[Dev] Reducing Spawn Timer For All HNM's

not to mention all the favoritism and 1+year long wait list for a loldalmatica

I personally loved HNMs and all the competition and drama that went along with them. I'm not saying i loved bots or spent 3 days on my couch staring at my computer screen waiting for tiamat to pop. Are people so stupid that they've forgotten that they popped in windows? Was three hours really that god awful? Or just planting a few mules at tia or khim that could be easily monitored during the day by several people? I can only laugh when haters jump at the chance to belittle all the people that actually liked camping hnm's, because they're usually the same people that spend, literally, all day farming the same boring as mobs in abyssea for emps.

No, I didn't like being outclaimed, and No, I didn't like getting no drops, and No, I didn't take an entire alliance of extremely well geared and skilled players to kill any particular hnm. But that's not what it was about. It was the excitement of trying to hold an nm with 3 people while others gathered, or running through zones right next to someone from an apposing linkshell to grab an nm that you probably dont even need gear from, BUT SOMEONE IN YOUR SHELL DID! Call me crazy, but i enjoyed seeing my friends get drops that they've been pining over for months, or working towards a singular goal that was for the good of the whole (unfortunately, that time is dead and gone, abyssea has killed it). I can't understand someone saying that they hated doing things because it was boring or they disliked the ppl in their linkshell. "I hated doing hnms, and I hated everyone in my shell, and I didn't need any of the gear, but I was too stupid to do something else." Ya bots sucked and times were tough, but who really botted anything but kings? And HOLY CRAP, doesn't odin drop all those abjurations anyway? derp >.>

As for all the bitter bettys that complain about never having the opportunity to do nm's unless they were in an hnmls, or that "didn't have the time to be on 24/7" blablabla... You didn't have to sacrifice your life or lick your leaders feet to get things you wanted. That's why there were point systems and wishlists. Ya, there will always be someone with more points to bid on stuff that you want, but that's the nature of everything, and why shouldn't the people who put in the time and effort be rewarded? I'm sure i lost a lot more loot being outlotted by random pickup nyzul runs than I did to anyone outbidding me for stuff anyway. Before you could level a job to 95 in a day, or farm abyssea for everything you've ever wanted in a week, there were actually plenty of things to do other than endgame events, which most people, including myself for several years, were more than content to do without end. It's only now that you can beat the dam game in a week, that everyone wants to say, "oh i wanna fight that nm now just for the experience, cuz i've done everything else and I'm bored." Ya I'm sure there are more pops on any particular server now that kings are pop nms', but the people who actually want the gear, not just the one time experience, are getting completely dicked by the horrendous hq droprates, or the fact that everyone is completely out seals. I think I had a better chance of dring when i was getting outclaimed by jp bots 9/10 times than I do now that I'm out of seals, patience, and will to live. At least i only spent 3 hours camping to be disapointed, instead of all day farming seals, gil, bcnms, nq nms, and then an empty king.

But hey, keep up the good work SE. Working as intended! The downward spiral continues.

Sorry for long post, started typing and couldn't stop. END RANT.

This game is for casual player now .... too easy.
and yes SE we don't have infinite KS/BS.. thats is funny, you need farm lots of KS just to pop an NQ.. that have no sense..
and T O T A L L Y quote this guy :

I think I love you.

I'd just like to see a return to some battles that don't rely on gimmicks to be successful.

None of this riding fanatics drinks til something falls over, no triggering system, just a normal difficult fight that requires skill and strategy. With some drops at the end not a *** personal chest full of logs and mythril ore.

The problem is that players are so overpowered now that to make battles difficult they have to rely on gimmicks that make them more difficult, namely Amnesia, instant-death moves, doom and hate reset.

Perhaps the last stand or perhaps a revamped Limbus/Einherjar will bring something like this back, but I'm not holding my breath

Only thing awful about Voidwatch is the drop rates, nothing else.

voidwatch chat log...
- nq thunder
- hq katana
- nq sword
and so on...
- LOL got the body, I guess ill go burn a DD job in aby so I can use...

