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Abortion
Server: Sylph
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Posts: 15066
By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2011-07-09 01:57:11
Bahamut.Jetackuu said: Sylph.Tigerwoods said: Bahamut.Jetackuu said: Sylph.Tigerwoods said: Quote: It doesn't really matter if he's required or not, it's part his property. Ok, let's say we have joint property, a boat.
If I don't want the boat any more, I don't have to upkeep/be responsible for it for 9 months until you decide to get off your *** and come get it.
Actually you do... Not for 9 months. I could get a court order that you'd have to come get it within a much more reasonable amount of time, provided you still wanted it, lol.
It would be a better comparison to say it was an animal of some sort and you wanted rid of it etc
Say the animal would die if it was moved for a certain amount of time, no court would order it to be moved anyway. 9 months is a very short period of time... I still wouldn't be forced to live there and take care of it.
For example, I'm going to move. You can come move in if you want to take care if yourself, but I'm going.
At that point, it's your choice whether you want to come take care of it or not
Bahamut.Jetackuu
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By Bahamut.Jetackuu 2011-07-09 01:57:34
I'm not saying that the decision is all one or the others, however currently the males are screwed no matter what and the male has no say in any part of it, it shouldn't be that way.
In cases where the couple is still together I doubt (in practice) that it's not often a joint decision. (in either direction)
but hey, I may be wrong.
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By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2011-07-09 01:58:58
If he doesn't want it, do I think he should be forced to take care of it? I don't, but do I think he has any say whatsoever in what she wants to do with her body over a 9 month period? Sure do
Bahamut.Jetackuu
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By Bahamut.Jetackuu 2011-07-09 01:59:27
Sylph.Tigerwoods said: Bahamut.Jetackuu said: Sylph.Tigerwoods said: Bahamut.Jetackuu said: Sylph.Tigerwoods said: Quote: It doesn't really matter if he's required or not, it's part his property. Ok, let's say we have joint property, a boat.
If I don't want the boat any more, I don't have to upkeep/be responsible for it for 9 months until you decide to get off your *** and come get it.
Actually you do... Not for 9 months. I could get a court order that you'd have to come get it within a much more reasonable amount of time, provided you still wanted it, lol.
It would be a better comparison to say it was an animal of some sort and you wanted rid of it etc
Say the animal would die if it was moved for a certain amount of time, no court would order it to be moved anyway. 9 months is a very short period of time... I still wouldn't be forced to live there and take care of it.
For example, I'm going to move. You can come move in if you want to take care if yourself, but I'm going.
At that point, it's your choice whether you want to come take care of it or not
Not so sure on that, but then again depends on court, too hypothetical.
Doesn't really matter.
Bahamut.Jetackuu
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By Bahamut.Jetackuu 2011-07-09 02:00:16
Sylph.Tigerwoods said: If he doesn't want it, do I think he should be forced to take care of it? I don't, but do I think he has any say whatsoever in what she wants to do with her body over a 9 month period? Sure do
She kind have gave him that say when she let him boink her, just saying.
Leviathan.Niniann
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By Leviathan.Niniann 2011-07-09 02:00:52
Bahamut.Jetackuu said: It would be a better comparison to say it was an animal of some sort and you wanted rid of it etc
Say the animal would die if it was moved for a certain amount of time, no court would order it to be moved anyway. 9 months is a very short period of time...
Or she could be a *** and make an excuse to put the animal down. >_>
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By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2011-07-09 02:01:48
Bahamut.Jetackuu said: Sylph.Tigerwoods said: If he doesn't want it, do I think he should be forced to take care of it? I don't, but do I think he has any say whatsoever in what she wants to do with her body over a 9 month period? Sure do
She kind have gave him that say when she let him boink her, just saying. Not at all, but she's entitled to change her mind, even if that were the case.
