Paladin FAQ, Info, And Trade Studies.

Language: JP EN DE FR
New Items
2019-10-10
users online
Forum » FFXI » Jobs » Paladin » Paladin FAQ, Info, and Trade Studies.
Paladin FAQ, Info, and Trade Studies.
First Page 2 ... 44 45 46
 Phoenix.Neosutra
Offline
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
user: neosutra
Posts: 620
By Phoenix.Neosutra 2011-05-13 18:42:52
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Shield Bash! ~FFXI Paladin FAQ Thread

- Compiled testing info, FAQs, Gear selections, Job Discussion. –

This thread is designed to be a compilation of current PLD tests, as well as answers to common Questions.


*****************************************************************************************************

Index:
1. PLD Spellcast Examples.
2. PLD FAQs
a. Damage Equations, And Enmity Testing.
b. Shield Skill Tests and Hypothesis.
3. Job Abilities and Merits
4. Equipment!
i. Weapons
ii. Gear
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


1. PLD SPELLCAST:

Perhaps one of the most important parts of a successful job is your Spellcast or Gearswap Script.

I’ve removed my old spellcast, as it’s a bit outdated, and I’ve shifted to a more advanced version of the templates found below:

http://pastebin.com/u/Bokura

I suggest each player take time and work on mastering these scripts. They’re very effective and already have decent gear suggestions for each set. I added a couple sets to the above script (Ochain Shield Mastery set for one).

With the above Paladin script, you can swap between your idle/tp/ws sets by using a “trigger spell”. Specifically, having a macro that casts /ma Poison V <me> will swap between your specific desired sets. A macro that casts /ma Barbed Crescent <me> will toggle between straight PDT, Hybrid, and standard TP sets. And a macro that casts /ma Aegis Schism <me> will toggle on/off your MDT sets.

Edit: We are working on a generic Gearswap Paladin Script, and I will post it when it is complete.


2. PLD FAQs.
Before I get into the PLD job abilities, merits, and gear, it’s necessary for each player picking up Paladin to understand the basics of Enmity and Damage taken.

Game Mechanics

i. Enmity - Enmity consists of two separate parts, Volatile and Cumulative Enmity.
Kanican, the Enmity master, has compiled information on this breakdown, and you can use the following link to determine just how much Volatile and Cumulative Enmity you're actions are creating.
Your Volatile Enmity is always going down at a steady rate, while your Cumulative Enmity decreases as you take damage. You can use the Link here to determine which JAs and Spells can best be used to maintain a steady rate of Enmity.
http://kanican.livejournal.com/tag/enmity%20table!
A keen understanding of how much enmity your actions are creating leads to a more robust play style and a greater ability to keep and manage hate. Typically however, the best way to keep and hold hate is through damage and cures.
- A good Pld should make use of well timed JAs, Self Cure cheats, and Damage to maintain enmity.

edit: As of March 27th 2013, SE has adjusted the Enmity equation as follows:


Enmity Adjustments
In regards to enmity, we will be performing the first stage of the content that was discussed previously. To start out, we will be making adjustments so that if the target is level 51 or above, the enmity generated in proportion to the damage dealt, and the enmity incurred in relation to the amount of HP cured, will be reduced. In the case that the target is above level 99, the amount of enmity generated will be reduced to 30% compared to before adjustment (the current level). We are also making adjustments at the same time so that the enmity gains from Cure V are reduced.

While this isn't limited to enmity adjustments, we understand this is an element that we need to continuously follow and address, and I wanted to remind you that this would be the first step.



ii. Damage Equations -
Magic Damage:
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Calculating_Magic_Damage
I'm not going to get into the exact breakdown, as people can read this page.

However, the key factor here that everyone should take away is that 5 main things effect how much magic damage you take:
1. Your magic damage taken -%. (Shell, MDT, DT gear).
2. Resists (related to lvl and % of resist gear).
3. Magic Defense Bonus (as a ratio to the Mob's MAB).
4. Number of targets in Range.
5. Your Mnd/Int Relative to your enemy's stats.
The most important stat is to first cap MDT, then you can worry about the other slots.