HNM chat log...
(far/nid example)
- we got it!!!
- my claim suck it ***!
- wooottt
- good job guys... now focus...
- OMG who turned...
- holy ***!
- who's making SC?
- blms ready?
- seriously who nuked the darter instead...
- ES sleep go.
- sleeping it
- who the *** woke it up.
- OMG ebody x2!!
I'm aware the fights were easy, however some people tend to make mistakes especially under pressure.

In terms of epicness and fun nothing has beaten hnm in the game for me. Even if you don't like the pop system or bots or whatever... you can't deny the fights were hella more interesting!

You haven't been on Ragnarok long enough. Italian flag means killing it in 29 mins 30 seconds while the other ls's drool over who gets to take it when it rages.

<3 Alca ;3

if your after abjs jus do ein.
Odin is 6 mannable easilly!
only thing worth getting from hnm these days is Defending ring and that doesnt exist, 0/7 on force pops so far ;; /sob

Love them or hate them, the 21-24 hour ground kings were an entertaining aspect of the game for a segment of the community. Removing them altogether made no sense whatsoever when you consider how easy it would have been for SE to simply introduce NQ and HQ ground king KSNM fights that were identical to their original counterparts, fights that could take place in the same zones where their pop items now originate rather than forcing you to needlessly run to Dragon's Aery/Behemoth's Dominion/Valley of Sorrows.

In short, they could have kept the old timed HNMs while also introducing the current popped HNMs and made the people on both sides of this fence happy.

Another classic case of one step forward, two steps back by SE.

Thanks SE I liked my 30m/week for logging in a mule and staring at a rock on my other computer.

Seriously though, flawed as it was, HNM did more for this game than current systems. On fenrir atleast, vw is a shout event. 99.9% of pickups cant even down Pil efficiently (20 min fights weeeeee, I get mad if that ***it alive past 5-6 mins). What do I blame this on? The removal of HNMs. Regardless of botting this, coin toss that, HNM shells worked -together-. You never had a successful shell that had horrible organization and members that had no clue what to do. Yes every dragons aery had its lolshell that couldn't kill faf, but for the most part, HNM established communities and provided them with challenges to better their group dynamics. Abyssea destroyed, in my opinion, 90% of the good hnm shells out there, be it through people leaving to "do their own thing" or people generally not enjoying the game and quitting. To a lesser extent, I still see the VW drop system doing this to friends, both casual and hardcore.

There is no bar anymore. Everyone has access to everything. If this type of game play is what suits you, you should have been playing wow for the past 5-8 years. I enjoyed FFXI in the HNM era, not because I could hold X item above your head, but because there was a general excitement/good feeling when your shell got claim and got the drop a member of your shell wanted. I mean seriously, how excited is anyone about completing an empyrean in comparison? Or seeing your second Tocis harness in a box when all you want is gd boots, and knowing 14-17 other people would love if you could put that Toics into pool for lotting, not just say Oh sorry guys gotta hold the box, I just got a second body.

I can't comment on the event itself, but the reward segment is an important part of any given event; this is why old Salvage was flawed etc.

I agree that HNM fights were considerably more interesting than anything else, but it was built upon a flawed premise. It wouldn't have been anywhere near as bad if they popped at 21 hours on the dot every time; precious little time wasted. Even the problem of botting would be reduced considerably there... it was the massive timesink revolving entirely around luck.

That or just make the world open PvP... would make things considerably more exciting if nothing else, and then THAT would be an awesome battle. PvPvE.

I participated in nearly all end game content at level 75 except HNMs (due to the stupidity of HNM linkshell politics). That being said, I'd easily camp a faffy-turtle-threeheaded-behemoth all night before going to a club. :x

Pil is harder overall by design than anything offered during the great "age of kings". Fafhogg/KB/Aspid were mostly battles of keeping a tank alive while you do damage whereas things from Abyssea onwards have had hate sheds built in, unique TP stances that lessen damage and drag out fights, aura effects that change the flow of battle and often death/doom tactics.

This stuff would have challenged most HNM shells into the ground if it happened to exist back then.

HNM shells overall weren't much different than pugs today. You had A teams that worked together seamlessly and you had B teams that barely managed to kill mobs, stalled forever or wiped in front of an audience. Often this was observable within the HNM shells themselves and often people knew the screwups from the pros and reacted accordingly.