Bahamut.Jetackuu
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By Bahamut.Jetackuu 2011-07-09 02:02:59
Sylph.Tigerwoods said: Bahamut.Jetackuu said: Sylph.Tigerwoods said: If he doesn't want it, do I think he should be forced to take care of it? I don't, but do I think he has any say whatsoever in what she wants to do with her body over a 9 month period? Sure do
She kind have gave him that say when she let him boink her, just saying. Not at all, but she's entitled to change her mind, even if that were the case.
Why's that?
Leviathan.Niniann
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By Leviathan.Niniann 2011-07-09 02:05:06
Bahamut.Jetackuu said: Why's that?
Maybe she thought the guy she did it with was the guy of her dreams, and when she becomes pregnant she realizes that she doesn't want this demon spawn's child.
idkman
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By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2011-07-09 02:05:06
Bahamut.Jetackuu said: Sylph.Tigerwoods said: Bahamut.Jetackuu said: Sylph.Tigerwoods said: If he doesn't want it, do I think he should be forced to take care of it? I don't, but do I think he has any say whatsoever in what she wants to do with her body over a 9 month period? Sure do
She kind have gave him that say when she let him boink her, just saying. Not at all, but she's entitled to change her mind, even if that were the case.
Why's that? The same way you can back out of any deal that you haven't entered a legal binding contract in.
People change their minds.
Let's say I'm going to help you with your rent for a while.
I pay it once. The next time the rent is due, I can easily say no w/o any consequences.
Bahamut.Jetackuu
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By Bahamut.Jetackuu 2011-07-09 02:10:22
Sylph.Tigerwoods said: Bahamut.Jetackuu said: Sylph.Tigerwoods said: Bahamut.Jetackuu said: Sylph.Tigerwoods said: If he doesn't want it, do I think he should be forced to take care of it? I don't, but do I think he has any say whatsoever in what she wants to do with her body over a 9 month period? Sure do
She kind have gave him that say when she let him boink her, just saying. Not at all, but she's entitled to change her mind, even if that were the case.
Why's that? The same way you can back out of any deal that you haven't entered a legal binding contract in.
People change their minds.
Let's say I'm going to help you with your rent for a while.
I pay it once. The next time the rent is due, I can easily say no w/o any consequences.
consenting is a form of verbal contract, not to mention your scenario was a one sided benefit, not two.
I'm going to go back to playing SNES games on my flashcart on my DS and pass out while doing so, so have fun.
I'm still slightly on the fence, your points are valid however it still isn't logical or right for a man to have no say (imo), despite the other opinions I have that conflict with it.
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By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2011-07-09 02:12:11
Quote: consenting is a form of verbal contract, not to mention your scenario was a one sided benefit, not two. Not at all. Consenting is only agreement to have sex. You can agree to have sex without agreeing to birth a child.
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Server: Ifrit
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By Ifrit.Eikechi 2011-07-09 02:13:22
As unfair as it may be, I do see you guys' side of this (Poupee, Tiger, Serj). It sucks, but in the end it is her body. (though some gals' bodies go right back to the way they were after birth)
Leviathan.Niniann
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By Leviathan.Niniann 2011-07-09 02:14:37
Ifrit.Eikechi said: As unfair as it may be, I do see you guys' side of this (Poupee, Tiger, Serj). It sucks, but in the end it is her body. (though some gals' bodies go right back to the way they were after birth)
You still have to miss work for a few months. That's enough to get fired(or lose hours), and given the job market....
Edit: Also I'm pretty sure every guy I'm with knows I don't want *** kids ever. Does that make me saying hellz no better? :<
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By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2011-07-09 02:16:48
Quote: (though some gals' bodies go right back to the way they were after birth) won't necessarily be about that for most.
Could just not want morning sickness, the pain of the birth itself, or being limited to what you can do physically because you have a fetus in your stomach. Also, possible health risks, etc.
