Drg Or Drk. Wut You Think?

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drg or drk. wut you think?
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 Ramuh.Sagittario
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By Ramuh.Sagittario 2009-10-12 14:30:59
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Nightfyre said:
I did break the troll, he's talking zerg numbers instead of survivability now. Damn, I get back from lunch and all the entertainment is gone from this thread.


I attempted to discuss survivability with you but you failed to look up the meaning of the word before you started spamming about jumps and emnity.

~._.~

You cant seriously be arrogant enough to tell me that you are 100% right 100% of the time because you throw some theoretical numbers around, I really cannot be hacked trying to explain to you the many situations where those numbers are completely irrelevant.

An like I said before, you are defending your job, I am defending mine, that does not make either of us wrong, just differing views.
 Fenrir.Nightfyre
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2009-10-12 14:34:35
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Yeah, but it was mildly entertaining and got me wanting to go solo on DRG so I didn't mind feeding him. About time it ended though.
 Fenrir.Nightfyre
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2009-10-12 14:47:03
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It continues!

sur⋅viv⋅a⋅ble  [ser-vahy-vuh-buhl] Show IPA
–adjective
1. able to be survived: Would an atomic war be survivable?
2. capable of withstanding attack or countermeasures: a bomber survivable against fighter planes.

We refer to definition 2. There are several ways to withstand an attack:

1) Take it head-on.
2) Nullify it as it occurs.
3) Nullify it before it occurs.

DRG can do all 3. DRK can do the first two.

1) Take it head-on.

DRK: Can regain that HP immediately through Drain I, II and Dread Spikes, limited by MP regeneration rate set against high MP consumption. HP/MP ratio is not favorable and is in fact almost exactly the amount that a DRK could regain in ideal circumstances when soloing, providing no room for deviation or error.
DRG: Can regain that HP immediately at an extremely efficient HP/MP ratio that minimizes the possibility of running out of MP. If a DRG is out of MP given the appropriate gear, DRK ran out of HP, MP, or both ages ago. If you wish to argue that this is not feasible in a party due to not being /mage, refer to point 3.

2) Nullify it as it occurs.

DRK: Third Eye
DRG: Third Eye

3) Nullify it before it occurs.

DRK: um... well...
DRG: Jumps. By staying low on the hate list, a DRG will never take hate and thus never take direct damage in a party environment.

I really don't mind making the point clear for posterity, so I'll say it again. The only hits a DRG will ever take in a non-solo environment are AoE, meaning the DRK would get hit by them as well. The DRK is also potentially taking damage due to being high on the hate list, but that will never happen to the DRG on anything lasting more than approximately two minutes.

Differing views is a matter for the original point of this thread. Survivability has mathematical constraints and thus is factual, not opinionated.

---

I've never claimed to be right 100% of the time and have no issues with being proven wrong, but you actually have to substantiate your view for that to occur. You have failed to do so or your views have been disproven at every turn.

EDIT: Dread Spikes does not belong under point 2. If you take fatal damage, Dread Spikes will not save you and thus falls under point 1, take it head-on. Taking it head-on implies dealing with it after the fact, which describes the mechanics of Dread Spikes.
 Cerberus.Geldric
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By Cerberus.Geldric 2009-10-12 14:56:23
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Is this actually a *** serious thread?
 Fenrir.Nightfyre
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2009-10-12 14:57:42
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If you're talking about the past few pages, not really. I'm just bored as hell.
 Cerberus.Geldric
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By Cerberus.Geldric 2009-10-12 15:02:11
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Basically the last couple. I can dumb the answers to a 10second read.

Solo; DRG is ideally better.
Zerg; DRK is ideally better.
Merits; DRG and DRK are basically equal assuming that the mobs don't lean in the favor of the DRG or the DRK and both players are geared equally.
[+]
 Fenrir.Nightfyre
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2009-10-12 15:08:37
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Sums it up nicely.
 Ramuh.Sagittario
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By Ramuh.Sagittario 2009-10-12 15:34:06
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Geldric said:
Basically the last couple. I can dumb the answers to a 10second read.

Solo; DRG is ideally better.
Zerg; DRK is ideally better.
Merits; DRG and DRK are basically equal assuming that the mobs don't lean in the favor of the DRG or the DRK and both players are geared equally.


TY

That was far better than reading another of nightfyres one sided lectures.
 Fenrir.Nightfyre
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2009-10-12 15:35:40
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ZOMG, because survivability isn't a one-sided argument at all here. Nope!