The only point I'll grant is that with changing emphasis off camping mobs all day, much talent has been lost due to people moving off XI. The lack of content following the fall of the 3-5day wall has left the available pool of talent worse off than it was previously.


You're kidding right? Most HNM shells were composed of 10% leaders/loyalists, 80% fluff along for the ride and 10% terrible people who happened to have relics/good job spread/likable personalities.


Why were you happy you got claim? Because you were a prisoner being tossed a piece of bread every couple of days. You may deny it had anything to do with others but what Kings were was poorly implemented PVP content where you could show off in front of others just how good/bad you were at XI. What you miss is competition and that doesn't exist in XI now that fake PVP is all but gone.

It goes to show that XI would have been well to implement PVP because many individuals do like competing with eachother for a sense of fun. It doesn't help kings though as they were poorly implemented and encouraged cronyism, cheating and overall deplorable behavior.

Who doesn't love bots.

Pil is not "that difficult" and the proc system is not that hard either. If Shah mat is wiping you, there is atleast 3-4 seconds time to turn from that tp move, and you should be using PLD+MNK anyway. With hate bouncing properly, neither should even have to turn as the mob will bounce back and forth as doom wears. Mnk stop attacking from doom? Pld gets hate and vice versa. 90% of the time there isn't even a need to flash/voke/ws/cure cheat/what have you. I'm not saying the ground kings were hard, but no content in this game is ever "difficult". PLD shines after every update. Why? Because people need the safety net to adjust to new mobs. Hate reset,as well, has always been around (sup horrid roar).

Generalizing that most hnm shells are 10%/80%/whatever is also either from a bad personal experience, or a personal bias against the hnm system. Not all HNM shells were a greedy leader upgrading his <insert trophy relic here>. They did exists, but saying that's what they all were is ignorant.

Granted this game needs PVP, but that is an entirely different issue.

If you feel you were a "prisoner" I also assume there was an armed prison guard forcing you to aspire to join <insert best hnm here> and aquire <insert desired gear here> and then sit at <insert camp here> for 3 hours to 72 hours, yes?

Pil is still harder than anything KB/Nid/Aspid/Tiamat/Khim/Cerb/DI/Sandworm could throw at you as a standalone HNM.

Your argument was that these old mobs fostered some sort of professionalism amongst the old HNMbase and my point is that todays mobs are generally harder and most people would have wiped them if they existed way back when. The old kings just weren't that hard (KB was a huge joke even at his peak) and came down more to lag/bots than actually wiping due to incompetence.

The only reason people worked together so well was because the old kings forced you to use the same people over and over within your shell. Even back in '07 a PUG could be good or woefully bad so nothing has changed there.


It's a generalization but one I feel fit a majority of the shells that existed on Lakshmi during my run as an LS leader observing my competition at various camps. Most shells were in fact weighed down with individuals who were average (average isn't bad) and often relied on good leadership in order to succeed at events. You also had alot of people who were only relevant because they could bring a BRD, relic or a crucial job.

You're free to reject my position of course.


No, its not a different issue.

The appeal of kings for those who enjoyed it boiled down to "im better than you" and that is the essence of standard PvP. With Abyssea as the great equalizer and Voidwatch making loot effectively random, the ability to gain any "status" within the world of XI is effectively over and thus some of us pine for the old days of thrilling claims over rivals, watching long HNM battles, enjoying old fashioned trash talk, backstabbing, sand-kicking and trench warfare.

If this game had another form of PVP then that segment of the base would still be around and linkshell rivalries would still exist. Since this isn't the case, those people have quit or come to grips that the age of kings has drawn to close.


Don't beat around the bush. You know as well as I that kings was a timesap that effectively drew many people into a cycle of camping, shittalking and watching those windows like they were fine pieces of china. Anyone who took kings seriously was effectively a prisoner to the endgame of FFXI - a major reason why many casual players quit in droves during 08-09 as the game was going nowhere.

HNMs forced you to conform your life to them or enjoy no rewards at all. That is what made Kings a huge failure and cut the success of this game off at the knees and eventually led to a mass exodus up till Abyssea revived the game.