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By Ifrit.Eikechi 2011-07-09 02:16:50
Well I suppose thats true too Nini... Ya, it makes sense if she had a nice job to begin with. And this market is terrible atm lol
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By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2011-07-09 02:18:13
Leviathan.Niniann said: Ifrit.Eikechi said: As unfair as it may be, I do see you guys' side of this (Poupee, Tiger, Serj). It sucks, but in the end it is her body. (though some gals' bodies go right back to the way they were after birth)
You still have to miss work for a few months. That's enough to get fired(or lose hours), and given the job market....
Edit: Also I'm pretty sure every guy I'm with knows I don't want *** kids ever. Does that make me saying hellz no better? :< if you get preg, don't say ***and get aborted asap!
Leviathan.Niniann
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By Leviathan.Niniann 2011-07-09 02:19:45
Sylph.Tigerwoods said: Quote: (though some gals' bodies go right back to the way they were after birth) won't necessarily be about that for most.
Could just not want morning sickness, the pain of the birth itself, or being limited to what you can do physically because you have a fetus in your stomach. Also, possible health risks, etc.
Yeah pretty much this. There's a lot of things about pregnancy that suck. Also you have to completely change your eating habits. And let's say she's a smoker or alcoholic or drug user... she'd have to quit those etc. It's just a lot of ***. Also you can't take a lot of allergy medications while having a baby (which would've really sucked for me if I had a kid 5 or so years ago). Just lots of complications people who've never been pregnant think about.
Ifrit.Eikechi said: Well I suppose thats true too Nini... Ya, it makes sense if she had a nice job to begin with. And this market is terrible atm lol
/nod
I think if she had a nice job she probably would be ready to have a child (with the right person). >____>;
Leviathan.Niniann
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By Leviathan.Niniann 2011-07-09 02:20:17
Sylph.Tigerwoods said: if you get preg, don't say ***and get aborted asap!
Honestly, if for some reason I ever do get pregnant, that's exactly what I'm going to do. :x
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By Ifrit.Eikechi 2011-07-09 02:20:28
Why would you never want kids Nini? (just curious... if too personal, dont answer :P)
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By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2011-07-09 02:22:10
Ifrit.Eikechi said: Why would you never want kids Nini? (just curious... if too personal, dont answer :P) Lol I know I don't. Financial liability and have to make drastic life changes to adjust to them
Leviathan.Niniann
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By Leviathan.Niniann 2011-07-09 02:27:38
Ifrit.Eikechi said: Why would you never want kids Nini? (just curious... if too personal, dont answer :P)
Kids are horrible horrible creatures. If I ever had a kid it'd only be because my partner strongly had the urge to have a child, and was willing to do a large majority of the work. That or con my mother into taking care of it!
Anyway, most women have that 'motherly' nature. I don't have that, like at all. I don't like babies. I don't think they're cute, I don't want to hold them--in fact when my parents/sister tried to make me bond with my niece and nephew I was absolutely irritated/miserable, until I straight out refused to have anything to do with them.
I only like older children 7~13ish, but of course you have to deal with the younger ones to get older ones. I'd rather not.
I'd go on but I have to go for now! D:
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Server: Sylph
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By Sylph.Tigerwoods 2011-07-09 02:30:40
Quote: I don't think they're cute, I don't want to hold them- Wouldn't touch my niece till she was able to walk on her own and talk complete sentences.
They tried to get me to hold her @2 and I was like no thx, I'd prolly drop her
Pandemonium.Siguein
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By Pandemonium.Siguein 2011-07-09 02:38:53
Unprotected sex can give you a horrible disease called children.
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By Artemicion 2011-07-09 02:39:16
I'm on the fence with kids.
The concept of raising one and seeing what kind of person they turn out to be from your choices in bringing them up is interesting and appealing in some aspects, but the fact of the matter is, children at almost any stage in life make me feel uncomfortable and awkward. Despite their age, they hold some sort of position that differs from relatives that are equal or greater than your age, or peers you would regard as friends, etc.
