Apocalypse95 VS Ragnarok 95 |
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Apocalypse95 VS Ragnarok 95
Quetzalcoatl.Generic said: » Cerberus.Taint said: » For DRK: Apoc without a doubt. I have yet to be out DDed by any Rag DRK. Esp in VW Apoc's Xhit alone will out due Rag. The only time Rag is out performaing a Apoc is when a WAR uses it long with their 2hr and spam Resolution, in which ca. WS > wing > WS > swing > WS D: Regain/Save TP go :O Quetzalcoatl.Mitosis said: » Quetzalcoatl.Generic said: » Cerberus.Taint said: » For DRK: Apoc without a doubt. I have yet to be out DDed by any Rag DRK. Esp in VW Apoc's Xhit alone will out due Rag. The only time Rag is out performaing a Apoc is when a WAR uses it long with their 2hr and spam Resolution, in which ca. WS > wing > WS > swing > WS D: Regain/Save TP go :O oh man was I lost -.-; Quetzalcoatl.Generic said: » Cerberus.Taint said: » For DRK: Apoc without a doubt. I have yet to be out DDed by any Rag DRK. Esp in VW Apoc's Xhit alone will out due Rag. The only time Rag is out performaing a Apoc is when a WAR uses it long with their 2hr and spam Resolution, in which ca. Thats exactly why Rag falls behind, it can't Swing WS swing WS because of its delay.
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Cerberus.Taint said: » Quetzalcoatl.Generic said: » Cerberus.Taint said: » For DRK: Apoc without a doubt. I have yet to be out DDed by any Rag DRK. Esp in VW Apoc's Xhit alone will out due Rag. The only time Rag is out performaing a Apoc is when a WAR uses it long with their 2hr and spam Resolution, in which ca. Thats exactly why Rag falls behind, it can't Swing WS swing WS because of its delay. k back to 1 swing after my WS
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Quetzalcoatl.Generic said: » Cerberus.Taint said: » Quetzalcoatl.Generic said: » Cerberus.Taint said: » For DRK: Apoc without a doubt. I have yet to be out DDed by any Rag DRK. Esp in VW Apoc's Xhit alone will out due Rag. The only time Rag is out performaing a Apoc is when a WAR uses it long with their 2hr and spam Resolution, in which ca. Atma20,MisersPerfect25,WS16? is 61tp,1tic of perfect regain is 71...any slower then that are the WARs,SAMs and Apocs are eating your lunch. 100s of parses my friend, not assumed circumstances. Cerberus.Taint said: » Quetzalcoatl.Generic said: » Cerberus.Taint said: » Quetzalcoatl.Generic said: » Cerberus.Taint said: » For DRK: Apoc without a doubt. I have yet to be out DDed by any Rag DRK. Esp in VW Apoc's Xhit alone will out due Rag. The only time Rag is out performaing a Apoc is when a WAR uses it long with their 2hr and spam Resolution, in which ca. Atma20,MisersPerfect25,WS16? is 61tp,1tic of perfect regain is 71...any slower then that are the WARs,SAMs and Apocs are eating your lunch. 100s of parses my friend, not assumed circumstances. That's not very nice I stopped posting parses after the THF forum :/ Start here for Parses I thought I was pretty good for eyeballing numbers tho D:< /ragequit etc Sooo boring bro. Entertain me a little. Post dem parses yo :O
Quetzalcoatl.Generic said: » Cerberus.Taint said: » Quetzalcoatl.Generic said: » Cerberus.Taint said: » Quetzalcoatl.Generic said: » Cerberus.Taint said: » For DRK: Apoc without a doubt. I have yet to be out DDed by any Rag DRK. Esp in VW Apoc's Xhit alone will out due Rag. The only time Rag is out performaing a Apoc is when a WAR uses it long with their 2hr and spam Resolution, in which ca. Well ofcourse I would pick parses that 100% prove my point...which is why parses are useless. Thats why I posted some nice napkin math for you. If Rag could 6hit in solid gear I'd be all for it, I'd make one tomorrow. The 7hit hurts it for current engame (VW) and in the other parts of the game the utiliy of Apoc is much more valuable. I play daily with people who have Apoc and Rag .... Cerberus.Taint said: 100s of parses my friend, not assumed circumstances. Cerberus.Taint said: parses are useless. Huh? Rag for DD, Apoc for utility. Apoc is better overall, but Rag is absolutely nuts for damage. I got both 95.
