The Parthenon: A Warrior's Kyklos

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The Parthenon: A Warrior's Kyklos
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By Malaketth 2021-07-23 15:05:53
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At least it would give something real and not use bad math.

That said I maintain my own sheet for the very reasons people have started to see here with the flaws that are out there because people think they know how to edit an excel file when really all they can do is barely read an if statement. And even if you do know how to edit you get a copy of one that’s been touched by someone who doesn’t and there are so many corrections you are going to have to find and fix.

I saw a guy earlier talking about inserting data and doing that showed up in the drop down but adding to the end didn’t. This is simple stuff, these are named defined ranges someone set up so if it’s not in the established name range it doesn’t see it. You can either insert the data or go to the name manager and adjust the range. Things as easy as this people don’t know and screw up. Inserting by the way may screw up something else if they have locked ranges or done lookups on specific columns and rows which may or may not pick up the change depending how it was set up. And don’t get me started on the nested if statements which could easily be broken.

Ive been working on my war one for a while and still come across dumb ***I found that people have entered and it’s why I don’t share it either. Main thing though is I spreadsheet, and then I test to confirm which would show any major flaws.
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By SimonSes 2021-07-23 16:09:43
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Bahamut.Leonof said: »
With axe at 8000dps, 38600 avg ws, 2.34 rounds/ws

That WS avg is probably wrong. You probably dont add offhand hit at all. The avg should be way above 45k at attack cap with that posted set. I confronted it with my own WS calculation to find that was set up wrong in sheet. I added "1" in the offhand column where you have Decimation stats to fix it.
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By Bahamut.Leonof 2021-07-23 16:22:33
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SimonSes said: »
Bahamut.Leonof said: »
With axe at 8000dps, 38600 avg ws, 2.34 rounds/ws

That WS avg is probably wrong. You probably dont add offhand hit at all. The avg should be way above 45k at attack cap with that posted set. I confronted it with my own WS calculation to find that was set up wrong in sheet. I added "1" in the offhand column where you have Decimation stats to fix it.

If you think decimation does 45k average, you should be doing testing and posting the data, not pointing at your spreadsheet

a 45k average would prob put it ahead of naegling/savage blade
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By Crossbones 2021-07-23 16:28:02
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What kind of gimp *** WAR can't do 45k decimations, and also what kind of gimp *** WAR only does 45k SB? Lol my BRD does 45-50k SB and it isn't even a real DD.
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By SimonSes 2021-07-23 16:33:03
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Bahamut.Leonof said: »
SimonSes said: »
Bahamut.Leonof said: »
With axe at 8000dps, 38600 avg ws, 2.34 rounds/ws

That WS avg is probably wrong. You probably dont add offhand hit at all. The avg should be way above 45k at attack cap with that posted set. I confronted it with my own WS calculation to find that was set up wrong in sheet. I added "1" in the offhand column where you have Decimation stats to fix it.

If you think decimation does 45k average, you should be doing testing and posting the data, not pointing at your spreadsheet

a 45k average would prob put it ahead of naegling

I shouldn't be doing anything. If you don't believe it, then I don't really care. It's not my job and I don't have time to build proofs for my case here. It's only a game, if you feel I'm wrong, you can do test/math yourself or just keep believing it's not 45k+ but 38k. idgaf :)
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By Bahamut.Leonof 2021-07-23 16:44:24
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of course when you ask ppl on this forum to back up anything they say they start epeening or saying they dont care

pointing at a number that a ws can do isnt how averages work but w/e
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By Asura.Friedrik 2021-07-23 16:51:05
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Those aren't spike values.
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By Bahamut.Lexouritis 2021-07-23 16:51:38
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By SimonSes 2021-07-23 16:51:48
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Bahamut.Leonof said: »
of course when you ask ppl on this forum to back up anything they say they start epeening or saying they dont care

pointing at a number that a ws can do isnt how averages work but w/e

Im not sure what you are saying. I backed it up. I made a simple math on my own, outside of sheet. If that's not enough for you and you need practical test, then it's your problem. I don't have time to throw whatever I am doing now, switch jobs and prepare perfect environment to make 100+ WSs, just because you don't believe my calculations.
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By Cerberus.Darkvlade 2021-07-24 09:31:53
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Went to do a lil testing on Apex frogs for the Decimation set that was posted by Spaitlin earlier also on Simon recommendation also used for resolution, my sakpata is R0 buffs were Hmarch/Vmarch/Vminuet4/Vminuet5 indifury/geofrailty dragon steak, debuffs were dia2 Pnocturne and Carnage.