I suppose if I were to have a kid, I'd prefer to adopt one simply because it makes the boundaries of kin much more defined. Rather have someone as "part of the team" than being a "mini-me" which is a funky concept for me to grasp, let alone live with.
But in general: Children {Thanks for the offer, but I'll have to pass}.
Phoenix.Sehachan
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By Phoenix.Sehachan 2011-07-09 04:14:38
*backreads*
+1 Tiger.
Also I don't want babies either. Ever.
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Server: Bismarck
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By Bismarck.Dracondria 2011-07-09 06:05:33
Leviathan.Niniann said: Ifrit.Eikechi said: As unfair as it may be, I do see you guys' side of this (Poupee, Tiger, Serj). It sucks, but in the end it is her body. (though some gals' bodies go right back to the way they were after birth)
You still have to miss work for a few months. That's enough to get fired(or lose hours), and given the job market....
Edit: Also I'm pretty sure every guy I'm with knows I don't want *** kids ever. Does that make me saying hellz no better? :<
Here you get 480 days off work if you want, 60 days reserved for each parent and the rest you can divide up as you want. You can't get fired for taking time off work and you still get paid. This is a translated link of how it works
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By Bismarck.Ruizutatakau 2011-07-09 07:46:06
Should be allowed to make the choice you feel is right.
Homosexuals lucked out on this one, and if abortion is murder then swallowing is cannibalism!
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Phoenix.Sehachan
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By Phoenix.Sehachan 2011-07-09 07:59:55
Bismarck.Ruizutatakau said: if abortion is murder then swallowing is cannibalism! lol'd
Ragnarok.Harpunnik
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By Ragnarok.Harpunnik 2011-07-09 08:32:36
Not even going to bother posting about the actual debate in here. But more responding to people not sure if they want to have kids or what not.
As a still recently new father (my kid will be turning 1 in 2 weeks) I can say that any assumptions you have about parenthood is false. So far it has been nothing like I expected, at all. The bond you build and the absolute love you can have for your child is amazing. It has begun changing me in many ways, and all positive.
I'm a guy, babies never interested me, and I still think all babies are ugly...cept for mine now xD. I graduated with a marine biology degree, I still think child birth is a miracle and cherish and think every development (crawling, walking, teeth, etc)is special. Yeah...happens a billion times a day on this planet...but it is different when its your kid.
Parenthood is truely one of those topics that unless you experience/experienced it, your assumptions are most likely false.
vs Kansas:
Kansas to Shut Down All but One Abortion Clinic Friday | Mother Jones
http://motherjones.com/mojo/2011/06/kansas-shut-down-all-abortion-clinics-friday
Quote: This story has been updated below.
It's official. Every abortion provider in the state of Kansas has been denied a license to continue operating as of July 1. As we reported last week, strict new state laws put in place this month threatened to close the remaining three abortion clinics in Kansas. The staff of one of these facilities, a Planned Parenthood clinic in Overland Park, initially thought their operation could survive the strict new standards. But on Thursday afternoon, Planned Parenthood announced that the Overland Park clinic has thus far been denied a license to continue operating—effectively cutting off access to legal abortion in the entire state.
The new law, which takes effect Friday, establishes new standards for abortion providers—standards apparently designed to make compliance difficult. The rules require changes to the size and number of rooms, compel clinics to have additional supplies on hand, and even mandate room temperatures for the facilities. Given that the rules were released less than two weeks before clinics were expected to be in compliance, many providers knew they wouldn't be able to obtain a license to continue operating. The laws, often called "targeted regulation of abortion providers," or TRAP laws, are an increasingly common legislative maneuver to limit access to abortion by redering it tough, if not impossible, for providers to comply.
With today's announcement that the Overland Park clinic was denied a license, Kansas becomes the first state to effectively make the legally protected right to obtain abortion services moot. One clinic in Kansas has already filed suit against the new rules, and a hearing on that suit is planned for Friday. Planned Parenthood is also expected to sue. The clinics are also expected to seek an injunction to block the law from being enforced. UPDATE: Planned Parenthood has filed suit. They are seeking an emergency injunction to allow their clinic to remain open while the lawsuit is pending.