Quetzalcoatl.Mitosis said: » Cerberus.Taint said: 100s of parses my friend, not assumed circumstances. Cerberus.Taint said: parses are useless. Huh? Half the people in this discussion don't even have both lawl
Quetzalcoatl.Mitosis said: » Cerberus.Taint said: 100s of parses my friend, not assumed circumstances. Cerberus.Taint said: parses are useless. An individual parse doesn't mean much. I'll dig thorough them and see if i have any 12-16 fight parses. But I parse most everything so it won't be easy to find. If you want some 1 fight parses just say so. Konvict I'd be intested in your gear if you think Rag is ahead of Apoc in VW. I hope this isn't serious.... There are places where Rag should have a clear advantage in terms of raw DD like new dynamis,salvage,lolabyssea but in those events you probably shouldn't be on DRK or you'll favor Apoc for the easy of soloing/low manning with little upkeep instead of going for raw damage. Abyessa is not a place to parse, so many different factors go into stuff. Go old school if u want a fair parse lol.
Cerberus.Taint said: » Quetzalcoatl.Mitosis said: » Cerberus.Taint said: 100s of parses my friend, not assumed circumstances. Cerberus.Taint said: parses are useless. An individual parse doesn't mean much. I'll dig thorough them and see if i have any 12-16 fight parses. But I parse most everything so it won't be easy to find. If you want some 1 fight parses just say so. Konvict I'd be intested in your gear if you think Rag is ahead of Apoc in VW. I hope this isn't serious.... There are places where Rag should have a clear advantage in terms of raw DD like new dynamis,salvage,lolabyssea but in those events you probably shouldn't be on DRK or you'll favor Apoc for the easy of soloing/low manning with little upkeep instead of going for raw damage. I have yet to see any parses from anyone using Apoc. Not that they aren't good it's just that I want to see numbers to believe how good all the Apoc users say it is. I've seen Rag/Reso first hand so ofc I'm biased. It's amazing and I would never regret making my Ragnarok. I just haven't seen an amazing Apoc DRK so show me what I've been missing Ok Generic I'll bite, you and I side by side, fighting mobs, NO healer no support. Don't need a parse. See who lasts longer. Bet you ANY gil I will with my Apoc. That right there makes Apoc > Ragnarok. And yes there are plenty of other reasons as well, but that one just jumps out at me.
It's easy to 6-hit Ragnarok on war, but for drk Apoc is gonna win hands down. 5hit > 7hit period. Ragnarok is better suited to war over drk for obvious reasons. If you play drk, get an apoc. You won't be disappointed.
How about both are situational better? Besides Ukon war > bravura war > Sam > everything else > drk
Pandemonium.Anookulchandra said: » How about both are situational better? Besides Ukon war > bravura war > Sam > everything else > drk Also the whole side by side no support / healer crap, Ill show up on dnc and we will see who wins, Oh wait that isnt relevant to the thread AT ALL. Ragnarok is the Pure DD power house in the game right now besides most mythics taking some nice damage with the OAT2-3 but I doubt that liberator is one of them, People seem to forget it was never good, and just because certain weapons got better with 2-3 or new ws's doesnt mean they all did. Apoc is for people who play Dark in a career setting, Ragnarok is for Warriors who want to come on a different job once in a while, aka drk. not sure how screens of MS Resolution on war makes a case for ragnorok vs apocalypse for dark knight....lol
basically from my experience with apoc, I just love the way it changes the dynamics of the job, survivability on a job that was always lacking and just all round utility. ragnorok has definitely become a formidable weapon especially with the addition of resolution and the option of equipping on war(probably the top relic/job DD combo atm) but from the career dark knight perspective scythe is the choice for me. Phoenix.Deboro said: » Ragnarok is the Pure DD power house in the game right now besides most mythics taking some nice damage with the OAT2-3 but I doubt that liberator is one of them, People seem to forget it was never good, and just because certain weapons got better with 2-3 or new ws's doesnt mean they all did. Liberator was always a pretty good zerg weapon, and the increase in AM3 potency and duration, plus the Insurgency boost (Is it the best scythe WS counting the boost? I'm not sure.) has made it even better. Is it the best mythic? No...but it is certainly a great weapon. Phoenix.Deboro said: » Pandemonium.Anookulchandra said: » How about both are situational better? Besides Ukon war > bravura war > Sam > everything else > drk Also the whole side by side no support / healer crap, Ill show up on dnc and we will see who wins, Oh wait that isnt relevant to the thread AT ALL. Ragnarok is the Pure DD power house in the game right now besides most mythics taking some nice damage with the OAT2-3 but I doubt that liberator is one of them, People seem to forget it was never good, and just because certain weapons got better with 2-3 or new ws's doesnt mean they all did. Apoc is for people who play Dark in a career setting, Ragnarok is for Warriors who want to come on a different job once in a while, aka drk. APOC! cuz its the name of my LS!