Saw a few 40k+ on both reso/deci but those weren't the norm, Used R15 Mont for Reso and Doli/blurred shield+1 for Deci (WAR/SAM).
took a few screenshots:
Screenshots here

Maybe I need to R15 Sakpata and accesories but time is limited to play lately.

Used same sets for both RESO/DECI:
sets.precast.WS['Resolution'].Acc = {
ammo="Crepuscular Pebble",
head="Sakpata's Helm",
neck="Fotia Gorget",
ear1="Schere Earring",
ear2="Lugra Earring +1",
body="Sakpata's Plate",
hands="Sakpata's Gauntlets",
ring1="Gelatinous Ring +1",
ring2="Niqmaddu Ring",
back=gear.WAR_STR_DA_JSE_back,
waist="Fotia Belt",
legs="Sakpata's Cuisses",
feet="Sakpata's Leggings"}

ps. got one like this but felt more like a spike was at 125TP like all the others.
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By Crossbones 2021-07-24 09:54:50
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Not having an offhand weapon for deci is gonna skew your results. Idk by how much but not a small enough difference that it should be ignored.
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By Spaitin 2021-07-24 10:10:59
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swap one of the earring for moonshade on reso and swap out gelatinous for regal on both.

Crossbones said: »
Not having an offhand weapon for deci is gonna skew your results. Idk by how much but not a small enough difference that it should be ignored.

You are correct.

Decimation should deff be a DW build. The new dagger is the best offhand. Should add like 8k to your decimation averages
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By Malaketth 2021-07-24 10:17:46
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I’m not sure you was capped accuracy with those buffs and food which is a huge part of decimation/reso.

I take that back you probably where cause those are low needed.
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By Cerberus.Shadowmeld 2021-07-24 11:07:24
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Spaitin said: »
swap one of the earring for moonshade on reso and swap out gelatinous for regal on both.

Crossbones said: »
Not having an offhand weapon for deci is gonna skew your results. Idk by how much but not a small enough difference that it should be ignored.

You are correct.

Decimation should deff be a DW build. The new dagger is the best offhand. Should add like 8k to your decimation averages

3% chr adds that much? That doesn’t seem right

Edit: unless you’re talking about going from no offhand to crepuscular. I’d think in terms of ws damage, sangarius +1 should be comparable to crepuscular knife. I think knife has a likely good advantage in tp generation though
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By SimonSes 2021-07-24 11:20:29
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Not chr adds that much but additional hit. It's whole another hit, even considering that dagger low base damage additional hit will add a lot, because it's WS with ftp replication on each hit.

Also 5%QA will add a lot of multiattack on avg.

In sheet that dagger doesn't beat Sangarius tho. I have them almost at the same DPS. Kinda depends what gear you use for TP and I don't check for Fighter s roll, because I never get it outside of Bumba where this build doesn't make sense anyway, because no sub job and whole fight is with warcry.
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By Cerberus.Shadowmeld 2021-07-24 11:22:27
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Right, I think I misunderstood that he was talking about going from no offhand to dagger
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By SimonSes 2021-07-24 11:22:59
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Cerberus.Shadowmeld said: »
Edit: unless you’re talking about going from no offhand to crepuscular. I’d think in terms of ws damage, sangarius +1 should be comparable to crepuscular knife. I think knife has a likely good advantage in tp generation though

Yeah he means going from shield to offhand, because Darkvlade used blurred shield offhand.
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By SimonSes 2021-07-24 11:29:50
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Also remember, for avg damage you can't count Deci or Reso that killed a mob. Multihit WS will only do amount of hits it's needed to kill a mob. If mob has 20k HP and you make Decimation, it will only do like 3 hits for 20k+ and rest of the hits will be cancelled. It's often a reason why 1hit WS looks better on parse in something like Odyssey. Savage Blade can do 50k on target with 5k HP which looks cool on parse, but in reality you only did 5k.
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By Malaketth 2021-07-24 11:30:00
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Cerberus.Darkvlade said: »
Went to do a lil testing on Apex frogs for the Decimation set that was posted by Spaitlin earlier also on Simon recommendation also used for resolution, my sakpata is R0 buffs were Hmarch/Vmarch/Vminuet4/Vminuet5 indifury/geofrailty dragon steak, debuffs were dia2 Pnocturne and Carnage.

Saw a few 40k+ on both reso/deci but those weren't the norm, Used R15 Mont for Reso and Doli/blurred shield+1 for Deci (WAR/SAM).
took a few screenshots:
Screenshots here

Maybe I need to R15 Sakpata and accesories but time is limited to play lately.

