The Parthenon: A Warrior's Kyklos

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2020-09-10
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The Parthenon: A Warrior's Kyklos
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 Asura.Memes
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By Asura.Memes 2020-09-15 09:45:58
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So what does a 3/3 ten+1 TP set look like?
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By Spaitin 2020-09-15 10:04:10
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Asura.Memes said: »
So what does a 3/3 ten+1 TP set look like?
Youb mean 4/4? Pretty good.

ItemSet 375415
This would be a really good set.
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By SimonSes 2020-09-15 10:18:42
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Im not a war expert but I would guess this 100% da consistency is mostly great for 2h weapons, especially 3hit builds. Not so much for fencers builds or dw.
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By Spaitin 2020-09-15 10:41:03
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SimonSes said: »
Im not a war expert but I would guess this 100% da consistency is mostly great for 2h weapons, especially 3hit builds. Not so much for fencers builds or dw.
It isn't as good as It used to be. The 100 da builds gets you to was every 2 attack rounds. So does the set above, but with more overflow, and in 1 attack round 19%is of the time. They work the same on fencer, just different number of attack rounds. DW is obviously in a different category.

Edit** you would actually get TP in 1 attack round around 50% of the time. This is a non fighters roll set.
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By Lili 2020-09-15 10:53:46
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Spaitin said: »
Youb mean 4/4? Pretty good.

ItemSet 375415
This would be a really good set.

This is a 3/4 Tatenashi set. You have Odyssean legs in there.
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By SimonSes 2020-09-15 10:58:57
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Spaitin said: »
SimonSes said: »
Im not a war expert but I would guess this 100% da consistency is mostly great for 2h weapons, especially 3hit builds. Not so much for fencers builds or dw.
It isn't as good as It used to be. The 100 da builds gets you to was every 2 attack rounds. So does the set above, but with more overflow, and in 1 attack round 19%is of the time. They work the same on fencer, just different number of attack rounds. DW is obviously in a different category.

Wait, I tho 100DA Fighter's roll build was 3hit build, so 1 round to 1000+ TP after WS and that Tatenashi set is not 100%DA with fighter's, but has much more TA, so sometimes it would require 2 rounds to 1000+ TP?
 Asura.Memes
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By Asura.Memes 2020-09-15 11:11:44
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I thought what was being said was that WS plus 2 attack rounds (4 hits with 100% DA) would be 1000TP. A 5-hit build, but 3 rounds?
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By Spaitin 2020-09-15 11:20:09
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SimonSes said: »
Wait, I tho 100DA Fighter's roll build was 3hit build, so 1 round to 1000+ TP after WS and that Tatenashi set is not 100%DA with fighter's, but has much more TA, so sometimes it would require 2 rounds to 1000+ TP?
Oh, you jumped into a non fighters roll TP set discussion.
SimonSes said: »
Im not a war expert but I would guess this 100% da consistency is mostly great for 2h weapons
You didnt state the 100 DA 3 hit build so I assumed the 100 DA non fighters roll TP set. My bad.

Fighters roll TP set is 100 DA 15 TA 3 QA with a 3 hit build (WS + 1 Attack round). It is also BIS for fencer. The 100 DA is super important to that set because it guarantees your max frequency. With all the TP bonus war gets, WS frequency is better than TP overflow.

For non fighters roll, the set I posted above is better than the 100 DA non fighters roll sets. It has much higher frequency. It also gets to a 3 hit build instead of a 4 hit build with Sams roll.

SimonSes said: »
Not so much for fencers builds or dw.


Obviously, none of these have anything to do with the DW sets. They don't have DW in them. I have not looked at them yet, But I imagine they just have tatenashi body as the best piece now.

They are great for fencer builds. Obviously a different number of attack rounds because single handed weapons get much lower TP a hit. They do have faster attack rounds though, and Retaliation is double on fencer. Fencer is a 5 hit build with the fighters roll set.


Asura.Memes said: »
I thought what was being said was that WS plus 2 attack rounds (4 hits with 100% DA) would be 1000TP. A 5-hit build, but 3 rounds?
The old non fighters roll TP set that has 100 DA is a 5 hit build that Sams roll brings to a 4 hit. Meaning 2 attack rounds per WS about 95% of the time. That 3/4 tatenashi set I posted is a 4 hit build that sams roll brings to a 3 hit build. It will actually get you a far higher TP frequency and DPS than the old 100 DA TP build.

Lili said: »
This is a 3/4 Tatenashi set. You have Odyssean legs in there.
When I originally made it I had 4/4 tatenashi, but swapping in an 8 stp augmented Ody piece got more TP per attack round. Should have changed that in the description, sorry. I am still playing with that set. I could see some other leg/feet combinations being as good or better.

