End Of FFXIV

Nope I only played FF4 once, I rarely play single player RPG more than once. Most of the time I beat it I seal it away. If you think I don't like 14's story cuz I "didn't pay enough attention", then obviously it isn't interesting enough. If it's interesting, then player would pay more attention. Note that I'm a pretty heavy story reader/lover, and I played A LOT of games, watched A LOT of films in all genre and read a lot of novel/manga. I'm certainly not kind of player that just play the game and skip the story. Every time I play a game, I read it's story, and every word too. But if the story isn't interesting, I'm not going to remember every detail after I finish it.





They can do it with NPC for sure though. At least FFXI did it pretty well as a MMO IMO. I enjoyed WoTG quite a bit, and player certainly stick with other NPC such as Lilisette long enough to see her character develop.

Yeah Tik, I can see that in Zilart, CoP, AU and WotG. Not so much really with Abyssea and the mini expansions though. In 14 it is you, since there are many perspectives to the war. You're the rising soldier that does what the world needs of him/her. I really really loved 14's story (both the main story and the expanded on story that branched off of it)

There are so many things I want to reply to in this thread. I started to, but I think I'd rather bash my head into a wall. <.>

IMO silent protagonist actually worked in MMO such as SWTOR(not really silent in SWTOR's case though), at least the main char does develop based on decisions/attitude. If you replace protagonist with another character, all that decision making process would be gone, and won't be the same anymore no?

Afania, I'm having a REAL hard time believing you read all these stories, and see all these movies and play all these games and you only played FF4 ONCE and know every detail 15yrs after the game comes out... Either you have a super human memory, or you're BS'ing some of your story. I don't mean to defer to ad homonym but holy crap dude...

Also, the story for XI's general gameplay, and XIV's story do have a similarity really. In XI you defend the world against the encroaching beastmen tribes. In 14 it's the encroacing empire. You want to tell me you remember XI's story more, yet it is semi-similar, and you don't recall ANYTHING from 14? >_<

I remember some, just not every single detail - -. Obviously I don't remember every single little detail in FF4 too, but FF4's character has a striking image attached to them, on top of it's being mentioned over and over in many places, obviously easier to remember.

What I remembered in XI really isn't it's background, but supporting characters, and character interaction.

I don't really know what you're asking me Afania, sorry. If you mean the whole decision-tree angle, then no, that's not really development, that's writing the same story 3 different ways to give the feeling of control. Development is where a character changes because of the events happening. A silent protagonist can't easily change because they don't freely articulate themselves to begin with. You cannot observe change in a character when nothing changed but the direction of the story.

And that is what I'm saying. You said you remember everybody's job and stuff, but look what I bolded. You obviously will remember more details of a story if it keeps coming up. Why does it keep coming up? Because you're either discussing it a lot or you're playing it a lot. Hence refreshing your memory. That doesn't mean the characters were more memorable. You just simply talked about them more over the years...

But you can pretend/make it changed, for example, you can make a character that start to be a mean character, then changed to be a nice character while you play. I get what you're saying though, it's still different from pre-setted character.

That's not a character though, that's a blank-slate for you to project upon. You won't remember that blank-slate's transformation when you think of stories that changed your life. It's just a passing idea. It's a Role-play at best(I will admit an RP can turn into a true story however, but this is taking an intentional step toward developing a character).

I love the symbol that is Tikal for me, don't get me wrong, but I won't say she's a strong character or of importance to anyone but me. It's a symbol that can never be transcribed or communicated to someone else, unlike Crono, unlike Fei Fong Wong, unlike Frodo Baggins, etc. Tikal is also a symbol that has lasted a decade, which is incredibly uncommon for blank-slates of this sort.

Either way, I can agree that silent protagonist is a weak char, and I semi-agree that FF4 is a classic because everyone's been talking about it, making the character image stronger over time. But it doesn't change the fact that flashy CS=/=good story, which was what I said from the beginning to begin with. I'm not against flashy CS, I just think they should stop using same element in flashy CS that's been used in other flashy CS. Some can argue that they cried when they watched CS, but that's really just the personal thing, like how some players cried when Aerith died and some didn't feel a thing towards this character.

But flashy =/= BAD either.. You seem to think so, and aren't accepting any other opinion at all. It TOLD THE STORY of the end of the 7th Umbral Era very well. Whether you choose to accept that or not, is really up to you...

GOGO FINAL FANTASY XIV!!!!!!

Indeed, but it wasn't simply flashy. The advent of Dalamund, and the secret held about what it was and what was in it was pretty powerful. Top it off with the fact that all the NPCs you may have liked were wiped out in one fell swoop, AND it's a total loss, made it a pretty decent CS. Being pretty helped, but it was well designed in idea-craft as well. For an end to an MMO's first form, I'd say it's pretty damn solid.

