[dev1071] Job Adjustments: Paladin

I wasn't aware of this. What changed as we leveled to cause a difference in CE generation specifically where cures are involved?

yes but at least give Pld less of a hard time to hit and hold close to CE cap - hence why i mentioned a job trait that either gives a big hate boost on cures or affects CE decay some how. Or could even investigate a JA that steals/sheds players hate, as an AOE even? *shrug

Or remove temps from VW!

ofc on top DDs could/should "wave" out dmg a little more sensible - and ride those hate caps "smarter" over long fights - instead of just trying to impress people on the internet.

Or Pld can just let the "Hero's" die - hate cleared - and the ally hates the pld once more! xd

Dude, I am. PLD75 and I'm rubbing this Shield Bash over my naked body.

It is true that enmity has been lowered as we went from 75-99, quite a bit actually. Great for WHM but not so great for PLD.

Basically the modifier lowers every level, or every other level, depending on where the level lands on the 5 pattern sequence, then multiplies that modifier with how much you've cured and that is how much enmity you gained.

So since the modifiers are smaller at 99 than they were at 75 if you cure for the same amount at 99 compared to 75 then you're enmity gain per cure has lowered.

Is this an issue? I'm not sure, I haven't read much up on enmity honestly since I don't really have problems with mine, but I think you aren't having that much more of an issue gaining enmity. You should be seeing that you have to cure more to reach cap, by quite a few cures actually, if you just stood there and did nothing but cast cure on yourself.

So good for mages, not good for you but not bad for you either.

I thought hate didn't clear when you died, just got deactivated until you do an action on a party member/enemy.

(sorry, it still decays too when you're dead as well I think just like it would when you were alive and fighting).

Salacious! poidh?

honest i cant 100 % remember ;; lol - if its a total floor of ce/ve or as you said just the VE floors over time and the CE stays still

Im sure someone knows ! or just dont raise the Heros !?

Edit : i feel the need to put the word BALANCE here and possible in every post i make in this thread

Dang, I've never heard of this and can't say I'm thrilled about it, either. It may not be a huge difference, but it's still a step in the wrong direction. This has always been a game of improvement by degrees. No way PLD should be on the same VE/CE generation tables as WHM, even though we're talking about enmity generated through cures.

I agree, should have a JA or possibly even a JT that flips the cures calculations upsidedown for pld.

Wow, that's .... actually an incredibly simple change that would still be very helpful for PLD. Should see if Camate will hire you, Kalilla!

Shield Bash should be lowered to 1 minute with a little less with Merit. At least some Enmity generation and Stun effective.

Should be 1:30 meritable down to 1:00 or something like that. It's nice to lower it but it could have really gone lower.

Nooooooo~! The Balance!
Having an even lower recast might result in...

That kind of adjustment wouldn't change a thing. PLD builds enmity with damage, not healing.

Uh. If you say so.

Spare me the one-liners. If you disagree, explain why.

Cures were hardly even a legitimate way to build hate at 75 when PLD's best damage dealing WS was capped at 750 damage and their DoT was pisspoor.

At level 99, (cure enmity is influenced by target level), with enhanced damage dealing ability and aftermath increasing DoT rather significantly as compared to a Joyeuse, it's kind of a no-brainer to see why Minjo is correct here.

Even with the changes to CE modifiers explained above, I don't believe PLD generates enmity quicker through damage dealt than through HP cured over a given time-period. The one-liner was meant as a visual cue towards this opinion. I guess I could say something about what I'm expecting next but there's not much point. Can you point me to somewhere which shows some concrete examples of enmity generation comparisons?

Your exact statement was that PLD builds enmity through damage and not cures. So I will show you how, logically, this can be adjusted.

x = Time it takes for a full cure cycle (include casting time and recasting time)
y = The enmity from DPS one is able to fit into x time-frame
z = The amount of hate generated by a cure

When z > y, you have changed the logical method a PLD should pull hate.

---

Defusing HP for full cure is not a problem (wear -hp gear > profit)
MP Regen shouldn't be too much of a headache now, either (espcially considering you're going to cap out CE with this method)

This, however, does not change playstyle after capped. Wear haste + acc, do damage. Maybe on high hate reset mobs, you'd get more use out of spamcasting, but it could change the playstyle on building enmity. Just not anything past that. For all intents and purposes, they need to change the way enmity is built in order for PLD to become tank again.

Capping enmity is not and has not been an issue for PLD in the slightest. Making cures afford more enmity will only slow the hate-holding process if you rely on them, as I guarantee most any DD you're tanking against will be swinging faster than you can spam your cures to recap CE and get a burst of VE.

No argument whatsoever on the fact that DD swinging away will build their CE faster overall than either of the two jobs formerly looked to for tanking. I've also no argument that capping enmity was never an issue for anyone even halfway skilled at playing PLD, but the fact is that cap is being reached too quickly by everyone, regardless of what their role is supposed to be.

I've never subscribed to the outlook that DD should be off the chain from the get-go, and I personally don't enjoy the rise in zerg tactics that's been going on in the game since what? Like '04 - '05? None of that matters though, because it's the atmosphere of the game now, so whatever.

I feel like most of the people on this page are saying absolutely nothing in the most words possible.

We know the system is dumb, but like I said, the previous suggestion would not fix anything.

Enmity aside, PLD is a survivalist. DD's drop like flies in VW (after temps, etc) and PLD can hold a mob until the alliance recovers. Other DD can't do the same or as efficiently as PLD can. That's where a they shine, I think.

If they're gonna chop some of the recast timers for these JAs, I wish they'd make them look more appealing at the same time.
Any bash animation looks boring and stupid.

Add sparkles and "Kweh" sound to bash? D=

Birds around the enemy's head when you hit it with bash.

Make up your mind, man! (honestly, just doing the multi-quoting for levity. No offense intended.)

I think I understand now what you're saying about the previous suggestion not making any difference: Since everyone ends up hitting and maintaining the enmity cap fairly quickly, it doesn't make any difference overall how quickly the tank hits the cap.

Precisely. The issue lies in the lack of ability for a PLD to maintain drawing the enemy's attention for extended periods of time due to a ***enmity cap.