"Another Mistake Like FF14 Would "Destroy" Square"
"Another Mistake Like FF14 Would "Destroy" Square"
It's business sense really, without subscriptions 14 actually cost them money beyond even development costs. It had to come from somewhere.
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Indeed, but we don't know where it comes from. Could've been pulled from all project budgets for all we know. It's a feasible assertion but it's inductive logic and its only basis is that 14 hemorrhaged money.
Valefor.Omnys said: »
FF14 hit 15k subscribers as far as I can remember reading. I found a post surmising that the game had 12k subsribers.
Still, at 15k subscribers, that's $150k a month. Servers and maintenance programers and GMs cost quite a bit just to maintain a game. Many MMOs are costing several-tens (50-100+ million to build).
XIV bringing in $1.8m a year was supposed to pay for it's own maintenance and rebuilding. Sure, rebuilding a game, and building a game don't entail all the same costs, but more than $4m (from the 2 years, rounded up).
More than $10m.
So they dropped Briaerus in East Ronfaure {S} and raised Kirin's level to keep us busy while we paid for 14.
Still, at 15k subscribers, that's $150k a month. Servers and maintenance programers and GMs cost quite a bit just to maintain a game. Many MMOs are costing several-tens (50-100+ million to build).
XIV bringing in $1.8m a year was supposed to pay for it's own maintenance and rebuilding. Sure, rebuilding a game, and building a game don't entail all the same costs, but more than $4m (from the 2 years, rounded up).
More than $10m.
So they dropped Briaerus in East Ronfaure {S} and raised Kirin's level to keep us busy while we paid for 14.
This is assuming all of SE's income comes from 11, right? Because it's not like they have released dozens of successful titles in the time 14 has been running. Also, random numbers pulled from your memory do not constitute as proving something.
Cerberus.Eugene said: »
It's business sense really, without subscriptions 14 actually cost them money beyond even development costs. It had to come from somewhere.
14 was pay to play from January this year.
I provided a link, but it's on the last page, and an edit.. Here it is again.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/33234-Worldwide-server-population-count-for-12-17-%28JST%29-across-all-servers
Hey yea! SE made several well rounded products that got great reviews, and people bought and played.
XI was separate because it's income should have gone back into improving it... like it did for years.
Along comes XIV, and XI takes a steep turn downhill.
And thanks to the above posters, I forgot about the several months XIV was free-to-play (though still required the box purchase).
Admittedly, that was a class-act. As was rebuilding the game, but still, paying the devs have to come from somewhere.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/33234-Worldwide-server-population-count-for-12-17-%28JST%29-across-all-servers
Hey yea! SE made several well rounded products that got great reviews, and people bought and played.
XI was separate because it's income should have gone back into improving it... like it did for years.
Along comes XIV, and XI takes a steep turn downhill.
And thanks to the above posters, I forgot about the several months XIV was free-to-play (though still required the box purchase).
Admittedly, that was a class-act. As was rebuilding the game, but still, paying the devs have to come from somewhere.
Valefor.Omnys said: »
I provided a link, but it's on the last page, and an edit.. Here it is again.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/33234-Worldwide-server-population-count-for-12-17-%28JST%29-across-all-servers
Hey yea! SE made several well rounded products that got great reviews, and people bought and played.
XI was separate because it's income should have gone back into improving it... like it did for years.
Along comes XIV, and XI takes a steep turn downhill.
And thanks to the above posters, I forgot about the several months XIV was free-to-play (though still required the box purchase).
Admittedly, that was a class-act. As was rebuilding the game, but still, paying the devs have to come from somewhere.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/33234-Worldwide-server-population-count-for-12-17-%28JST%29-across-all-servers
Hey yea! SE made several well rounded products that got great reviews, and people bought and played.
XI was separate because it's income should have gone back into improving it... like it did for years.
Along comes XIV, and XI takes a steep turn downhill.
And thanks to the above posters, I forgot about the several months XIV was free-to-play (though still required the box purchase).