Physical Damage:
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Calculating_Physical_Damage
Damage is basically Base Damage * pDif. With Base damage equaling your Weapon Damage + fStr (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/STR_-_VIT_Difference_Function). And pDif being a ratio of your attack to the Mob's Defense (or vice versa when calculating damage you'd take), with a level correction function: http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/STR_-_VIT_Difference_Function.
Look to these simple equations when determine which weapon/weaponskill or gear would be the superior option. Also, when determine which piece of gear or set of gear/food/buffs will net the most damage reduction, look at these equations.
As with MDT, Damage Taken -% and PDT -% generally work best for pure damage mitigation. That's not to say that defense is useless. You can drive down the enemy's DPS by upping your Defense and thus lowering his pDif. A generally rule of thumb is to *** "what % will this defense raise my total defense", and that is approximately how much PDT% you're adding from that slot.
This gets a bit more complicated when assessing whether to use Shield Skill or Damage Taken pieces, but we'll get into that in a bit when we address Shield Skill proc rate analysis below (suffice it to say, you're almost always better off using -DT or -PDT gear over shield skill, due to how low of an effect shield skill has at the moment, if your concern is purely damage mitigation).

edit: As for March 27th 2013, SE has adjusted the damage formula to emphasize defense when mobs are much greater than your level:



Attack/Defense Ratio Adjustments (MARCH 27TH).
This is in regards to the post I made previously about future battle system adjustments.
We will be making adjustments based on the content described under the "Regarding Defense" header. After the adjustment, in the case that a player's defense is significantly lower compared to a monster’s attack power, the amount of damage received will be higher than what it is currently.

Example:

For the below values:
Monster attack damage value = 100
Monster attack power = 1000
Your defense = 250

The damage received will be as follows:
Pre-adjustment amount of damage received = 200
Post-adjustment amount of damage received = 400
*This is just a simple calculation to make it easy to illustrate the change.

To go along with the above, the below two adjustments will also be made:
The maximum value for damage dealt from the attack defense ratio will be adjusted so they are identical for both single-handed weapons and two-handed weapons.
The defense reduction penalty for "Counterstance" will be reduced.


Shield Skill Testing:

After many years of mystery, we've reasonably nailed down a hypothetical shield block equation that explains why we weren't natively capping shield block on low end mobs. Originally we thought there was a cap on shield block by shield size, but additions of high shield skill shields on the test server have allowed us to shed light on some of our previous mysteries.

For one, each shield has a basic block %. That block % is enhanced by the amount of shield skill ABOVE your current level's shield skill. Similar to how summoners obtain a bonus based on their summoning magic beyond their level's skill. The base block % for shields goes down as shield size goes up (except for Aegis, which is a size 5 shield with the block % of a size 3).

In addition to your shield skill, the your block % is affected by the level of the mob you're fighting. This acts as a penalty, reducing block % proportional to half of the level difference between you and your mob. (Note, you don't get a block % bonus for being above the mob's level. So this acts like the level correction factor in pdif).

Thus the shield skill equation (that matches all current testing results) is:

Shield Block Rate = Base_Block_Rate + [((Shield Skill – Base_Skill)/SkillDivider) – LevelCorrectionFactor]

Base_Block_Rate = Depends on shield type, ~50% for Type 3 (proposed, though it could be lower, as I'm oversimplifying the skill divider).

Skill_Divider = 1~6 (depending on skill level tiers, I'm guessing a stepwise increase every 100skill or so).

LevelCorrectionFactor = (MobLevel-PlayerLevel)*2, and only applies to mobs above our level, similar to pdif level correction.


Damage_Absorption = BASE + Shield_Defense / 2

This is based on a compilation of shield test data from Showmo, Martel, Gustavve, Neosutra, and a few others. Most recent testing can be found at:
http://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/21671/paladin-faq-info-and-trade-studies/27/

One of the main take aways from this testing is that it takes A LOT of shield skill to up your block rate (5 skill for 1% block rate about at 99+), and thus there are -very- few slots where you will net less damage taken over just stacking -DT or –PDT, unless you’re focusing on a Shield Mastery set for TP gain.



