The Parthenon: A Warrior's Kyklos |
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The Parthenon: A Warrior's Kyklos
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I parsed several dyna bosses, SC dmg is huge contribution, dunno what saevel is smoking right now but i want some.
I'm pretty sure he's talking zerg only mobs. Kirin/Woc etc. ***that dies in 90sec or less. In that short time span with everyone going all out and in most cases Reso spamming, Skillchains are much less likely. Where a dyna boss with is shear number of HP is more of an endurance fight and obviously Skillchains can and should be worked in there.
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1) I count RUN tank as DDs because I like faster runs. So I whip them until they start DDing. :D so yeah in a 6 man pt there are at least 3 person count as dps. 2 of them happened to main fragmentation ws.
2) we can keep talking about how sc never happen in theory if everyone spams. In reality, they do. Don't ask me why, ask the game. >.> 3) discussing scoreboard v.s Kparser is completely missing the point. You don't need Kparser to see SC can happen. Offline
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Sylph.Darkside said: » I'm pretty sure he's talking zerg only mobs. Kirin/Woc etc. ***that dies in 90sec or less. In that short time span with everyone going all out and in most cases Reso spamming, Skillchains are much less likely. Where a dyna boss with is shear number of HP is more of an endurance fight and obviously Skillchains can and should be worked in there. Here is the thing, when this entire discussion just started, we didn't specify WoC or ambuscade or dyna. And I certainly agree that reso is better on WoC because MS. It's very obvious that Saevel favors multi stepping with cor in ambu and tank not DDing, but that's not the case some other people. If NM takes good amount of sc dmg, and run cor both DDing, then sc will contribute significant amount of dmg if WAR uses upheaval instead of resolution. Afania said: » 1) I count RUN tank as DDs because I like faster runs. So I whip them until they start DDing. :D so yeah in a 6 man pt there are at least 3 person count as dps. 2 of them happened to main fragmentation ws. 2) we can keep talking about how sc never happen in theory if everyone spams. In reality, they do. Don't ask me why, ask the game. >.> 3) discussing scoreboard v.s Kparser is completely missing the point. You don't need Kparser to see SC can happen. Parse vs SB is a viable point as I have seen on many occasion SB putting in Skillchains dmg that doesn't exist. Not all the skillchain dmg is wrong but its not accurate. This actually helps your point as SB also doesn't calculate Radiance or Umbra into skillchain Dmg. That's my only point here. Zergs skillchains do happen however they are less likely to happen as the length of zerg fights is typically pretty short and therefore skillchain dmg is not as big a contributing factor as it would be in say a Dyna boss fight etc. Lets use this example, if you have Run, War and Drk all doing Reso spam, the only 1 that can skillchain is the Run and that's only if he's got Lionheart. Again, if you use SB here the numbers will be skewed because if the Run hits a Radiance its not going to show up and the skillchain dmg reported is not correct. I would have the Cor doing Savage Blade spam which also unfortunately doesn't skillchain with Reso. Lakshmi.Buukki
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Sylph.Darkside said: » Lets use this example, if you have Run, War and Drk all doing Reso spam In a realistic scenario, DRK is spamming Torcleaver, and that does chain with Resolution. Sylph.Darkside said: » I'm pretty sure he's talking zerg only mobs Not like I haven't said that a half dozen times already. WS spam situations are by definition zerg style fights. geigei said: » I parsed several dyna bosses, SC dmg is huge contribution, dunno what saevel is smoking right now but i want some. Learn to read. Lakshmi.Buukki said: » Sylph.Darkside said: » Lets use this example, if you have Run, War and Drk all doing Reso spam In a realistic scenario, DRK is spamming Torcleaver, and that does chain with Resolution. DRK + WAR + RUN will produce very few SC's in their all going full out, even if they used compatible WS's. The DRK and WAR alone will be WSing every few seconds with the RUN's time depending on how much their devoting to "tanking" vs "DDing". If it's just WAR + DRK and they are using compatible SC's and are willing to hold a few seconds they could sync their TP gain such that each is WSing 3s after the other one, both will be riding at near 2K TP but that's fine cause SC damage. But hey not like you even bother reading or even know how SC's form. Offline
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Sylph.Darkside said: » Afania said: » 1) I count RUN tank as DDs because I like faster runs. So I whip them until they start DDing. :D so yeah in a 6 man pt there are at least 3 person count as dps. 2 of them happened to main fragmentation ws. 2) we can keep talking about how sc never happen in theory if everyone spams. In reality, they do. Don't ask me why, ask the game. >.> 3) discussing scoreboard v.s Kparser is completely missing the point. You don't need Kparser to see SC can happen. Not you. My post was direct toward Saevels claim that SC almost never happen with 2+ DD, which is false. Sylph.Darkside said: » Parse vs SB is a viable point as I have seen on many occasion SB putting in Skillchains dmg that doesn't exist. Yeah sure, but my post was not direct toward you again, but about someone went on bashing scoreboard as "eyeballing" and Kparser is much better tool when tool quality wasn't the point. You don't need a 100% accurate tool to see SC can happen. I'm not here to argue SC worth 10% pt dps, or 20% or 30%. I'm only saying "SC almost never happen with 2+ DD" is false. Sylph.Darkside said: » I would have the Cor doing Savage Blade spam which also unfortunately doesn't skillchain with Reso. Reso doesn't sc with savage blade is the entire reason why people fight for upheaval here. Upheaval just has MUCH better SC property, and not far behind reso without MS. Probably even stronger this update. Sylph.Darkside said: » This actually helps your point as SB also doesn't calculate Radiance or Umbra into skillchain Dmg I honestly think that one of the mods gets sexually excited with this stuff to allow it to constantly go on. Same argument, same 2-3 people, same *** forum.