Granted, it's only a step. They need to step up their game or give up while they're ahead. They started *** up XI around the time XIV was being created, bombed XIV in a big way, made some promising changes to XI only to bungle them again, and now XIV's going into its second stage. If they botch this, and the repairs they're slowly making to XI... well, ***.

Afania, let me ask you though. Because a movie (albeit a short one) evoked such feeling in players, like they regret being part of the world of Eorza, it's automatically fanboyism? Do movies/FMV not try to evoke feelings? That's the epitome of a well told story. That it evoked such feeling in the viewers of this short end sequence. It's not fanboyism, it's good entertainment.

Edit: Mind you this is from folks who didn't give the game a solid try, meaning they didn't like the product. How is that fanboyism then as well? They simply were not fans of the product.

The cities are somewhat different, but it's the same basic storyline idea of the original FFXI game that you have 3 main cities in which the people involve themselves with. Alongside having the SAME DAMN races from XI (with some tweaks) really does make XIV seem lazy.

I've been saying this since b4 XIV came out that I didn't like the idea of rehashing the same basic concepts of Vana'diel into XIV. FF reuses elements all the time throughout the series, but that doesn't mean you have to damn near be a carbon copy. Last time we seen 2 FFs that similar was FFIII pretty much being a broader FFI game.

If someone enters defensive mode and tell others to shut up/gtfo without logical discussion, that's not fanboyism? Every single MMORPG has haters and anti-haters, and FFXIV has more anti-haters than many other MMORPG I've seen. I've seen other MMOs with better performance got bashed even harder, with all sorts of reasons with no logic, and nobody ever defend for it. For FFXIV? If anyone critized anything in 14, you see plenty of fanboy jumped up.

I never said movie/FMV shouldn't evoke feeling, that is what it's main purpose. But plenty of movie/FMV out there uses pretty cheap/over used element to evoke emotion. However, I'd say story element that can associate to my life experience is more powerful than killing off NPC and destroy cities in a FMV. You can disagree though, this is just personal thing, despite you may think it's good entertainment.

I mean, I see many MANY ppl die/city destroyed/ppl fighting sequence with dragons and fireworks in my life, in all media, it really isn't anything new/zomg amazing about to be entertained,at least for me. And I'm simply asking something more than that, to entertain me(since you're entertained, why can't I ask for it?), that's all.

I always felt the same way, but whenever anyone mention it, fanboyism arise and they gonna say "No! FFXIV is still different from FFXI!" So I stopped arguing about it.

Umm then clearly you're playing the wrong genre of games Afa... This is final FANTASY. OF course it's going to be set in this kind of backdrop. If dragons don't entertain you, wtf are you doing playing XI or XIV? Or ANY FF game?

Is this thread worth back reading or is it the same old BS that usually seems to pile up when someone mentions XIV? :/

I seriously hate this argument. I really do. The "some tweaks" are MAJOR compared to XI. Roegedyn vs. Galka. Roe are not slaves to human. Roe do ANY AND ALL jobs, not just physical ones. Roe are NOT ASEXUAL. Mi'quote vs Mithra is pretty much the same differences. One, male Mi'quote are going to be very prominent in 2.0. Mi'quote aren't all stereotypical kitty cats like mithra are. They aren't a predominantly asexual race either. They aren't a nomad tribe. Lalafel vs Taru. This one mind you, is a lil similar, because I haven't seen too much lore on lala. But lack of evidence is not evidence to the contrary, so see that how you will. Elezen Vs Elvaan. Elezen aren't noble whatsoever. They aren't some pompous race that looks down on the others. They aren't nearly as assertive/aggressitve as elvaan. Hyur vs hume, is pretty generic. Humans are pretty bland in both.

The context of the thread was not an argument over the merits/demerits of FF14, but was really just a discussion about the newly released CG video accompanying the end of the current version. You came in, dumped a huge turd of purely negative criticism, and now you act oblivious to the fact that people took it as a troll. You don't like the game. I think we get it now. I'm not one to criticize derails since I do it all the time but I'm not gonna play the victim when someone calls me on it.

Read up until Afania's first post and you're good.

Also I have to ask this point, from page 3 I never addressed. WTF game were you playing, when in 14 atm 99% OF ALL QUESTS give exp? You said you remember the moogle fight, ya? You realize that fight is actually a high exp yield quest yes? Getting to 50 was probably the easiest thing to do in 14. I solo'd 45-50 on brd in 2 nights doing solo leves. Because I simply didn't want to join a party, and I was farming seals. I got my first 50 within 40 days of playing. How is this a "pain". That seems like a very relative term, and honestly it's easy as hell to exp in 14. It's actually a joke. You can honestly exp from 41-50 in a single party and it only take about 3 hours- 3 1/2 hours.