3. Job Abilities and Merits!


Job Abilities
Level Name
01 Invincible
05 Holy Circle
15 Shield Bash
30 Sentinel
35 Cover
62 Rampart
75 (Merit) Fealty
75 (Merit) Chivalry
78 Divine Emblem
87 Sepulcher
95 Palisade

Group 1 Merits
Level Name
Merit Shield Bash Recast
Merit Holy Circle Recast
Merit Sentinel Recast
Merit Cover Effect Length
Merit Rampart Recast

Paladin Job Abilities are pretty straight forward, so the only real question anyone should have is "What do I merit?" Honestly, there is no right answer to that. It depends on your gear and playstyle.

You generally can't go wrong with 5/5 sentinel recast. I like Shield Bash recast with Aegis. Fealty is a must, and chivalry is great for low manning things and longer fights where MP may be a problem. Take some time and see where your playstyle is and make a decision that fits!



4. Equipment: The last major "FAQ" for Plds is "what the hell do I wear for X".


There is almost never a singular answer to this, so I'll cover a few of the main "must have" gear sets, starting with weapons. People should grow their sets however as they develop an understanding of what they need to accomplish. That being:

1. Keep hate.
2. Stay alive.



Paladin Weapons!

Shields: Paladins are defined by their shields. Without them you’re just a less than mediocre DD with very few offensive job abilities. If you’re serious about Paladin, you should be working actively towards one (or both) of these shields. A career Paladin should have both. Fortunately, they’re both relatively easy to get.


Aegis


- The original Paladin Relic! And with the updates to Aegis it now defies the 50% MDT cap and allows the wearer to reach the new hardcap of 87.5% MDT, making any Aegis PLD near immune to Magic damage! Fortunately, you can farm Aegis by low manning currency and have yourself a nice shiny shield in a couple months (or faster if you just buy the currency).

Aegis definitely changes the job and allows you to take on foes that make other jobs shutter. The only down side is it’s block rate isn’t much higher than your standard size 3 shield. At around a block rate of 50% (which you generally won’t reach on higher end mobs), you’re still taking a lot of physical damage. Fortunately Palisade, Reprisal, and Sentinel help reduce this problem.


Ochain


- In many ways this is the shield Paladins have always wanted. Ochain is a size 3 shield with a hidden +300 shield skill, which causes it to block at 100% or near 100% block rate on the majority of mobs in the game.

It doesn’t block as much damage as Aegis, but the extremely high block rate causes it to be a MASSIVE reduction in physical damage taken. Simply put, Ochain is to PDT as Aegis is to MDT.

Ochain is also cheap to make. It is however very time consuming. The 50 plates for the first stage is relatively easy, however the 75 souls for the following stage can be a nightmare. The conversion rate for the Tier1 and Tier2 abyssite is sporadic at best, and there is the additional limitation of a 10 min repop on the T2. All in all however, a small group should be able to farm up the 75 souls without too much trouble, as long as they stick to it! The final stage is relatively easy, as the dragon is a single KI pop, and can be tanked from behind (with a whitemage out of party) to avoid a lot of the nasty moves.

Swords: Part of keeping hate is maintaining damage. In addition to that, Paladin can low man and solo a lot of content, depending on the weapon of choice. As with shields, each weapon has it’s own purpose and shining area.

Burtgang


- The great and powerful, and shiny, Burtgang! This sword is one of the top trophies for Paladin these days, and fortunately has a lot of functionality. With the new update the sword now breaks the PDT cap, allowing the user to get to -68% PDT. Combine that level of PDT with a high block rate shield and you’re a hard beast to kill!

In addition to the massive PDT and Enmity bonuses, Burtgang offers a nice boost to DOT via it’s level 3 aftermath. When paired with a decent Weapon Skill like Requiscat or CDC, your Paladin can do some heavy damage.

In situations where you can maintain AM3, Burtgang becomes the superior Defensive and Offensive Paladin Weapon.