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Bismarck.Gippali said: » I honestly think that one of the mods gets sexually excited with this stuff to allow it to constantly go on. Same argument, same 2-3 people, same *** forum. DirectX said: » How about not arguing about the past which is irrelevant and put new weapons through spreadsheet already? Pretending SC don't exist, let's see the numbers. Almost done updating the Spreadsheets, Direct. Changed the cRatio cap, added gear sets and bonuses, all I have to do now is add WAR’s Gift Bonuses (Acc,Attack,DA,etc) into the Data Page (or was it Melee Page? Not at my PC) so everything is accurate. I’m not fully excel savvy so I’m not able to add a string for Smite II (+19.5% Attack for 2-H) so will have to just apply it to Utu Grip instead for now. Whoever’s been keeping the DRG sheer updated has been doing fantastic; lots of tables and strings added, fully detailed COR BRD and GEO buffs and stuff.. bravo. I’ve been working 13 hour night shifts or I’d be done already, sorry for the wait. I want to know where things stand now too. Lakshmi.Buukki said: » Amazing how often you move the goal post whenever someone debunks your BS. Never moved the goal posts once. Instead people keep redefining their statements. Quote: The result was people not understanding the SC window with a minimum wait time making it such that 2+ DD's almost never SC, solo DD always SC's and just 2 DD's SC sometimes. People who have personal problems decide to reinterpret "sometimes" and "almost never" in a WS spam situation as "absolutely never in all situations". I call people out on their BS and they fly into a rage and make things personal. Everything said so far as been just a giant strawman argument. Hell it's even here https://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Category:Skillchain Quote: Skillchains take place when two abilities with appropriate skillchain properties are used subsequently, in a valid order, and within a the necessary time window (3-10 seconds). The following abilities can give Skillchain properties: Two DD's who both have a ~4s average cycle time will be going with 1~3s of each other, meaning the majority of their WS's will be within 1~2s and thus not past the 3s period required for a SC to form, occasionally the timing will line up such that one is going 3s after the other one and you can get a SC. Going beyond 2 DD's and the probability of there being at least 3s between WS's gets really small. It's the 3s minimum window that is the wall here. DD's wsing withing 1s of each other will not produce a SC, wsing within 2s of each other will not produce a SC, there needs to be 3s of time elapsed between WS's. High end buffs DD's get TP every ~4 seconds on average, in order for there to be any significant amount of "random SC's" occurring they would need to be WSing every ~6s, even longer for more then 2 DD's. Now there are two ways around it, if it's just 2 DD's they could try to wait on each other and sync their TP moves, they sacrifice quite a bit of damage going from 4s average cycle to 6~7s average cycle (minimum required in order for non-stop SC's to occur), so there must be a really good reason like the target taking bonus damage from SC's. In that situation it's almost always better to do a coordinated multi-step as that would yield far better results then playing slow and hoping for the best. The second way is to just be dumb and either have really slow reaction times or be under-buffed and only getting TP to WS every 6~7 seconds naturally. Nowhere has anyone said or shown anything that disproves the above statement. It's all about average cycle time and that 3s minimum period for a window to form. If SE lowered that window to 1s then everything would change. What I usually see is people trying to use 6 man setups focusing on doing SC's to argue against "more then 2 DD's in a zerg will rarely see SC's", which is like saying that lemons aren't sour because potatoes are brown. Or more precisely "SC's occur in zergs because Chewbacca lives on Endor". In WS spam situations with multiple DD's the total SC damage will amount to low to mid single digits, less then 5~10% of the WS's done will form a SC. So to remind people.
