. This is where it ends,” he said.
A spokeswoman for the Kansas Department of Labor said this ruling applies to the workers at issue in this case.
“All decisions concerning unemployment are based on the applicable law and the specific facts of each case,” she said.
Really interesting article in many facets.
1) Because most strippers are independent contractors, at the same time they do follow club regulations etc.
2) Lets not "beat around the bush," strippers make a ton of cash and most of it comes from "special lap dances" in the back room. Technically she'd be receiving unemployment for illegal acts. So I'm really curious how much this dancers is going to receive in unemployment. Strippers can average anywhere $500-1k+ a night.
VIP
Server: Siren
Game: FFXI
Posts: 14,552
By Siren.Kalilla 2013-02-06 21:05:40
<.< oh Kansas...
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 5,381
By Bahamut.Baconwrap 2013-02-06 21:06:28
[+]
 Cerberus.Pleebo
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9,720
By Cerberus.Pleebo 2013-02-06 21:07:10
Will the unemployment office pay them in singles?
Leviathan.Vaudianx
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 128
By Leviathan.Vaudianx 2013-02-06 21:09:10
Will the unemployment office pay them in singles?
hahahahahahhah
Phoenix.Morier
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
Posts: 898
By Phoenix.Morier 2013-02-06 21:18:59
Bahamut.Baconwrap said: »Exotic Dancers Can Collect Unemployment, Kansas Supreme Court Says
Quote: The Kansas Supreme Court ruled that exotic dancers at a strip club have the right to collect unemployment insurance as employees and not independent contractors.
In 2005, a dancer at Club Orleans in Topeka filed an unemployment claim. The dancers earn money through tips, while the club maintains that it is offering “rental space” for them to perform.
By ruling that the workers are employees because they had to follow a number of house rules, the state Supreme Court decided that the club’s owners must contribute to the state unemployment-insurance fund, as first reported by the Wall Street Journal.
The Kansas Department of Labor argued that the minimum rates for particular dances and rules binding interactions with customers could be interpreted as rules for employees.
The Department of Labor would not release the name of the worker who filed for unemployment.
Michael Merriam, an attorney for Milano’s, a company that owned Club Orleans since 2002, told ABC News that the ruling “was incorrectly decided.”
“The court relied almost entirely on the fact that we had some house rules which were requested by the dancers. They were designed to keep everything legal,” Merriam said. “And the court relied on that fact alone to say we had control over them and that made them employees.”
He said his client does not plan to appeal the decision.
“This is the Kansas Supreme Court. This is where it ends,” he said.
A spokeswoman for the Kansas Department of Labor said this ruling applies to the workers at issue in this case.
“All decisions concerning unemployment are based on the applicable law and the specific facts of each case,” she said.
Really interesting article in many facets.
1) Because most strippers are independent contractors, at the same time they do follow club regulations etc.
2) Lets not "beat" around the bush, strippers make a ton of cash and most of it comes from "special lap dances" in the back room. Technically she'd be receiving unemployment for illegal acts. So I'm really curious how much this dancers is going to receive in unemployment. Strippers can average anywhere $500-1k+ a night. Why didn't you put bush in quotes?
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 5,381
By Bahamut.Baconwrap 2013-02-06 21:22:57
Why didn't you put bush in quotes? I was trying to decide which would convey the message more effectively!
Anyways fixed!
Fenrir.Sylow
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6,862
By Fenrir.Sylow 2013-02-06 21:23:07
He only wants to think about the "beating" part.
Edit: Obsoleted.
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1,650
By Asura.Elvaton 2013-02-06 21:25:00
i doubt they would get anywhere near the amount they make in a night from unemployment
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 5,381
By Bahamut.Baconwrap 2013-02-06 23:18:12
i doubt they would get anywhere near the amount they make in a night from unemployment
Of course not- no one makes what they originally made prior to unemployment (w/ the exception of severance package, which I'm sure she wasn't offered).
On a serious note. Like other tipping positions she would be entitled to a portion of what she reported to the IRS annually, in addition to any salary she received.
Lakshmi.Saevel
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2,228
By Lakshmi.Saevel 2013-02-07 05:03:51
Quote: On a serious note. Like other tipping positions she would be entitled to a portion of what she reported to the IRS annually, in addition to any salary she received.
I do believe that's the sticking point. Would you mind reporting how much illegal income you make to the IRA?
Still kinda interesting...
[+]
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1,008
By Bahamut.Cantontai 2013-02-07 05:48:02
Bahamut.Baconwrap said: »strippers make a ton of cash
I live in a city with an absurd amount of strip clubs and can tell you for a fact this is not always true, or even mostly true. Good strippers in popular/high-end venues make obscene amounts of money, I won't dispute that, but there are plenty of strippers making a much more modest income.
Having said that, I say give them unemployment, they've got it bad enough.
 Carbuncle.Anesthesia
Server: Carbuncle
Game: FFXI
Posts: 845
By Carbuncle.Anesthesia 2013-02-07 06:05:52
I'm not even sure why this was newsworthy or why it even went to the supreme court.