Excalibur


- The original Knights of the Round relic of choice. Excalibur is a pretty easy weapon to make and is one of the more attractive options for an up in coming Paladin.

Anytime you're unable to maintain mythic aftermath, or when you're swapping shields out, Excalibur will be the best DPS sword.


Almace


Almace was king for DPS during the Abyssea eras, but has fallen behind as both Burtgang and Excalibur received boosts. It also has the problem of having it's 99 trial phase ***-blocked by the death of Voidwatch. If you do however happen to make an iLvL Almace, you'll find it a handy DPS toy for when you can maintain the Aftermath (but still behind iLvL Excalibur and Burtgang).


Ragnarok


- Mostly a toy for Paladin, but it’s extremely useful for War and Drk, so it’s not a bad toy to have around when you want to just have a little fun. Resolution makes this Great Sword a beast and Paladin still has good proficiency in this combat area. The only down side is a lack of real combat job abilities.

Delve weapons:


Shahur + Realmreazer are also fantastic alternatives for pure DPS.
[+]
 Phoenix.Neosutra
Offline
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
user: neosutra
Posts: 620
By Phoenix.Neosutra 2011-05-13 18:43:59
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Gearsets:

Several of the other guides have "High end, Mid tier, and Low end" gear sets, however I'm just going to stick with high end, and suggest users use Moten's DPS spreadsheet when determining proper alternatives to any given piece.

Melee:

Accuracy Capped Melee:
ItemSet 318005

Accuracy Focused Melee:
ItemSet 318004


Damage Down



PDT/DT - Accuracy Focused:
ItemSet 318006

^This is really user preference. You can add more accuracy or DT based on the situation and you're comfort level.

Magic Down:


Lots of real variations to this, and you'll want a different set for when you do/don't have Aegis on. Basic premis is "cap your 50% MDT (or 87.5% with Aegis), then worry about other slots." There's some other minor Magic Defense Bonus Gear you can throw into the rings/earrings, but with very high levels of MDT, I choose to spend my inventory on other pieces.

Also note: A Whm with Shellra5 merits already gives you 27.34% MDT, so you only need another 22.66% MDT if you're not using Aegis, and only need another 6% MDT if you're using 99 Aegis (27.34% + 50% + 6% = ~83% hardcap).

Spell-Enmity:

Fast Cast/Enmity Set:
ItemSet 45319

^Depending on what plugins you're using, you can break this into two different sets, one that focuses completely on precast (fast cast/etc), and one that ends the spell with capped haste (for recast) and maximum enmity. Unless you're using Gearswap, you'll have a hard time getting a precast/midcast combination on your super fast spells.

Cure Cheats!

HP Down/Precast:
ItemSet 318008


HP Up/Enmity/Potency/midcast:
ItemSet 318009

Weapon Skills:


Requeiscat WS
ItemSet 314922

Lastly:

Shield Bash!
ItemSet 318210
[+]
 Sylph.Darkei
Offline
Server: Sylph
Game: FFXI
user: Darkei
Posts: 166
By Sylph.Darkei 2011-05-13 19:22:49
Link | Quote | Reply
 
No Ochain? GIMP!!

seriously: Is a good guide but only for veteran people, no very helpfull for new paladins or who are thinking on level the job, you are talking about many "end game" gear.
[+]
 Fenrir.Nightfyre
Offline
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
user: Nightfyre
Posts: 11680
By Fenrir.Nightfyre 2011-05-13 19:29:46
Link | Quote | Reply
 
The enmity information is absolutely vital to new PLDs (to everyone, really), and some of the other information (shield skill and block rate, gearsets) have some application at all levels as well.
 Shiva.Aaralyn
Offline
Server: Shiva
Game: FFXI
user: Aaralyn
Posts: 212
By Shiva.Aaralyn 2011-05-13 19:30:15
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Sylph.Darkei said:
No Ochain? GIMP!!

seriously: Is a good guide but only for veteran people, no very helpfull for new paladins or who are thinking on level the job, you are talking about many "end game" gear.