In short, for general TP I recommend this for non fighters roll. With sam, 3 hit build. Will get to 1000% TP in 1 attack round about 85%% of the time and guarantee 1000% TP in 2 (unless acc is an issue). I am not positive on the non fighters roll set yet. Still playing with a few other swaps. Legs feet might be overall better with pummelers or DA augmented ody. Not sure yet, might still have room for improvement.
ItemSet 375415

And this for fighters roll. This set will guarantee 1000% TP in 1 attack round and will occasionally do an extra 350ish more about 18% of the time. If you have rostam cor, swap earrings for telos and dedition and do pummeler legs.
ItemSet 375308

They are both BISish for 2hand and Fencer. This does not account for durability. Two moonlight rings are great swaps for those rings. On the fighter's roll set you can swap the legs and earrings for telos/bruta/pummeler to make it more flexible.
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 Quetzalcoatl.Jakey
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By Quetzalcoatl.Jakey 2020-09-15 12:00:07
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Be careful about Vim Torque +1 tp builds since it drains 50 hp per tic, these days that shouldn't be too hard to deal with but there's a lot of lazy healers out there. Also for those unaware it does wake you up when you are slept so that's a handy trick.

I'm also not looking froward to switching unity every week for max store tp for builds with this gear.
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By Spaitin 2020-09-15 12:03:04
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Quetzalcoatl.Jakey said: »
Also for those unaware it does wake you up when you are slept so that's a handy trick.
VIM torque is amazing. I love it lol. the 50 HP a tick is meh to me. But i have a pocket whm so idk.

Quetzalcoatl.Jakey said: »
I'm also not looking froward to switching unity every week for max store tp for builds with this gear.
Yeah, that will be kinda lame. But war gets soooo much out of it now. You dont have to be in the top unity. Just one of the top unity.

War not only got 3 bis TP pieces, they are by FAR the best TP pieces for those slots. You could also argue war got 4 BIS TP pieces. Those feet are really good too.
 Siren.Itachi
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By Siren.Itachi 2020-09-15 13:09:31
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Question for you all, how often are you in TP set versus Hybrid set? I find when I'm doing Omen/Dyna/Ambu it's better to just play it safe and live in hybrid.

The price of R15ing 3 pieces of tatenashi and then not using it would bug me. Though maybe that's just something wrong with my mindset of "Dead DD does no DD" where I strive for survive-ability first.
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By Spaitin 2020-09-15 13:16:25
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Siren.Itachi said: »
Question for you all, how often are you in TP set versus Hybrid set? I find when I'm doing Omen/Dyna/Ambu it's better to just play it safe and live in hybrid.

The price of R15ing 3 pieces of tatenashi and then not using it would bug me. Though maybe that's just something wrong with my mindset of "Dead DD does no DD" where I strive for survive-ability first.
I am usually in a TP set. Most stuff isnt that dangerous. But the "Hybrid set" is so good that you are completely justified using it as a your only TP set.

Omen, ambu i rarely use hybrd. Dyna D i tend to use the MEVA set or the Hybrid set.

I personally would only r15 2 tatenashi and the vim torque. Then maybe antitail/macabre/montate. maybe a few others.
 Siren.Itachi
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By Siren.Itachi 2020-09-15 13:20:13
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K I like that response. I will just have to test out the waters of TP set vs hybrid set. And you are right, I feel like nowadays there's little sacrifice of going hybrid set (at least for the jobs I play war has odin set and moonshade rings while other jobs get malig) but now with this new tatenashi gear I really like the WS frequency that seems to come with it
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By Spaitin 2020-09-15 13:23:21
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Siren.Itachi said: »
K I like that response. I will just have to test out the waters of TP set vs hybrid set. And you are right, I feel like nowadays there's little sacrifice of going hybrid set (at least for the jobs I play war has odin set and moonshade rings while other jobs get malig) but now with this new tatenashi gear I really like the WS frequency that seems to come with it


ItemSet 367123

With fighters roll and sams roll you have the same frequency as the tatenashi fighters roll set with this one. You just wont over TP as often. It is a very good all around set. Only real weakness is MEVA. I would like to find a way to swap out some of the DA in this set for something else. Maybe flamma feet. It actually has too much DA for fighters roll. Maybe macabre hands?

With sam/fighter you are looking at 100 DA and 3 hit build. So max frequency. With just sam you are looking at a 3 hit build with a 85% ish chance of getting TP in 1 attack round. Same thing though, you won't over TP as often.