Agree or disagree with the job, as of right now exotic dancing is a legal, recognized occupation.
The fact that some people hold a distaste for a profession does not magically strip any legal rights those who practice it would have.
Server: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 15,066
By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2013-02-07 06:52:15
Does it mean a former dancer? If she's still a dancer, aka still employed, how can she file for unemployment?
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 5,381
By Bahamut.Baconwrap 2013-02-07 07:05:06
Does it mean a former dancer? If she's still a dancer, aka still employed, how can she file for unemployment? What's interesting is technically this could happen in several other states, the next being California or Nevada, and any other states Spearmint Rhino is based.
Spearmint Rhino Exotic Dancers Settle Suit For Nearly $13 Million
Quote: In addition to the financial hit to the 16 companies that were sued, the clubs have agreed that within six months they will no longer treat dancers as independent contractors or lessees, but as employees, shareholders, partners or some type of owner. In California specifically, dancers will no longer be charged stage fees.
Spearmint Rhino one of the nation's largest exotic dance clubs agreed to classify it's independent contractors as payroll employees. It's really a slap in the face to other tipping positions, who report honest work and slightly more accurate incomes to the IRS.
 Bismarck.Bloodrose
Server: Bismarck
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4,322
By Bismarck.Bloodrose 2013-02-07 08:04:07
I am not quite fmamiliar with working laws in the US, but typically in Canada, you can collect EI (Employment Insurance) or Employment Assistance, while still being registered as an employee still on payroll.
Previously it was called "Unemployment Insurance" but... that didn't fly too well, because it sounded more like you were insured for being unemployed.
Anyways, changing the actual roll of a stripper, who typically works on contract, and on contract is paid by personal dances and stage tips, to that of a payroll employee kind of protects them, and their earnings should something happen at work. A slip, fall, unruly patron, etc. While they gain more financially, they will be equally protected as much as other tip-dependant staff, which already get paid on an employee roster.
By rafien 2013-02-07 17:09:29
Question, what makes you think that her tips are illegal?
Why doesn't she who pays taxes just like you, deserve the same benefits that you also have.
Why are you allowed to look down on her job.
Please, tell me, what jobs shouldn't we have to pay unemployment for
By Quiznor 2013-02-07 17:30:18
Wow few bits of info i never knew here.
Mainly the tips only,stage fees and that they dont actually work for the club. Nthey just rent space there.
Probably because ireland doesnt have strip clubs! They tried open one a few years back,it failed and was shutdown within a month or two
Cerberus.Pleebo
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 9,720
By Cerberus.Pleebo 2013-02-07 17:49:08
How does a building full of naked, dancing women fail? Especially if it's the only one! D:
By Jetackuu 2013-02-07 18:05:53
How does a building full of naked, dancing women fail? Especially if it's the only one! D: they probably didn't allow booze
or it is Ireland, they should have called it the "Strip Pub"
Fenrir.Sylow
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6,862
By Fenrir.Sylow 2013-02-07 18:14:35
Bismarck.Bloodrose said: »I am not quite fmamiliar with working laws in the US, but typically in Canada, you can collect EI (Employment Insurance) or Employment Assistance, while still being registered as an employee still on payroll.
Previously it was called "Unemployment Insurance" but... that didn't fly too well, because it sounded more like you were insured for being unemployed.
Anyways, changing the actual roll of a stripper, who typically works on contract, and on contract is paid by personal dances and stage tips, to that of a payroll employee kind of protects them, and their earnings should something happen at work. A slip, fall, unruly patron, etc. While they gain more financially, they will be equally protected as much as other tip-dependant staff, which already get paid on an employee roster.
Unemployment laws vary from state to state (which is a pretty dumb thing about the US - ***is inconsistent - which worked well in 1790 and people didn't really move from place to place and the needs of people in South Carolina were vastly different from the needs of people in New York - but translates really inefficiently to 2012 where people move from state to state all the time and might even work in a different state - our society has more or less homogenized and the difference between Kansas and California is mostly geographic).
But generally you are allowed to file for unemployment while employed. You can file if your hours get drastically cut, or if you lose your job and get a new one that pays a lot less etc. You're limited to a certain number of weeks and a certain amount no matter what though, which is based on your earnings prior to filing. You also have to report all income while receiving benefits.
Should really look into the laws in the state where you live! You might be eligible for benefits you're not collecting!
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 5,381
By Bahamut.Baconwrap 2013-02-07 18:23:50
Bahamut.Cantontai said: »I live in a city with an absurd amount of strip clubs and can tell you for a fact this is not always true, or even mostly true. I lived with a stripper in Las Vegas off Flamingo and Maryland. If a stripper is pretty and dancing at a good club like Sapphire or Rhino she can make close to 1k a night on weekends. Holidays like Thanksgiving even more.