I think that might be the point.
[+]
 Phoenix.Neosutra
Offline
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
user: neosutra
Posts: 620
By Phoenix.Neosutra 2011-05-13 20:17:36
Link | Quote | Reply
 
As I stressed in the OP, new Plds shouldn't be looking at my sets and going "oh I don't have that, this isn't relevant to me".

Instead try and identify what the set is used for (in the description, and in the spellcast file), and determine what you can swap out that you have to reach the same intent.

I was planning to add a "Gear sets for beginners, intermediate, and advanced". A kinda guide to show what an AH pld should strive for, and then build upwwards. But I really think people should just learn the information and make the decisions themselves.
[+]
 Cerberus.Vaness
Offline
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1515
By Cerberus.Vaness 2011-05-13 20:30:55
Link | Quote | Reply
 
I found your xml file a nightmare to understand.Tho I do have a question.I use windower macro for pld because i found it easier to swap between PDT/Shield?appropriate TP set but I always wondered if it was possible for spellcast to switch into MDT gear when a foe cast magic?
 Phoenix.Neosutra
Offline
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
user: neosutra
Posts: 620
By Phoenix.Neosutra 2011-05-13 20:34:28
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Cerberus.Vaness said:
I found your xml file a nightmare to understand.Tho I do have a question.I use windower macro for pld because i found it easier to swap between PDT/Shield?appropriate TP set but I always wondered if it was possible for spellcast to switch into MDT gear when a foe cast magic?

It's a very robust file, so it does take a bit of SC knowledge to read. I did however go to the trouble of commenting each section and the purpose for each action.

As for spellcast: Yes it can (with autoexec), however I don't like that option as there are times I don't want to swap out of a specific set. I like having control over when I swap between my groups.
 Cerberus.Vaness
Offline
Server: Cerberus
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1515
By Cerberus.Vaness 2011-05-13 20:36:43
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Phoenix.Neosutra said:
Cerberus.Vaness said:
I found your xml file a nightmare to understand.Tho I do have a question.I use windower macro for pld because i found it easier to swap between PDT/Shield?appropriate TP set but I always wondered if it was possible for spellcast to switch into MDT gear when a foe cast magic?

It's a very robust file, so it does take a bit of SC knowledge to read. I did however go to the trouble of commenting each section and the purpose for each action.

As for spellcast: Yes it can (with autoexec), however I don't like that option as there are times I don't want to swap out of a specific set. I like having control over when I swap between my groups.
I can pretty much say I am experienced with spellcast.I think I am just confused caus it looks like a wall of text to me.However I am a pretty new pld but I love the job and I am interested into learning.This thread is very welcomed and bookmarked ^-^
[+]
 Phoenix.Neosutra
Offline
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
user: neosutra
Posts: 620
By Phoenix.Neosutra 2011-05-14 11:53:26
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Made a small change to the spellcast file:

In the idle/TP swaps after cast, I changed:

equip to -> action type="equip" .

This was an error from an old script I had.

As for this thread, I'll continue to update it as I finish testing.

If people would like to continue to add information they think should be included, information they would like to know, and/or critiques on item sets or the scripts, I would greatly appreciate it.
 Ragnarok.Martel
Offline
Server: Ragnarok
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2160
By Ragnarok.Martel 2011-05-14 14:47:21
Link | Quote | Reply
 
About your XMl. Your refresh var in the variables section is "Refresh", but your rule for it is <if Advanced='"$Refreshe" = "1"'>. That wouldn't work would it?

Well, unless you have a macro to set the var that's also Refreshe, but then the var listed at the top doesn't really do anything.