Admittedly, that was a class-act. As was rebuilding the game, but still, paying the devs have to come from somewhere.
Ah, missed the edit. Well, fair enough, but in one of the recent letters Yoshi-P shared his 'delight' at the subscriptions peaking as 1.0 came to its conclusion.
Anyway - Not disputing anything along those lines. I just don't agree that 14 is responsible for the degrading of 11. I believe that was happening long before 14 was released and the development team that worked on 14 initially were the ones responsible for Abyssea. How much blame can you really attribute to 14?
The decline of original content began long before they all started getting 14 ready for launch (I never thought I'd use that expression.)
But didn't the decline start about the time heavy development must have started? Rapture was announced in 05, ToAU came out in 06, and WotG, in 07.
The decline certainly does seem to start with Rapture, doesn't it? As if they were shifting resources.
The decline certainly does seem to start with Rapture, doesn't it? As if they were shifting resources.
I doubt anyone but a Square-Enix employee could prove any financial claims and it seems a bit silly to ask for it. The money for twice over development of a MMO of that scale had to have come from other company assets.
No doubt that the title of the thread is true. I deeply hope it never happens, but I haven't felt the same about SE in a long long time since the days of Xenogears and older FF titles. I don't hate anything next-gen and I can even forgive a slight butchering of the Star Ocean series complete with terrible voice acting.
No doubt that the title of the thread is true. I deeply hope it never happens, but I haven't felt the same about SE in a long long time since the days of Xenogears and older FF titles. I don't hate anything next-gen and I can even forgive a slight butchering of the Star Ocean series complete with terrible voice acting.
Why would they not shift resources away from 11 toward another game? It's a decade old game that's way past its peak in both its popularity and its potential for innovation. It (somehow) still makes decent money so it only makes sense to use that income to invest in future prospects.
Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
Why would they not shift resources away from 11 toward another game? It's a decade old game that's way past its peak in both its popularity and its potential for innovation.
No better way to put it. The money XI brings in probably well surpasses the current cost of development and servers.
Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
Why would they not shift resources away from 11 toward another game? It's a decade old game that's way past its peak in both its popularity and its potential for innovation. It (somehow) still makes decent money so it only makes sense to use that income to invest in future prospects.
Of course. No company simply hoards the money a product earns just to spend it on the same product.. and otherwise-not spend it if they have no other way to improve said product.
However they took a lot from XI to make something of XIV. Twice.
XI was getting old. It was just going through its course.
Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
Why would they not shift resources away from 11 toward another game? It's a decade old game that's way past its peak in both its popularity and its potential for innovation. It (somehow) still makes decent money so it only makes sense to use that income to invest in future prospects.
I wouldn't say "way" past it's peak. Because they had a peak of subscriptions during the Abyssea periods.
FFXI will rise again, just a matter of time.
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Yeah Dray. People are just waiting on Salvage's revamp or SoA. It'll resurge a lil then. They just have to keep the populous content right after launch, which is going to be tough.
Odin.Eikechi said: »
Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
Why would they not shift resources away from 11 toward another game? It's a decade old game that's way past its peak in both its popularity and its potential for innovation. It (somehow) still makes decent money so it only makes sense to use that income to invest in future prospects.
I wouldn't say "way" past it's peak. Because they had a peak of subscriptions during the Abyssea periods.
Cerberus.Eugene said: »
Odin.Eikechi said: »
Cerberus.Pleebo said: »
Why would they not shift resources away from 11 toward another game? It's a decade old game that's way past its peak in both its popularity and its potential for innovation. It (somehow) still makes decent money so it only makes sense to use that income to invest in future prospects.
I wouldn't say "way" past it's peak. Because they had a peak of subscriptions during the Abyssea periods.
When I went to ACEN this year, the FFXI/XIV panel said they had record numbers during the Abyssea era. So I'm gonna give them the benefit of the doubt in them actually doing their research and not just pulling that fact out of thin air.
Could be, personally I saw many more people quit than rejoin, but they're in better position to judge that.