Used same sets for both RESO/DECI:
sets.precast.WS['Resolution'].Acc = {
ammo="Crepuscular Pebble",
head="Sakpata's Helm",
neck="Fotia Gorget",
ear1="Schere Earring",
ear2="Lugra Earring +1",
body="Sakpata's Plate",
hands="Sakpata's Gauntlets",
ring1="Gelatinous Ring +1",
ring2="Niqmaddu Ring",
back=gear.WAR_STR_DA_JSE_back,
waist="Fotia Belt",
legs="Sakpata's Cuisses",
feet="Sakpata's Leggings"}

ps. got one like this but felt more like a spike was at 125TP like all the others.


I forgot my Sang +1 so this is with the Zantetsuken which has a lower base damage. Just to help illustrate the lack of off Hand was what was skewing you lower than anticipated.



With the higher base D of the Sang+1 we would have had 45K+ avg there. Also with full proper buffs like boost str you probably push 50K with that. This aligns with spreadsheets if done correctly.
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By Asura.Eiryl 2021-07-24 11:35:14
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 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2021-07-24 11:55:48
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Malaketth said: »
At least it would give something real and not use bad math.

That said I maintain my own sheet for the very reasons people have started to see here with the flaws that are out there because people think they know how to edit an excel file when really all they can do is barely read an if statement. And even if you do know how to edit you get a copy of one that’s been touched by someone who doesn’t and there are so many corrections you are going to have to find and fix.

I saw a guy earlier talking about inserting data and doing that showed up in the drop down but adding to the end didn’t. This is simple stuff, these are named defined ranges someone set up so if it’s not in the established name range it doesn’t see it. You can either insert the data or go to the name manager and adjust the range. Things as easy as this people don’t know and screw up. Inserting by the way may screw up something else if they have locked ranges or done lookups on specific columns and rows which may or may not pick up the change depending how it was set up. And don’t get me started on the nested if statements which could easily be broken.

Ive been working on my war one for a while and still come across dumb ***I found that people have entered and it’s why I don’t share it either. Main thing though is I spreadsheet, and then I test to confirm which would show any major flaws.

Honestly this is a real limitation of excel, it's not designed to do complex simulations for combat in a video game. I prefer the results from some of the python simulations that have been circulating out there, though I wish more were released to the public for usage.
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By Malaketth 2021-07-24 11:58:55
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It’s a limit of the person using it. Now it’s by no means easy but it can be done. I doubt many people have taken classes or created analytical scenarios within excel or used the addons that allow for this deeper level of complexity.
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By Asura.Saevel 2021-07-24 12:03:39
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While you can use a wrench to knock a nail into a board, a hammer or nailgun is better suited for that task. When building a solution, it's best to use the tools designed to attack the problem instead of trying to ducktape it with a more familiar tool. We could use nodeJS to write a simulation and with all the web centric stuff being pushed in universities I'm surprised someone hasn't tried. Yet Python or Perl are much better suited for that, even C# if someone wants to go hardcore and easily attach a GUI on it.
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By Ramuh.Austar 2021-07-24 12:20:16
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I make the front end in C# and backend in Python3 for mine.
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 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2021-07-24 12:35:01
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So on the topic of Resolution sets, haven't messed with mine in awhile. Is Gavialis helm and it's 30/256 fTP worth it still? Also what content doesn't nerf geo-fragility these days?
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By Fenrir.Skarwind 2021-07-24 13:00:42
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Asura.Saevel said: »
So on the topic of Resolution sets, haven't messed with mine in awhile. Is Gavialis helm and it's 30/256 fTP worth it still? Also what content doesn't nerf geo-fragility these days?


HELM doesn't seem worth it if capped atk. (Atleast on the DRG end of things it got dumped for Gleti.)

I'd imagine for Resolution, Sakpata is much better.
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By Cerberus.Darkvlade 2021-07-24 13:49:37
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From top pic, Using /DNC and R15 Sanga, 1st one was at 300tp, next was at 125tp
then a 3rd also 125tp

some more

Spike I'll presume
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By SimonSes 2021-07-24 13:54:13
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Tp doesn't matter. It doesn't scale with TP.
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By Spaitin 2021-07-24 17:43:48
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Seething Bomblet beats out Crepuscular stone unless you have fighters roll. Then Crepuscular Stone Wins. Sang mildly edges out the new dagger.


Also, fencer hexa-strike builds are hilariously fun.
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By Aricomfy 2021-07-24 22:16:00
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Spaitin said: »
Also, fencer hexa-strike builds are hilariously fun

What are you averaging? I really enjoy Judgement and Black Halo on WAR but haven't tried Hexa yet.
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