Then my point still stands, flashy CS doesn't make the story/game good, so it seems that it's just 1 sided decision based on CS, not a logical decision based on hearing different ppl's POV, unless flashy CS is all that person wants for entire game.

As previously stated. If everyone tell you FFXIV has great gameplay, by telling pros and cons of new job system, then someone decided to play FFXIV, fully knowing the pros and cons of job system, then it's a logical decision.

If someone is interested in gameplay/event, knowing that they will do same BC 100 times for dark matters, then it's a logical decision.

If someone interested in FFXIV purely because he just love flashy CS, and FFXIV offers it(which I do admit that FFXIV has very good looking cut scene), then it's still a logical decision.

But if someone interested in FFXIV because he thought that FFXIV has a deep character development, meaningful dialogue, intriguing background, and sophisticated presentation, then made decision to play it because of 1 CS, then it's not a logical decision. Because CS =/= good story.

Of course, if someone wanted to play the game after watching the CS, just because he loves CS, I'm not going to put a gun on that person's head and tell him don't. If you love CS just go play it for CS. But a bit of warning before hand is that XIV's story, IMO, isn't as good as CS looks.

And obviously when I said it, fanboyism raised because no negative opinion allowed. So I have to admire the beautiful CS, worship it like everyone else no?




Other FF game/other RPG entertain in different story aspect that's more than dragon. >.> I don't HATE dragon/explosion, I'm not asking them to go away, I'm simply asking for MORE than dragon/explosion.

Dude. I'm not talking about the deeper story aspects of the races, I'm basically just talking about the physical and conceptual nature of the races. Whether we like are not, they are basically the same in terms of looks.

Roes are Galka with no tails and they weren't asexual until players complained about the game so much that the devs basically caved in and gave people females roes.

Mi'qote are just likes Mithra until SE caved in and gave us Male Mi'qote. There was only ONE male Mithra in XI during WotG. They also look more human on XIV.

Lalafell are the tiny race like Taru but they made them taller and thinner. Hyurans and Elezens are basically exactly the same.

It would have been nice for SE to at least add 2 or 3 new races and not just upgrade the same 5 we already had in XI. Tho I do give them props on splitting them up in tribes tho in XIV. That helps.

Actually, now that I think about it. Mimicing XI is what got XIV in trouble in the first place overall. Not just with races, but in the original amount of content.

SE thought they could get away with just doing a bare bones game and just slowly release more stuff as they went on along the years just like with XI and it didn't work.

The races are really a microcosm of what was wrong with the dev philosophy on the game in the first damn place.

EDIT:

But back on topic, I'm glad SE was kicked in the *** by the critism and seem to really be making FFXIV into an epic memorable FF game. This trailer etc show that. So I thin moving forward SE won't make the same mistakes.

Do you honestly think you can quest all the way from 1~50 by JUST questing? Get real. You still have to grind somewhere. Lving to 50 in 40 days of playing is irrelevant. Do you spend your 40 days getting PL/solo leve(which has no story, just kill X and Y and repeat, like FoV)/EXP pt mostly? I'm not asking for faster EXP, I'm asking for more fun while EXPing.

I'm asking about something that you just do story, and progress naturally to 50. If I pull up some of single player FF game, I start with lowest lv, go to next dungeon, fight boss, got EXP. Then I go to next zone/dungeon, fight boss, got EXP. All while progressing main story. By the time I reached final boss, my lv is already highest. So why can't FF MMO do the same? I start with lv 1 char, start with 1st story quest. Gather a group or solo 1st story quest, get EXP while doing it, then enter next story quest, got EXP while doing it too.

I also think there should be lower lv raid, every 3~5 lv get a new raid, every dungeon you complete you gain huge amount of EXP while learning how to play your job. And the amount of EXP you got is based by amount of ppl, so a full pt gets more EXP per person. That's good incentive for more ppl to help/team up on quests.

NOT getting someone to PL me, or do leve(which has no cutscene/story at all) over and over to get to lv 50.


And yes you can get EXP by doing quests, but sadly it doesn't make you go to 50 because the EXP offered in quests is so low, and they seemed to scale down if I'm trying to complete them on lower jobs too.

Honestly, you can defend for 14 all you want, but I think there are several things it can do to make it a lot better than it is.

Concept is story. Also I pointed out where Elezen and Elvaan are different, and no the devs didn't "cave" to give us female Roeg. Myrlwebb (think i butchered that spelling) was in the game for a VERY long time. She's the Admiral of the Maelstrom...