Sidenote
Hmm. tatenashi legs are beating out argosy for resolution. Very slightly though. Might have to get those legs too lol. They are not as flimsy.
 Siren.Itachi
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By Siren.Itachi 2020-09-15 13:57:59
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Spaitin said: »

Sidenote
Hmm. tatenashi legs are beating out argosy for resolution. Very slightly though. Might have to get those legs too lol. They are not as flimsy.

Question on this. When would you use a great sword over R15 chango? I got an R15 Ragnarok (that I made for no reason in hindsight) that I don't use much. I'm assuming when you do want to Reso it's because you don't want to make skillchain (like that reisenjima helm worm) and you'd want to use Raetic over Ragnarok?

Though I have to say I prefer Fencer & Savage Blade in those scenarios
 Asura.Memes
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By Asura.Memes 2020-09-15 15:01:10
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I'm sure I tossed the legs more than once chasing the sword (which is useless now anyway?). Wonder if MNK BRD WHM can trio it with ease now?
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By Taint 2020-09-15 15:11:22
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Asura.Memes said: »
I'm sure I tossed the legs more than once chasing the sword (which is useless now anyway?). Wonder if MNK BRD WHM can trio it with ease now?

Incredibly easy fight with that set up. DD,BRD,Healer.
 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2020-09-15 15:17:42
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Siren.Itachi said: »
Question on this. When would you use a great sword over R15 chango?

Carry both; It's just another tool in the toolkit. R15 Montante +1 actually pairs excellently with R15 Tatenashi +1 pieces, given the same exact STP+TA stats present on the base item. The extra accuracy makes it somewhat easier to use, though I'm not super crazy about the augments. +170 HP in the weapon slot that won't be swapped out is actually pretty amazing imo, don't sleep on supplemental stats.

Taint said: »
Asura.Memes said: »
I'm sure I tossed the legs more than once chasing the sword (which is useless now anyway?). Wonder if MNK BRD WHM can trio it with ease now?

Incredibly easy fight with that set up. DD,BRD,Healer.

Some PUGs will struggle with it still, but I just did it for some people and Carol + Attunement + Barfira and Sarama is practically a joke. You can solo it if you have a good Monk or BLU and Meva set, using the appropriate trusts. The sword (R15 Tanmoyagi +1) seems like just a high acc offhand for something like BLU if for some reason Thibron wasn't working. Don't think WAR would need that. Maybe Vorpal Blade?
 Asura.Memes
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By Asura.Memes 2020-09-15 15:26:32
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I got it for casual BLU ages ago. I also meant 3boxing (no hax) when I said those jobs. Only annoying part I remember was paralyze hitting WHM sometimes and being unable to cure bomb.
 Lakshmi.Buukki
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2020-09-15 15:37:24
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Monberaux can handle that.
 Asura.Yizzy
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By Asura.Yizzy 2020-09-16 05:29:08
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Spaitin said: »
Asura.Memes said: »
Why is tat+1 R15 body not bis regardless of fighters roll?
It is BIS regardless of fighters roll. The 100 DA build just has consistency which a lot of people like. Going 93 DA is fine when you add 5 TA and 6 STP. And a lot of warriors are big onto the 100 DA, but it is not the best you can do for TP gain. It is really good for consistency and people like that.
Asura.Yizzy said: »
So is this BiS currently? or just an idea of what to shoot for?
That set is good, but not BIS for non fighter roll TP gain.
ItemSet 375409
This set is about BIS, some arguments for different pieces. You can swap in Tatenashi hand and body if you want. Would make your overall TP gain better, but less consistent.

Any recommendations if dont have Pumm +3 legs/feet? currently just +1, working on cards
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By Spaitin 2020-09-16 05:37:50
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Asura.Yizzy said: »
Spaitin said: »
Asura.Memes said: »
Why is tat+1 R15 body not bis regardless of fighters roll?
It is BIS regardless of fighters roll. The 100 DA build just has consistency which a lot of people like. Going 93 DA is fine when you add 5 TA and 6 STP. And a lot of warriors are big onto the 100 DA, but it is not the best you can do for TP gain. It is really good for consistency and people like that.
Asura.Yizzy said: »
So is this BiS currently? or just an idea of what to shoot for?
That set is good, but not BIS for non fighter roll TP gain.
ItemSet 375409
This set is about BIS, some arguments for different pieces. You can swap in Tatenashi hand and body if you want. Would make your overall TP gain better, but less consistent.