Also, in this: <action type="equip" when="start" set="rampart" />. Is "start" a precast equivalent? or does it have a different use? I've never seen it used before.
 Phoenix.Neosutra
Offline
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
user: neosutra
Posts: 620
By Phoenix.Neosutra 2011-05-14 16:00:08
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Good call on the refresh variable, I just added that a few days ago, so just a mistype. As for the "start", I assume it works the same as precast, as it's worked so far for me.
 Phoenix.Neosutra
Offline
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
user: neosutra
Posts: 620
By Phoenix.Neosutra 2011-05-16 09:57:03
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Finished 90 Burtgang yesterday, so have time to finalize the shield block tests for Aegis and reprisal effects. Should have that data posted in the next few days. The more general "nailing down the effects of shield skill on block rate" question will take a bit longer.
 Phoenix.Neosutra
Offline
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
user: neosutra
Posts: 620
By Phoenix.Neosutra 2011-05-21 00:48:39
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Finished lvl90 Aegis shield tests on Hydra. My parsing script is at work, so I won't be able to post the official results until Monday however.

Eyeballing the numbers I'd say the the damage reduction was 70-80%, wearing AF3+2 gloves. I'll get a more accurate % damage reduction and block rate on Monday.
 Ifrit.Showmo
Offline
Server: Ifrit
Game: FFXI
user: showmo456
Posts: 169
By Ifrit.Showmo 2011-05-21 02:56:11
Link | Quote | Reply
 
I was finally able to complete the final Aegis upgrade to 90 and was curious if what I've heard about Aegis getting a +10% block rate boost (from 65% to 75%) was true, so I did a parse on level 38~ mobs the other day to see if I could find the maximum block rate cap and these were the results:

Note: All tests were done in the same setup with no equipment or defensive buffs other than Aegis.

Facing Mob (Shield Blocks):
Back Turned (No Shield Blocks):
To differentiate between blocked and unblocked hits.
Summary
From a 11,116 hit sample size, the level 90 Aegis parsed at a 75% block rate (on mobs in which shield block rate should be capped), so it does appear that it did indeed get a +10% block rate increase from the level 75 version (assuming the level 75 Aegis is actually a 65% block rate as claimed).

I hope this info/parse helps out a bit. I was unable to test the damage reduction due to obvious reasons (mob level/damage too low when blocked).

For anyone who is interested in the actual parse file/log, I've uploaded them both to Mediafire: Aegis(90) Block Rate Parse.

The parse was done with KParser, so you'll probably need that specific parser program to be able to open and read them properly.
 Phoenix.Neosutra
Offline
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
user: neosutra
Posts: 620
By Phoenix.Neosutra 2011-05-21 12:30:38
Link | Quote | Reply
 
What did you use to determine blocked and unblocked hits?
 Phoenix.Neosutra
Offline
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
user: neosutra
Posts: 620
By Phoenix.Neosutra 2011-05-21 12:59:54
Link | Quote | Reply
 
The reason I question it is:

Testing against Hydra (lvl 80 mob) with capped shield gear and merits, I parsed:

68.7% block rate (within 3% confidence). This is using a mob where there is no crossover between blocked and unblocked hits. 351 unblocked, 1122 blocked for the first sample size, which lined up with the second and third samples I took as well (within 3%).

I could see the capped block rate still being 65% with this data, perhaps 70%, but I cant see it being 75%. Another possibility is that Aegis's block rate wasn't capped for Hydra, which I find a little hard to believe.

Additionally: A slightly more accurate estimate on damage reduction puts it at 79% (within 3% accuracy).

Adding in 2.5% from hands and shield def bonus trait, would put Aegis's Shield Blocked Damage reduction at 75%, 80% total after af3+2 hands and shield def bonus trait.

I'll have more accurate numbers on Monday. However using this information:

65% block rate @ 80% damage reduction = 52% physical damage reduction at capped block rate. About 13% less PDT than Ochain when both are capped on shield block rate.

The next step is determining the minimum block rate for each (since you're likely to use pld when fighting things you're not closed to cap on). For example, if Aegis has a minimum block rate of 40%, it's total PDT would be .4*.8 = 32%. While Ochain's 90% block rate minimum (guessing) would provide .9*.65 = 58.5%. So the gap between Ochain and Aegis increases (as far as PDT goes) as your enemy level increases. Ochain also still provides of the biggest advantages: Near 100% spell interupt via shield block. Even if Aegis was close to Ochain in damage reduction, Aegis Plds have a lot harder time tanking fast hitting mobs and large crowds by themselves, due to being unable to get spells off.

