DA,TA And QA Let's Talk

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DA,TA and QA let's talk
 Valefor.Prothescar
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2012-05-12 04:46:03
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Actually now that I look at it, in terms of Mala, I don't really see it being worth it. You receive under .1 fTP from it on average, making it less effective than an elemental gorget.

.22946965 from windbuffest and mala

.21932555 from windbuffet only


So basically you're losing a bit of fTP in favor of a slightly higher chance at big numbers.
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By Odin.Eikechi 2012-05-12 04:46:22
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I use the windbuffet now and I can spike at least decently. My WS set is pretty good on sam and i hit a 4k shoha on kaggen today without food and just 1 minuet + chaos lol
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By Ramuh.Austar 2012-05-12 04:50:25
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I've always gotten mala as being better than gorget unless acc is awful.
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2012-05-12 04:53:25
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I'm trying to figure out how. On paper it technically isn't true unless I'm overlooking something obvious, which is possible.
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By Ramuh.Austar 2012-05-12 04:55:02
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Well i'll show my work real fast then.
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By Ramuh.Austar 2012-05-12 05:15:00
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189 STR with red curries and taru/war, 2.25 cRatio. 17% DA, 2% TA, 1/3% QA, 1.66875/1.56875 fTP first hit.

(2.66875*(132+21+160))*2.25 = 1878
(2.56875*(132+21+160))*2.25 = 1809

(3.66875*313)*2.25 = 2583
(3.56875*313)*2.25 = 2513

(4.66875*313)*2.25 = 3287
(4.56875*313)*2.25 = 3217

(5.66875*313)*2.25 = 3991
(5.56875*313)*2.25 = 3921

(6.66875*313)*2.25 = 4695
(6.56875*313)*2.25 = 4626

(7.66875*313)*2.25 = 5400
(7.56875*313)*2.25 = 5330

(8.66875*313)*2.25 = 6104
(8.56875*313)*2.25 = 6034
 Valefor.Prothescar
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2012-05-12 05:19:46
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Where are you getting 1.66875?

109 from QA

97 * .02 = 1.94 * 2 = 3.88

112.88

95 * .17 = 16.15

129.03

.12903 before hitrate and before multiplying by two since it's a two hit WS. What am I missing?


103 from QA

99 * .02 = 1.98 * 2 = 3.96

106.96

97 * .17 = 16.49

123.45

.12345 before hitrate and before multiplying by two since it's a two hit WS. .00558 fTP increase between the two, much less than .1.






I'm going to bed, the decimal is after the 1. Still, I'm not seeing how you're getting QA to be so valuable in terms of average fTP increase. I'm getting 1.69778 for Mala+Windbuffet, 1.7922 for Windbuffet+Gorget.
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By Ramuh.Austar 2012-05-12 05:34:33
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(6104*.0001)+(5400*.0002)+(4695*.0016)+(3991*.0081)+(5400*.0002)+(4695*.0004)+(3991*.0033)+(3287*.0159)+(4695*.0016)+(3991*.0033)+(3287*.0272)+(2583*.1328)+(3991*.0081)+(3287*.0159)+(2583*.1328)+(1878*.6485)
= 2208 2208*1.1 = 2428 gorget

(6034*.0009)+(5330*.0006)+(4626*.0048)+(3921*.0237)+(5330*.0006)+(4626*.0006)+(3921*.0031)+(3217*.0153)+(4626*.0048)+(3921*.0031)+(3217*.0261)+(2513*.1275)+(3921*.0237)+(3217*.0153)+(2513*.1275)+(1809*.6225)
= 2218 2218*1.1 = 2439 mala
 Valefor.Prothescar
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2012-05-12 05:41:25
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1.375 + .19375 + .12345 + .1 = 1.7922

1.375 + .19375 + .12903 = 1.69778



For both hits

2.375 + .19375 + .2469 + .1 = 2.91565

2.375 + .19375 + .25806 = 2.82681



Not sure what your procedure here is?
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By Ramuh.Austar 2012-05-12 05:42:53
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I don't know how you have gorget an entire gorget's worth of average http://fTP.
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2012-05-12 05:44:08
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What else would I be valuing it as? It adds .1 to the first hit. It's a static number that does not change at the base level.
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By Ramuh.Austar 2012-05-12 05:46:39
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Valefor.Prothescar said: »
What else would I be valuing it as? It adds .1 to the first hit.
Well your method finds the average ftp between the two, yes? So it shouldn't be that far ahead if that was the case. Would be closer to 1.01 not .94 something
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2012-05-12 05:48:47
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My method is simply the average fTP of both.

1.375 = base fTP
.19375 = Moonshade earring
.12345 = 1%QA/2%TA/17%DA
.1 = Gorget

.12903 = 3%QA/2%TA/17%DA
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By Ramuh.Austar 2012-05-12 05:50:32
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are you forgetting QA can proc on the second hit? I think you are.
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2012-05-12 05:51:58
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That isn't involving the second hit, only the first. Second hit would be...