Any recommendations if dont have Pumm +3 legs/feet? currently just +1, working on cards

If you don't have tatenashi either. Then odyssean legs and flamma feet. Just bear in mind that set is really far behind the sets posted above. The tatenashi set changes the non fighters roll set a lot. I was actually a bit off on the non fighters roll set. I no longer recommend that one. Better options exist.
 Asura.Yizzy
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By Asura.Yizzy 2020-09-16 05:49:36
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Spaitin said: »
Asura.Yizzy said: »
Spaitin said: »
Asura.Memes said: »
Why is tat+1 R15 body not bis regardless of fighters roll?
It is BIS regardless of fighters roll. The 100 DA build just has consistency which a lot of people like. Going 93 DA is fine when you add 5 TA and 6 STP. And a lot of warriors are big onto the 100 DA, but it is not the best you can do for TP gain. It is really good for consistency and people like that.
Asura.Yizzy said: »
So is this BiS currently? or just an idea of what to shoot for?
That set is good, but not BIS for non fighter roll TP gain.
ItemSet 375409
This set is about BIS, some arguments for different pieces. You can swap in Tatenashi hand and body if you want. Would make your overall TP gain better, but less consistent.

Any recommendations if dont have Pumm +3 legs/feet? currently just +1, working on cards

If you don't have tatenashi either. Then odyssean legs and flamma feet. Just bear in mind that set is really far behind the sets posted above. The tatenashi set changes the non fighters roll set a lot. I was actually a bit off on the non fighters roll set. I no longer recommend that one. Better options exist.

Gotcha, will have to make due for now. Ty for the help.
 Fairy.Trig
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By Fairy.Trig 2020-09-16 18:56:38
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Re: grips, are we utu for everything? Or does Rigorous grip +1 R15 have a place for ukko's or resolution?

STR+19, acc+3, att+45
vs
HP+70 Accuracy+30 Attack+30 Weapon skill DEX +10%
 Asura.Veikur
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By Asura.Veikur 2020-09-16 19:16:23
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STR+19 is 14-15 base damage (50%STR) for Full Break/King's Justice, 20-21(85%STR) for Resolution/Stardiver. 23-24 (100%STR) for Impulse Drive.

150/210/240 DEX for the respective weapon skills will have Utu always on par with or winning.

Upheaval is no contest.
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By Lili 2020-09-17 11:55:34
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Asura.Veikur said: »
150/210/240 DEX for the respective weapon skills will have Utu always on par with or winning.

For reference, I went through all my 2h WS sets for War, and the lowest one had 110+144=254 DEX (Upheaval), while the highest one had 110+181=291 DEX (Resolution). These are all bis-or-very-close-to-bis sets.

Conclusion: Rigorous can be a decent option at mid-range when you still don't have Argosy+1/AF+3/Relic+3/Omen accessories (and thus your base stats are a little lower), but once you do then Utu wins all the way.

(Besides, nobody is ever going to gear Full Break for damage)
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By Spaitin 2020-09-17 13:00:19
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Been playing around with the old 100 DA set. I usually ignored it since I used Fighters roll all the time. I realized now that it was actually kinda stupid to do the 100 DA set. You get a 5 hit build that brings you down to a 4 hit build with sams roll. Meaning 1 WS +2 attack rounds got you TP. If you swapped the val body for an STP augmented one and the feet for flamma then did 8 STP on the ody legs and added ainia collar. You got a 4 hit build that got brought down to a 3 hit build with sams roll. The 3 hit build had a 70% chance of getting TP in 1 attack round and 100% chance of doing it in 2. This makes the 3hit build MASSIVELY better than the 100 DA build for non fighters roll situations.

I am sorry I never caught that. I usually don't do non fighters roll situations. But yeah, the 100 DA non fighters build has always been a bad/stupid build. Been a big hit to dps for a long time.

I only recommend the 100 DA build if you don't have sam or fighters roll. Otherwise it is a giant hit to your DPS. Much better to do a 3 hit build with sam roll.
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 Cerberus.Caius
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By Cerberus.Caius 2020-09-23 18:18:48
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Forgive my ignorance as it seems a lot of the back and forth everyone seems to be on the same page. However as these threads are often used by returning or new players to try and catch up with the meta and such....the elephant in the room for me is...

Has anyone or could anyone create a outline of what augments are required on Valorous or Odyssean gear to make them BIS and usable in some of these discussed sets?

I see multiple threads that toss this Escha gear around but a lot of time its not clear what the augments are(at least to me) to make them usable over other pieces. Reading the discussions it seems like it should be already known or assumed what the augments are being used, but with the range of possibilities im curious to know what specifically is being put on these pieces to make them better than everything else in his specific application/sets.
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