Another good quote lol, totally agree on what this guy just said.

i think they are going to add pvp and pvp-scenario / pve on ff14 , they stated that version 2.0 update pdf document, that's what this game needs, ballista it's not real pvp, good thing they got rid of Hiromichi Tanaka, he is way too old fashioned, and im glad that the ff14 team is full of young people with different perspectives, no wonder the game will get a huge reboot

Assuming you're being serious and not trolling ... fail.


Again, assuming you're being serious and not trolling ... FAIL.

Inter-linkshell end-game "drama" was a cancer within FFXI. You can argue, if you wish, that more recent content is the chemotherapy, if you don't like the newer content.

But given the choice between the cancer and the chemotherapy, as much as it sucks, I'm not choosing the cancer.

R.I.P. Spike Flails and racing to Dragon's Aery. Good riddance. If you have the need for PvP, play some other MMO. The drama from old-school FFXI HNM's was a *very* poor choice of remedy for those of you that have some internal need to "feel elite for the day", as you put it.

This guy is a *** GENIOUS I miss that time, it was too funny see ppls getting upset cause they couldnt claim, but more funny was to watch ppls wipe on fafhogg getting SFed or getting faffhogg stolen cause it went white because of darters. I'll never forget the HNM era!
Another genious lol SE destroyed BIGls system and made the solo/duo/trio play style become more important than great collaboration between many ppls. What the SE doesnt understand is that a MMORPG is made for meet new ppls and spend some times togheter with this stupid abyssea and VW they destroyed the base of a serious MMORPG (play togheter is no longer a must). Not counting that most nms even abyssea ones are solables so its not even funny... fafnir was hard to kill years and years ago... after ppls understood how to kill it it was easy but there was always the ossibility of a wipe thx to noobish or errors during claim. Now its IMPOSSIBLE to wipe on fafhogg.
Plus before level cap increasing with the introduce of abyssea any player also the most noob of the server, if he was a member of a hnmls, he knew what he was going to do... i met ppls who doesnt even know what is fafnir or king behemoth and these guys also has 1-2 empyreans -.- how this could happen? How is possible that someone who doesnt even which was the event of old endgame have a weapon like a relic? Ppls who deosnt know anything about this game now they has relics... *** U SE I HOPE ALL YOUR MOMS WILL DIE U RUINED THE GAME!!!

This is the best post I've seen on FFXIAH in months!

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL THIS POST IS EPIC!
U can pop 3 Carabosse and sart kiting it arounf the lake while other ppls spam bad words in /say XD well ty Crystenne this can take me bk to the dramas of HNM era, but what u said isnt enought... camping ??? is not fun like camping hnms T_T where are the 70 ppls in DA? if u are lucky now u can see 3 groups of 3 ppls killing the 3 carabosse spawn point (carabosse is the first aby nm who came to my mind). Anyway the point is that there isnt enught competition... were is the fun of seeing ppls multiple time and ppls who stal their nm causing a /say war? now its impossible to WIPE so its impossible to steal a nm cause of a wipe T_T. But yes the part of holding a nm is still better than nothing ^^

THANK YOU. THIS IS JUST AMAZING. BEST FFXIAH POST in a loong time

Sounds exactly like a few people I've run across in Abyssea and fits perfectly with them still playing with their HNM attitude and egos.

Can't [+] your post enough

Once again, how stupid do people have to be to continue to do something that they hate? You hate hnms and everything that went with it, why would you continue to participate? Go do something else? Cancer or chemo...really? I guess given the choice, i choose... OH WAIT, there is more than one choice, I can just go do something else :D Phew, I was almost being narrow minded there D:

The reason the people that actually liked these events are upset isn't because new content is being introduced, it's the idea of killing off every bit of the old content first.

It wasn't enough to ruin the kings was it?

Isn't VW and Abyssea actually provide you more chance to meet with new ppl? Since ppl /shout for VW and Abyssea NM a lot, so you get more chance to play with different ppl, and meet with different ppl etc. At least I got more chance to interact with other ppl from different LS by joining /shouts, but if it's old HNM system the relationship between different LS is probably full of trash-talk and /blist behind each other rather than working together.

And I can say the same to those who likes drama between different LS more than working together, if you enjoy doing PvP, or enjoy competition, why not go play other PvP game? This game is clearly not a game focusing on competition, or else they'd make a good PvP system already.