"The women of Kansas waiting on their scheduled procedures will pay the immediate price for this outrageous and flagrant exertion of the radical GOP’s legislative muscle under the Brownback administration," said Kansas NOW in a statement Thursday, referring to conservative Republican Gov. Sam Brownback. "The freedom and right to legal healthcare has been denied to the women of Kansas."
UPDATE: In a statement issued Thursday evening, Peter Brownlie, president of Planned Parenthood of Kansas and Mid-Missouri, seemed to hold out some hope that its clinic could still obtain a license to continue operating, even as the organization sought an injuction to block the law from taking effect. "We have been targeted in this bill and Kansas women are the ones who will suffer if their health care is taken away," said Brownlie. "This is radical, extreme government intrusion into private health care."
UPDATE 5:45 PM EST THURSDAY: The Associated Press is reporting that the Kansas Department of Health and Environment, after initially denying a license to Planned Parenthood, has now changed their mind. Stay tuned for more updates. PP said inspectors were back at the clinic Thursday reevaluating it, after earlier this week indicating that they would not be able to obtain one.
UPDATE 6:08 PM EST THURSDAY: Planned Parenthood just announced that the health department has, in fact, decided to grant it a license to continue operating. The PP clinic in Overland Park will remain open. "Notwithstanding that the regulations are burdensome and unnecessary, the findings of the inspection indicate what we have known and said throughout this process: Planned Parenthood operates with the highest standards of patient care and has rigorous safety procedures in place," Brownlie said.
UPDATE 7:15 PM EST FRIDAY: A federal judge in Kansas City has blocked the new abortion clinic regulations from taking effect.
Kansas Judge Blocks Abortion Clinic Regs | Mother Jones
http://motherjones.com/mojo/2011/07/kansas-judge-blocks-abortion-clinic-regs
Quote: A judge in Kansas has blocked the state's strict new regulations on abortion providers from taking effect, a move that will allow all three clinics in the state to continue offering services, the Kansas City Star reports.
On Friday afternoon, U.S District Judge Carlos Murguia granted a request from two clinics—Aid for Women in Kansas City and the Center for Women's Health in Overland Park—to grant temporary relief from the new rules, which took effect July 1. The clinics were denied a license to continue operating after the state issued new rules on June 17 that would have required both clinics to make major changes to their facilities. A third clinic, owned by Planned Parenthood, was granted a license to continue operating on Thursday.
The injunction will remain in place until the court hears the formal challenge to the state's regulations.
"This is a tremendous victory for women in Kansas and against the underhanded efforts of anti-choice politicians to shut down abortion providers in the state," said Center for Reproductive Rights president Nancy Northup, which joined with the clinics in filing the legal challenge to the law, in a statement Friday evening. "The facts were clear—this licensing process had absolutely nothing to do with patient health or safety and everything to do with political shenanigans."
The Kansas legislature passed a new law in April creating a new designation for abortion providers under the state's licensing system, and directed the Department of Health and Environment to issue new rules. The department issued 36-pages of rules on June 17 (though the clinics did not receive copies until June 20), mandating things like the size of waiting and recovery rooms, the number of bathrooms, and the required temperatures for each room in the facility. Clinic owners argued that it was impossible to meet the new standards, given that they were released just two weeks before the clinics were required to comply. Moreover, they argued, the rules had little to do with protecting patients and were designed to shut down the clinics.
This type of law, often called "targeted regulation of abortion providers," or "TRAP" laws, isn't exactly new or unique, but Kansas' would have gone farther than others in actually shutting down abortion providers.
Kate Sheppard covers energy and environmental politics in Mother Jones' Washington bureau. For more of her stories, click here. She Tweets here. Get Kate Sheppard's RSS feed.
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