Still to nail down: Shield skill effect on block rate, and the exact equation for shield block rate, level, shield skill.
 Ifrit.Showmo
Offline
Server: Ifrit
Game: FFXI
user: showmo456
Posts: 169
By Ifrit.Showmo 2011-05-21 13:10:42
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Phoenix.Neosutra said:
What did you use to determine blocked and unblocked hits?
I ran two parses: the shield block parse and a parse where my back was turned towards all mobs so there would be no blocks. I compared each mob separately (Mandragora and Lizard) between both blocked/back turned parse to find the major damage reduction spike in the parse, which would end up being the shield blocks.

Here's an example from the Mandragora parse:

From the Back Turned (No Shield Blocks) parse, you can see their normal hits ranged from 3 to 11 damage per hit.

Now, when you look at the Facing Mob (Shield Blocks) parse, you can see that they still hit for 3 to 11 damage, but now there's a 0 damage hit value which had occurred 5,811 times. These are the shield blocks.

Then just repeat the same step for critical hits: from both parses, you can see that their critical hits ranged from 13 to 23 damage. Then in the Facing Mob (Shield Blocks) parse, there is a 0 damage value, which occurs 322 times. These are the shield blocks.

With this information, we can start doing the basic math to find the numbers:
Total hits that occurred from Mandragora under Facing Mob parse (blocked or unblocked): 8,184
Times shield blocks occurred (5,811 from normal hits + 322 from critical hits): 6,133
Times unblocked (Total hits - Shield Blocks; 8,184 - 6,133): 2,051
Block Rate (Shield Blocks / Total Hits; 6,133 / 8,184): 74.93%

Just repeat the steps for White Lizard and I added them together for the final result (since block rate should be at the same cap for both mobs, and no equipment/no buffs other than Aegis remained the same for all tests, including while back was turned). Without adding them together though, you can see that they both sit around the 75% block rate range (Mandragora at about 75%, Lizard at around 77%). Adding them together averages it to about 75%.

I apologize for the lengthy post; I felt I should give a in-depth explanation in attempt to avoid any confusion on how I got the numbers, although at the same time I hope I didn't add any extra confusion for the long post. =P
 Phoenix.Neosutra
Offline
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
user: neosutra
Posts: 620
By Phoenix.Neosutra 2011-05-21 14:32:00
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Your variance in your hits makes it too hard to decipher overlap between blocks and unblocks. That's the problem with testing on such low level mobs =/.
 Lakshmi.Kwontess
Offline
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
user: Kwontess
Posts: 16
By Lakshmi.Kwontess 2011-05-21 15:31:31
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Showmo's numbers should at least give a lower bound on the number of blocks in the mandragora case. He only get's 0's when facing the mob which means that 0's must be shield blocks. Therefore he had at least a 74% block rate on the mandies.
 Ifrit.Darkanaseur
Offline
Server: Ifrit
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2328
By Ifrit.Darkanaseur 2011-05-21 16:36:01
Link | Quote | Reply
 
I could perform the same test with 75 shield to see if my numbers vary at all if that helps.
 Phoenix.Neosutra
Offline
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
user: neosutra
Posts: 620
By Phoenix.Neosutra 2011-05-21 20:14:16
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Lakshmi.Kwontess said:
Showmo's numbers should at least give a lower bound on the number of blocks in the mandragora case. He only get's 0's when facing the mob which means that 0's must be shield blocks. Therefore he had at least a 74% block rate on the mandies.

I'm not seeing where you're pulling those numbers from.
 Lakshmi.Kwontess
Offline
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
user: Kwontess
Posts: 16
By Lakshmi.Kwontess 2011-05-21 21:23:03
Link | Quote | Reply
 
From his original post

Mandragoras facing the mob:

Melee
+^ 0: 5811
3: 315
4: 233
5: 227
6: 229
7: 228
8: 212
9: 210
10: 203
11: 89
Melee Crits
+^ 0: 322
13: 17
14: 27
15: 10
16: 5
17: 9
18: 14
19: 7
20: 2
21: 8
22: 2
23: 4

There are 8184 hits and there are 6133 hits for 0.