2.375 = base fTP
.19375 = Moonshade earring
.2469 = 1%QA/2%TA/17%DAx2
.1 = Gorget

.25806 = 3%QA/2%TA/17%DAx2

again this is ignoring hitrate, a proper average fTP from multiattacks would include a deduction due to hitrate not being 100%.

.22282725 and .23289915 respectively at capped hitrate; 2.89157725, 2.82681


I'm not entirely sure how you calculate your average fTP from multiattacks, and I'm too tired to try to decode it right now, but mine goes like this.


Assuming 100 attack rounds.

15% TA
15% DA

QA > TA > DA

100 * .15 = 15

TA adds 2 attacks per round, so you get 130 attacks per attack round.

DA procs after TA, and can no proc if TA procs, meaning that 15 attack rounds per every 100, DA will not be able to proc.

85 * .15 = 12.75

12.75 + 130 = 142.75 attacks per round.




To add to weaponskills:


1.4275 attacks per round, or an average 42.75% chance of getting a multiattack worth 1 fTP (unless fTP transfers to all hits), which will average to +0.4275 http://fTP.

For WS with two or more hits, since DA/TA can occur twice, you double this value, and thus it adds 0.855 fTP on average.

To factor in hitrate, multiply the fTP and/or added fTP by your hit rate. Ex.: .4275 * .95
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By Ramuh.Austar 2012-05-12 06:00:39
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The way I do it, I take the percent chance it'll happen, then multiply by the damage of the http://fTP. So, (6104*.0001) would be .1% chance at getting x2 QA, then I just go down the list of possibilities multiplying by the percent chance it'll happen.
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2012-05-12 06:01:21
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I'm not sure how accurate that is in the long run to be honest. @@
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By Ramuh.Austar 2012-05-12 06:01:39
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I've already said I don't calculate average http://fTP.
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By Ramuh.Austar 2012-05-12 06:02:03
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Valefor.Prothescar said: »
I'm not sure how accurate that is in the long run to be honest. @@
I don't see how it's not.
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2012-05-12 06:02:37
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In a case like this it isn't worth calculating anything outside of average. I'm comparing the two average fTPs of the two possible neck+waist combinations; average is the only number that matters. One may be better than the other at max, however if the other is better on average, the other is better a much higher % of the time, as in, on average, it is superior.

I base most of my comparisons on averages. I don't care about epeen numbers, I care about what will be more effective over a greater expanse of time.
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By Ramuh.Austar 2012-05-12 06:04:45
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So if 1 QA is .03 ftp, 2 would be .06, now you double that for multi hit and you have .12 which is more than .1
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By Ramuh.Austar 2012-05-12 06:07:54
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.290402 x 2 = .580804
.234534 x 2 = .469068. Add .1 and you get .569068
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2012-05-12 06:08:04
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We're on divergent paths here. I'm not entirely sure where 1QA = .03 fTP is coming from.

(.469068 + .1 = .569068)
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By Ramuh.Austar 2012-05-12 06:09:58
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3 QA, 2 TA, 17 DA average hits per round is 1.290402
1 QA, 2 TA, 17 DA average hits per round is 1.234534

.290402 x 2 .580804
.234534 x 2 .469068 + .1 = .569068
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By Ramuh.Austar 2012-05-12 06:10:10
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Exactly, gorget is still behind.
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By Ramuh.Austar 2012-05-12 06:10:55
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Valefor.Prothescar said: »

I base most of my comparisons on averages. I don't care about epeen numbers, I care about what will be more effective over a greater expanse of time.
So do i, hence the multiplying by the percent chance the damage will occur.
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2012-05-12 06:11:19
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I'm not seeing why our numbers are so different, however I'm not convinced as to the inaccuracy of my method here. I'm honestly not sure where the straight value of .03fTP for 1 QA is coming from. I'll have to look at it again later. Going to bed for real this time.
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By Ramuh.Austar 2012-05-12 06:12:26
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Valefor.Prothescar said: »
You're not using average fTPs though, that's why our results are different.
Our results are the same if you do it right.

3 QA, 2 TA, 17 DA average hits per round is 1.290402
1 QA, 2 TA, 17 DA average hits per round is 1.234534

.290402 x 2 .580804
.234534 x 2 .469068 + .1 = .569068

.580804 > .569068 Add all you want, adding same numbers to the larger number is still going to make it larger.
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2012-05-12 06:13:55
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Are you sure you're doing this properly? You have too many decimals. What base of attack rounds are you using?

With 100 attacks, it's 1.2903 attacks on average for 3QA/2TA/17DA
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By Ramuh.Austar 2012-05-12 06:15:09
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I didn't truncate anything. I'm doing it the exact way you demonstrated.
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