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Sylph.Shadowlina said: » This is a guide So can someone run the simulator on Upheaval vs Resolution assuming WS spam and no SC?
They seem really close to me at 1000-1250tp Also, does the ftp bonus of resolution applies to all the hits when you get higher TP? Like 1750+250 would give 1.5ftp on each of the hit? i can do it by hand if you give me all the stats I'd need
Leviathan.Andret said: » Also, does the ftp bonus of resolution applies to all the hits when you get higher TP? Like 1750+250 would give 1.5ftp on each of the hit? Yes, the fTP is transferred across all hits. Leviathan.Andret said: » They seem really close to me at 1000-1250tp They are, everything I've done has Resolution edging it out but that was before the recent update. With the updated Chango Upheaval should win now but I'd still like to be sure that what we think the bonus does it actually does. Alright DirectX, I redownloaded Byrth's updated WAR Spreadsheet, Only had to add some Set bonuses, DEX Mod for Utu Grip and other small stuff.
Ragnarok - Aug loses to Montante in raw WS Damage, Wins slightly during Mighty Strikes + Brazen Rush in WS Damage (by literally 350~) So in the grand scheme of things, it'll be a case of if you need Acc, use Rag. If you don't, use Monte. Also have lots of other fun things to share and I'll be posting all results complete with pictures when I get home from work so Early Morning or afternoon incase I pass out when I get home lol. Link to Byrth's Spreadsheet if anyone wants to play around with things themselves: https://drive.google.com/file/d/19YIAvnHiitx2YSWa-jQ31GlRCgteuQgK/view Like I said, only thing missing was a 10% DEX mod for Utu grip and Set Boosts for things like Argosy and Lustratio. Both can be added at the 'Other Lists' Tab. If you don't know how to create your own strings (I don't) simply take one of the existing tables that aren't needed (Like Askar or Lava) and change the names and values to something you actually need referenced. As long as the Gears have the same exact name, the spreadsheet will pick it up and apply set bonuses accordingly; ex: Flamma +2 Well I plugged in the numbers using the spreadsheets. I used the front page gear low-mid acc gear. Capped Atk...etc.
Un-augmented Chango looses to Montante+1 by like 40DPS but wins once you use Warcry by 39-ish DPS. Roughly 1% since 5100+ DPS. Aug-Chango wins at 115+ DPS without Warcry. About 300+ DPS with Warcry. I think if a SC proc every once in a while for even 5% of the total damage then Chango probably wins. Ok fixed the spreedsheet, was missing tons of gear and stuff. The DA Damage+ isn't in there but that's just for TP Phase and not really important here. Also doesn't have Honor March and doesn't allow song+ above 5, hell doesn't have any of the new BRD updates. Doesn't have support for Boost-VIT though Boost-STR is there, 25 STR would help Reso more then 25 VIT would help Upheaval. Also the DEX +10% benefits Resolution ~slightly~ more then Upheaval because Reso's gear has more DEX on it, it's only a few points though.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/1ebowdc5088xtpn/DPS%20Calculator%20-%20War%20-%20160513.ods?dl=0 Here are the screen captures, Montante +1 Resolution wins against Chango Upheaval by a fairly small margin This is @1000 TP https://www.dropbox.com/s/602tg8yijgqqx1m/Resolution%20vs%20Upheaval%201K.png?dl=0 And @1250 TP (Chango @2K) which is when Upheaval changes modes https://www.dropbox.com/s/9cd7rnrpkgknsf2/Resolution%20vs%20Upheaval%201250.png?dl=0 With new Chango update it should now beat it. Interesting note, if I use Carbonara for food the total DPS of Montante +1 pulls further ahead of Chango though the WS average drops slightly. The cause of this is the WS cycle time going from 301 (1.78 Rounds per WS) to 257 (1.35 Rounds per WS) while Upheaval doesn't change. I'm using lucky (not perfect) Samurai's Roll with Regal and lucky (not perfect) Fighter's Roll with Regal and Job bonus. Changing to perfect helps both for total damage but doesn't change the dynamic. Basically the extra TP return from Resolution (lots of Store TP in the WS set) push's the number of hits required down for less TP overage but more WS's per minute. That being said I wouldn't trust total DPS very much because it's lacking the 20~31% bonus damage from DA's which is a significant boost to melee phase DPS. I was specifically looking for average WS damage potential. That capped fstr tho.
Because, imo, if Chango+1 can beat Monte+1 even when there is no SC then there wouldn't be much of a reason to keep Great Sword outside of MS built.
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