[dev1071] Job Adjustments: Paladin

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[dev1071] Job Adjustments: Paladin
 Fenrir.Minjo
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By Fenrir.Minjo 2012-01-24 17:55:24
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Odin.Almont said: »
Fenrir.Minjo said: »
I feel like most of the people on this page are saying absolutely nothing in the most words possible.

Fenrir.Minjo said: »
Spare me the one-liners. If you disagree, explain why.

Make up your mind, man! (honestly, just doing the multi-quoting for levity. No offense intended.)

I think I understand now what you're saying about the previous suggestion not making any difference: Since everyone ends up hitting and maintaining the enmity cap fairly quickly, it doesn't make any difference overall how quickly the tank hits the cap.

While the conclusion you've drawn is also correct, it wasn't the point I was initially making. I can skyrocket to the enmity cap within a minute with a sword. Curing generates less enmity, and isn't nearly as productive.
 Odin.Almont
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By Odin.Almont 2012-01-24 18:03:34
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Fenrir.Minjo said: »
I can skyrocket to the enmity cap within a minute with a sword. Curing generates less enmity, and isn't nearly as productive.

How? Show your work.
 Sylph.Kimble
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By Sylph.Kimble 2012-01-24 18:30:38
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Looking at your gear choices, I don't think explaining anything to you would make much of a difference.
 Odin.Almont
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By Odin.Almont 2012-01-24 18:42:56
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Ohhh, nice! A poke at my gear choices when I'm asking a valid question. Cool story, bro. Why can't you use your powers for good and grace us with an answer?
 Ifrit.Darkanaseur
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By Ifrit.Darkanaseur 2012-01-24 18:46:17
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Odin.Almont said: »
Fenrir.Minjo said: »
I can skyrocket to the enmity cap within a minute with a sword. Curing generates less enmity, and isn't nearly as productive.

How? Show your work.

Christ, use Google or some kind of Wiki.

Everything you need to know about Enmity
 Sylph.Kimble
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By Sylph.Kimble 2012-01-24 18:46:25
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Because others have already explained it to you be you choose to not believe it?

Really, at this point in the game, no one should not understand that DDing is going to get you to hate faster then anything else you can do.
 Odin.Almont
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By Odin.Almont 2012-01-24 18:54:47
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Ifrit.Darkanaseur said: »
Christ, use Google or some kind of Wiki.

Again, thanks for coming in and making the assumption that I'm some kind of idiot. I've read Kanican's site. I'm not asking for anything special here- just some numeric information and specific examples to back up the claim Minjo is making. I never disputed that dealing damage will get you to enmity cap. He specifically said "I can skyrocket to the enmity cap within a minute with a sword." I simply want to understand how. If you don't want to contribute information, feel free to make as many snide comments as you want. They're meaningless.

Sylph.Kimble said:
Because others have already explained it to you be you choose to not believe it?

No one's explained anything; they have posted statements about what 'can' be done without providing any mathematical backup, period.
 Valefor.Prothescar
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2012-01-24 19:05:35
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You need mathematical backup?

For one, unless you know the exact level of the target, you cannot calculate the enmity gained from damage. Second, it should be somewhat common sense.

Your sword will be generating enmity for you every time you swing it, and a weaponskill will more than likely always be generating more enmity than a Cure.

The time in which you're casting cures (2~2.5 seconds each) and the time in between cures (4~8 seconds) is all time that you are not gaining enmity from cures. You also have to take into account PLD's terrible cure potency, and the amount of HP you would actually be healing yourself for after several factors come into play (HP missing, mages curing you before your cure goes off, etc.).

Your sword is limited only if you're somehow inhibited from striking the enemy at all, or if you're amnesia'd for an extended period of time.
 Fenrir.Minjo
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By Fenrir.Minjo 2012-01-24 19:09:00
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A low-end 300 TP CDC is going to get me over half way to the VE cap before Sentinel is considered. Two of these atypically low Sentinel-boosted CDC are going to cap my CE, before self-Light damage is considered. That's going to take place within 15 seconds of the fighting starting.