Ragnarok.Unctgtg said: » Ok Generic I'll bite, you and I side by side, fighting mobs, NO healer no support. Don't need a parse. See who lasts longer. Bet you ANY gil I will with my Apoc. That right there makes Apoc > Ragnarok. And yes there are plenty of other reasons as well, but that one just jumps out at me. It's called a mule :/ Cure VI says hi
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Quetzalcoatl.Generic said: » Ragnarok.Unctgtg said: » Ok Generic I'll bite, you and I side by side, fighting mobs, NO healer no support. Don't need a parse. See who lasts longer. Bet you ANY gil I will with my Apoc. That right there makes Apoc > Ragnarok. And yes there are plenty of other reasons as well, but that one just jumps out at me. It's called a mule :/ Cure VI says hi WHM that isn't a mule outside abyssea and anything worth a damn says hi2u This is the most ludacris forum topic ever I think.
On paper ragnarok drk > apoc drk for damage. But I fail to understand why people discredit the healing aspect of apocalypse as a damage boost. I'll make it simple for you to understand. If you have more HP while SE is up, you will do more dmg. In a perfect situation... Yeah rag will outperform apoc VERY MARGINALLY. Can you duo isgebind with Ragnarok drk + whm? Doubtful. Can you tank pil when the Pld wipes on rag drk? Doubtful. That being said, if you're only choosing 1, go with apoc. You'll beat the hell out of most DD depending on your skill level/gear, and your healers will fall in love with you. Dyna isn't hard though, make both for the hell of it. Quetzalcoatl.Generic said: » Ragnarok.Unctgtg said: » Ok Generic I'll bite, you and I side by side, fighting mobs, NO healer no support. Don't need a parse. See who lasts longer. Bet you ANY gil I will with my Apoc. That right there makes Apoc > Ragnarok. And yes there are plenty of other reasons as well, but that one just jumps out at me. It's called a mule :/ Cure VI says hi Unfortunately dying on dyna-san boss with a full pt of lvl 90 while doing Aegis trial says hi "Mega Boss" :/ I wonder how hard your mule works atm! Sylph.Lorax said: » This is the most ludacris forum topic ever I think. On paper ragnarok drk > apoc drk for damage. But I fail to understand why people discredit the healing aspect of apocalypse as a damage boost. I'll make it simple for you to understand. If you have more HP while SE is up, you will do more dmg. In a perfect situation... Yeah rag will outperform apoc VERY MARGINALLY. Can you duo isgebind with Ragnarok drk + whm? Doubtful. Can you tank pil when the Pld wipes on rag drk? Doubtful. That being said, if you're only choosing 1, go with apoc. You'll beat the hell out of most DD depending on your skill level/gear, and your healers will fall in love with you. Dyna isn't hard though, make both for the hell of it. I saw apoc drk duo isgebind with a rdm/whm, so you don't even need a whm, probably could do it with brd/whm too or anything /whm with mp. And it was back at level 90 cap.
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Ragnarok.Unctgtg said: » Ok Generic I'll bite, you and I side by side, fighting mobs, NO healer no support. Don't need a parse. See who lasts longer. Bet you ANY gil I will with my Apoc. That right there makes Apoc > Ragnarok. And yes there are plenty of other reasons as well, but that one just jumps out at me. Are you serious dude? So if dancer can solo better than a war, dnc > war? Your argument makes 0 sense. Maybe you shouldn't bite things. Ragnarok is superior for damage, Apocalypse is superior for utility. That's the only answer required.
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