You want to talk merits of each class as a whole, that's a different story. ***is situational, etc.
 Ramuh.Sagittario
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By Ramuh.Sagittario 2009-10-12 15:41:41
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Nightfyre said:
ZOMG, because survivability isn't a one-sided argument at all here. Nope!

You want to talk merits of each class as a whole, that's a different story. ***is situational, etc.


And survivability isnt? Lol double standards or what?

So your going to tell Geldric hes wrong and spam some theoretical numbers out your *** now?
 Fenrir.Nightfyre
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2009-10-12 15:54:44
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Unless I miss my mark, Geldric was referring to damage output. In terms of value as a DD, each has merit and is preferable in specific situations.

Evidence is entirely in DRG's corner for survivability, which Geldric acknowledged by favoring it for solo purposes.

You have failed to provide any substantial evidence for your position and have failed to refute mine with anything more than logical fallacies; specifically: ad hominem, appeal to spite, appeal to ridicule, personal attack, genetic fallacy, red herring, poisoning the well, and strawman. Also, biased sample in your parse. I have yet to see a substantiated argument that actually demonstrated a DRK has equal or greater survivability in comparison to a DRG, and to be honest the burden of proof has been on you the entire time.

You have yet to submit a shred of evidence that has not been sufficiently countered; I didn't need to say half of the things I have but did anyway to make the point clear and basically because I can. As has been evaluated by outside viewpoints, you are nothing more than a troll and a laughably bad one at that.
 Fairy.Vegetto
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By Fairy.Vegetto 2009-10-12 16:57:53
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Sagittario said:
you sound like a fat lawyer lolz

you can process your numbers all you like, when a DRG can outdamage a DRK with KC/Riddill then il be impressed. Why dont you read the numbers a DRK makes with them babys.

Why the *** would you use a ridill? That gimps KC's dmg by a ton. Kraken > Kraken + Ridill
 Ramuh.Sagittario
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By Ramuh.Sagittario 2009-10-12 16:59:02
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Nightfyre said:
Unless I miss my mark, Geldric was referring to damage output. In terms of value as a DD, each has merit and is preferable in specific situations.

Evidence is entirely in DRG's corner for survivability, which Geldric acknowledged by favoring it for solo purposes.

You have failed to provide any substantial evidence for your position and have failed to refute mine with anything more than logical fallacies; specifically: ad hominem, appeal to spite, appeal to ridicule, personal attack, genetic fallacy, red herring, poisoning the well, and strawman. Also, biased sample in your parse. I have yet to see a substantiated argument that actually demonstrated a DRK has equal or greater survivability in comparison to a DRG, and to be honest the burden of proof has been on you the entire time.

You have yet to submit a shred of evidence that has not been sufficiently countered; I didn't need to say half of the things I have but did anyway to make the point clear and basically because I can. As has been evaluated by outside viewpoints, you are nothing more than a troll and a laughably bad one at that.


And you are but a little fishy rising to the bait every time I post lol
 Fenrir.Nightfyre
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By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2009-10-12 17:02:06
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In boredom I seek out trolls. Keeps my mental activity up and occasionally is genuinely entertaining. You've been poor sport.
 Kujata.Segaia
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By Kujata.Segaia 2009-10-13 00:28:11
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Sagittario said:

And you are but a little fishy rising to the bait every time I post lol


Sagittario said:

its not my fault your feel the need to inflate your ego to compensate for the little things in your life.


Well you said it yourself lol. It is pretty funny how you deny everything without clearly thinking about it. If you don't understand the calculations we provided you... gdi wth were you doing in class? Do you actually understand how calculations take effect in the game and when?

This is not RL, everything in ffxi follows calculations and formulas. The point with "oh it depends on the situation and you need to react quick" is invalid and therefore you haven't understood any of them. Party-calculations are very accurate, because you are doing recurring actions, we parsed pre-calculated enhancements years ago and still do it, it is simply valid, period.

If you do that for 2-5 mins you are right (but theese are not situations we are speaking of), but when you use enhancements like food and calculate the overall increase of your DoT, the longer you remain in this recurring situations the more you will come close to the result of your calc, simply logic and math.

Hmmm.. imma jump on the trollfeedtrain with nightfyre. Just funny how we killed saggi's arguements pages ago and he still tries to proof they are wrong lol. Oh yea and before you quote it: "yes i pumped up my ego by posting this, YAAAAY"!!!!!

This thread is awesome. Please continue. xD
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