When you get paid about 100~ for just walking on stage/pole and then 250/lap dance + for any extras on top of that lap dance it's pretty easy to walk out with 500+. So, yes, they do can make a lot of money. It's also not about the city, just the clientele. I know a lot of strippers who make more in Dallas vs Las Vegas.
Question, what makes you think that her tips are illegal? Well, true, she might be an honest stripper who just dances...for others there is the VIP/back room and lap dances.
Server: Odin
Game: FFXI
Posts: 4,013
By Odin.Godofgods 2013-02-07 18:29:32
its nothing more then owners not want to pay anything. No different from larger businesses that are screwing employees out of everything everyday.
By Quiznor 2013-02-07 18:33:04
How does a building full of naked, dancing women fail? Especially if it's the only one! D:
Bunch of angry women protesters.It was right around the corner from a school lol yet at the same time,it was right in the center of dublin city. And according to reports the women that worked there werent strip club material (dont think i've EVER seen an irish girl that is tbh).
xD And maybe it had to do with the fact that our singles arent in paper form like you guys.Our smallest denomination of paper money is a 5 euro note,everything else smaller is a coin!
[+]
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 5,381
By Bahamut.Baconwrap 2013-02-07 18:34:34
How does a building full of naked, dancing women fail? Especially if it's the only one! D:
Bunch of angry women protesters.It was right around the corner from a school lol yet at the same time,it was right in the center of dublin city. And according to reports the women that worked there werent strip club material (dont think i've EVER seen an irish girl that is tbh).
xD And maybe it had to do with the fact that our singles arent in paper form like you guys.Our smallest denomination of paper money is a 5 euro note,everything else smaller is a coin!
Kinda off-topic but it's Ireland related!
By Quiznor 2013-02-07 18:37:15
Bahamut.Baconwrap said: »How does a building full of naked, dancing women fail? Especially if it's the only one! D:
Bunch of angry women protesters.It was right around the corner from a school lol yet at the same time,it was right in the center of dublin city. And according to reports the women that worked there werent strip club material (dont think i've EVER seen an irish girl that is tbh).
xD And maybe it had to do with the fact that our singles arent in paper form like you guys.Our smallest denomination of paper money is a 5 euro note,everything else smaller is a coin!
Kinda off-topic but it's Ireland related!
Oh man I remember that......
Dark days!
You should hear Ireland's laws that make porn nearly impossible to make here.
Not that you'd wanna see Irish women in porn.
But the Polish women we have here.......omg
By ScaevolaBahamut 2013-02-07 18:53:42
Does it mean a former dancer? If she's still a dancer, aka still employed, how can she file for unemployment? 
Fenrir.Sylow
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6,862
By Fenrir.Sylow 2013-02-07 18:58:23
Scaevola, you might be surprised how not common knowledge that is.
[+]
By Gimp 2013-02-07 19:17:46
Question, what makes you think that her tips are illegal?
Why doesn't she who pays taxes just like you, deserve the same benefits that you also have.
Why are you allowed to look down on her job.
Please, tell me, what jobs shouldn't we have to pay unemployment for
In our country, hard to say because it's ambiguous and aims to provide the most for the majority. It's hilarious because it something you don't think about and you're caught unawares when a topic like this comes up.
The best at debate and using power are the ones who decide what happens to answer your question though.
Exotic Dancers Can Collect Unemployment, Kansas Supreme Court Says
Quote: The Kansas Supreme Court ruled that exotic dancers at a strip club have the right to collect unemployment insurance as employees and not independent contractors.
In 2005, a dancer at Club Orleans in Topeka filed an unemployment claim. The dancers earn money through tips, while the club maintains that it is offering “rental space” for them to perform.
By ruling that the workers are employees because they had to follow a number of house rules, the state Supreme Court decided that the club’s owners must contribute to the state unemployment-insurance fund, as first reported by the Wall Street Journal.
The Kansas Department of Labor argued that the minimum rates for particular dances and rules binding interactions with customers could be interpreted as rules for employees.
The Department of Labor would not release the name of the worker who filed for unemployment.
Michael Merriam, an attorney for Milano’s, a company that owned Club Orleans since 2002, told ABC News that the ruling “was incorrectly decided.”
“The court relied almost entirely on the fact that we had some house rules which were requested by the dancers. They were designed to keep everything legal,” Merriam said. “And the court relied on that fact alone to say we had control over them and that made them employees.”
He said his client does not plan to appeal the decision.
“This is the Kansas Supreme Court. This is where it ends,” he said.
A spokeswoman for the Kansas Department of Labor said this ruling applies to the workers at issue in this case.
“All decisions concerning unemployment are based on the applicable law and the specific facts of each case,” she said.
Really interesting article in many facets.
1) Because most strippers are independent contractors, at the same time they do follow club regulations etc.
2) Lets not "beat around the bush," strippers make a ton of cash and most of it comes from "special lap dances" in the back room. Technically she'd be receiving unemployment for illegal acts. So I'm really curious how much this dancers is going to receive in unemployment. Strippers can average anywhere $500-1k+ a night.
|
|