(I saw people quit endgame , and may not have seen influx of midlevel ppl).
(I saw people quit endgame , and may not have seen influx of midlevel ppl).
Seems odd we havent heard anything about the expansion. Isn't it out early next year?
FFXI will do what it always does, new expansion will release, three months later its back to standing in port jueno bored as hell. Except this time it will be on two new job everyone burned to 99. Then people will once again deactivate accounts.
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Xenshi said: »
FFXI will do what it always does, new expansion will release, three months later its back to standing in port jueno bored as hell. Except this time it will be on two new job everyone burned to 99. Then people will once again deactivate accounts.
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What are they gonna do when ARR fails?
Caitsith.Zabimaru said: »
What are they gonna do when ARR fails?
*** yeah pessimism?
SE knows everyone will abyburn the new jobs to 99 in a day. I'm pretty sure they also know players will take the best existing gear that SE lets them wear on a runefencer and parse their performance in dyna/abyssea/legion/voidwatch and immediately start bitching how bad the job is.
Expect plenty of crying all over the official forums about 'why cant my runefencer use my caladbolg/OaT GS/Bandwagonarok' etc.
The only thing that will keep returning players around for any length of time is doing all the expansion content for properly gearing out the new jobs and chasing the new loot.
Personally im more interested in them acutally delivering neo salvage soon than the new expansion. I don't think it will do much for alexandrite prices/supply for more than 1-2 months unless the 3person requirement/tag system is relaxed or a run yields more alex than just farming the existing SSR zone.
Expect plenty of crying all over the official forums about 'why cant my runefencer use my caladbolg/OaT GS/Bandwagonarok' etc.
The only thing that will keep returning players around for any length of time is doing all the expansion content for properly gearing out the new jobs and chasing the new loot.
Personally im more interested in them acutally delivering neo salvage soon than the new expansion. I don't think it will do much for alexandrite prices/supply for more than 1-2 months unless the 3person requirement/tag system is relaxed or a run yields more alex than just farming the existing SSR zone.
Cerberus.Zigounette said: »
little example :
Nexus cape > able to warp anywhere
Chocobo can be called in all outside world aera.
Npc call be called in any event
End Game dungeon and BCNM can be soloed if wanted too.
Delete flop content, pankr.. , table game, chocobo racing and free server ressource for new content.
Better Storage for all
Move storage nation to your H.P
etc etc .... can write pages.
Nexus cape > able to warp anywhere
Chocobo can be called in all outside world aera.
Npc call be called in any event
End Game dungeon and BCNM can be soloed if wanted too.
Delete flop content, pankr.. , table game, chocobo racing and free server ressource for new content.
Better Storage for all
Move storage nation to your H.P
etc etc .... can write pages.
A lot of this is stuff that probably can't be tweaked due to server space. Remember XI is over 10 yrs old now. It's on an old game engine. They can't fix a lot of those unless they rebuild the entire game, and they just aren't going to do that for an older generation MMO. Also the "flop content", you may not find appealing, but there are people that do.
Cerberus.Zigounette said: »
Not only the final product was a flot 14 like we called it.
Remember the trial on beta, server was not working, messy download link, problems on installation and so few information.
We all wish them success, but is it possible to believe it when SE not even able to fix or twist ff11 to make it better.
Remember the trial on beta, server was not working, messy download link, problems on installation and so few information.
We all wish them success, but is it possible to believe it when SE not even able to fix or twist ff11 to make it better.
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SoA a "sham"? Wow. And I thought I heard all the conspiracy theories... Blowing up 11 to force people to play 14? Wow again... Really dude? lol
If you think SE would go 'all-in' on an MMO, it'll likely be to XIV:ARR, XI is 10 1/2 years old now, which in the MMO world is considered 'ancient'. FFXIs losing more and more people as time goes on. Sure, SoA might boost the population a little bit (heck it might get me to come back for a 3rd time for a little bit), there sadly isn't much in XI that interests me anymore. ARR seems more appealing at this rate to me
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