If you have any other extremely obvious questions, I'll have to ask you to use a calculator yourself. Every resource available to me is available to you.
 Odin.Almont
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By Odin.Almont 2012-01-24 19:30:33
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Okay, fair enough. Thank you both.
 Bismarck.Zander
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By Bismarck.Zander 2012-01-24 19:37:16
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I just wanted to step in and say that I LOVE Paladin, I'm glad they made this update to Shield Bash :D

I love PLD even more when I'm playing solo in Campaign, love being able to solo the Boss and it's underlings all at the same time, that part of PLD will never get old for me even if I can only do it in Campaign.
 Ifrit.Darkanaseur
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By Ifrit.Darkanaseur 2012-01-24 19:38:52
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Odin.Almont said: »
Again, thanks for coming in and making the assumption that I'm some kind of idiot. I've read Kanican's site. I'm not asking for anything special here- just some numeric information and specific examples to back up the claim Minjo is making. I never disputed that dealing damage will get you to enmity cap. He specifically said "I can skyrocket to the enmity cap within a minute with a sword." I simply want to understand how. If you don't want to contribute information, feel free to make as many snide comments as you want. They're meaningless.

It's simple multiplication and division, how you claim not to be an idiot whilst being unable to do that is funny. That or you're just lazy, so you get snide comments.

A rough simulation, but with a maximum of around 10 Cures in a minute due to cast/recast/lock time, you won't beat that generation.
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 Odin.Almont
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By Odin.Almont 2012-01-24 19:52:01
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Ifrit.Darkanaseur said: »
It's simple multiplication and division, how you claim not to be an idiot whilst being unable to do that is funny. That or you're just lazy, so you get snide comments.

The third option is that I don't have as firm a grasp of the game system's math as you do. The type of information you posted in the spoiler was all I was asking for and helps me understand better. Outside of that, you'll find I don't give a shiny shite what your thoughts on my level of intelligence are.


Ifrit.Darkanaseur said: »
A rough simulation, but with a maximum of around 10 Cures in a minute due to cast/recast/lock time, you won't beat that generation.

Again, thank you.
 Caitsith.Eriina
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By Caitsith.Eriina 2012-01-24 20:37:15
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@Almont

From an objective stand point, when you asked your initial "question" it looked a lot more like you were calling him out than asking for advice, which is probably why you got so many snide remarks. Your comment about a "third option" confirms you entered the inquiry not from a stand point offering communal help, but rather of mistrust and exposing a lie.

I can understand mistrusting unsupported claims. A lot of people say a lot of crap on forum that is just made up. Or they say things based on results from a calculator regarding gear they've never owned let a lone actually tried using. It's frustrating to wade through all the BS to find some actual information.

But yeah, anyway. If you really really actually want someone to provide you with info best not to insult them at the same time, even if you don't realize you're doing.
 Odin.Almont
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By Odin.Almont 2012-01-24 20:57:24
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I'm not sure how asking for a more in-depth explanation is insulting, and that's all my request was, not calling anyone out. My comment about not having a firm understanding of the mathy side of game mechanics also doesn't carry any connotation about trying to prove someone wrong, so I'm sorry if you --or anyone-- understood it as that kind of a statement.

The main problem I find on forums is, if you ask a straightforward question 'nicely,' you often get the "if you don't understand such an obvious question, then there's no point in trying to explain." This does nothing to aid in understanding.

Alternately, if you're more forceful in the way you phrase things it may give some the impression you're describing, of "calling someone out." I don't believe asking for details should be viewed as a personal challenge. I'll keep in mind what you're saying though.
 Bahamut.Krizz
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By Bahamut.Krizz 2012-01-24 20:58:51
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Chill. Not saying it again.
 Lakshmi.Ashido
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By Lakshmi.Ashido 2012-01-24 21:31:50
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Sweet lower bash timer means i can almost do 400 DMG with shield bash more often , awsome.
 Siren.Kalilla
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By Siren.Kalilla 2012-02-03 06:25:34
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Update on topic today:

02-03-2012 05:09 AM
[source1][source2]
Gildrein
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[dev1071] Job Adjustments: Paladin

  • Shield Bash

    • Shield Bash recast time will be reduced from five minutes to three.
    • To preserve balance in light of this change, the Shield Bash Recast merit point enhancement will be adjusted to reduce recast time by six seconds per level, instead of the previous ten.

  • Holy Circle

    • Recast time reduced from ten minutes to five.
      Duration increased from one minute to three.
    • Reduction granted by Holy Circle Recast merit enhancement adjusted from twenty seconds per point to ten.

  • Sepulcher

    • Recast time reduced from ten minutes to five.



[dev1085] Job Adjustments: Paladin Part II

  • Fealty

    • Recast time will be reduced from twenty minutes to ten.
    • Additional merit points will no longer reduce recast time, but instead extend duration by an additional five seconds per point.

  • Chivalry

    • Recast time will be reduced from twenty minutes to ten.
    • Additional merit points will no longer reduce recast time, but instead increase MP recovery by an additional 5% per point.

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 Asura.Ludoggy
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By Asura.Ludoggy 2012-02-03 06:30:05
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CTRL+F balance every time.
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