From later in his post he has numbers from his back turned on Mandragoras:

Melee
+ 3: 220
4: 135
5: 145
^ 6: 131
7: 141
8: 148
9: 149
10: 122
11: 56
Melee Crits
13: 14
+ 14: 16
^ 15: 8
16: 1
17: 3
18: 5
19: 6
20: 2
21: 4
22: 7
23: 3

He never once gets hit for 0 with his back turned. In fact 3 is the lower bound for non-crits and 13 is the lower bound for crits. The only explanation is that the 0's in the original sample come from shield blocks. That means that there were at least 6133 blocks out of 8184 attacks which is 74.9%. It might be possible that some of those 3's are also blocks, however, that would mean his block rate was even higher.

It is possible I'm misunderstanding the numbers, but that's how I'm reading them.
 Phoenix.Neosutra
Offline
Server: Phoenix
Game: FFXI
user: neosutra
Posts: 620
By Phoenix.Neosutra 2011-05-22 01:23:38
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Well this would either mean:

1. There is an error in one of our data sets.

2. The variance in my data set put me on the low end of the block rate (rare, but I guess it's possible).

3. I wasn't capped on block rate for Hydra.. A lvl 80 enemy, with capped shield skill, merits, and 30 shield skill in gear.. Which I would find hard to believe.

I'll take a look at the data more later, but I'm not ready to back 75% max block rate yet.
Offline
Posts: 3572
By Blazed1979 2011-05-30 13:52:20
Link | Quote | Reply
 
I wonder if enemy size has anything to do with it. (60 degrees block scope)
A long shot in the dark, but maybe try a parse against a smaller Lv.80 enemy and compare the two.

Ochain didn't block as frequently as it usually does on Vrtra the other day. Was closer to 75-80% block rate with some pretty nasty crits landing and taking a rather big chunk of PLD's HP. Does getting intimidated effect your ability to block?
 Lakshmi.Kwontess
Offline
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
user: Kwontess
Posts: 16
By Lakshmi.Kwontess 2011-05-30 17:26:57
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Terror prevents you from blocking. So does being stunned or petrified (the last two don't relate to Vrtra, but still annoying).

I don't know if it has to do with monster size. I would think your block angle is the same for every hit unless you're kiting. If you're at the appropriate angle for one swing you should be for the next. If you're kiting then you're not going to block at all.
Offline
Posts: 3572
By Blazed1979 2011-05-30 18:01:35
Link | Quote | Reply
 
thanks. I'm aware of terror/stun/petrify and kiting.
Standing, blood tanking and facing the mob.

What I'm getting at is the following;
If there is a pivotal point of an object (mob) from which 0 degrees and origin is set, it could be effected by the size of the mob. Maybe standing too close or too far is pushing you under/over.

Other area where typical laws of distance seem to bend due to size:

1. Being able to cast on glavoid/ulhuadshi and other HUGE mobs from distances as great as 27.
2. Being able to melee/attack/strike same said mobs, as well as Briareuse. I have a field day soloing briereuse as NIN. Its funny because while I am always out of reach from his melee attacks and grand slams/mercurial strikes, I have no problem striking him from the same distance. It might even be considered unintended manipulation of game mechanics because Briareus will not do a single TP move the entire fight.
 Bahamut.Serj
Offline
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
user: Serj
Posts: 6176
By Bahamut.Serj 2011-05-30 18:08:41
Link | Quote | Reply
 
Blazed1979 said:
thanks. I'm aware of terror/stun/petrify and kiting.
Standing, blood tanking and facing the mob.

What I'm getting at is the following;
If there is a pivotal point of an object (mob) from which 0 degrees and origin is set, it could be effected by the size of the mob. Maybe standing too close or too far is pushing you under/over.

Other area where typical laws of distance seem to bend due to size:

1. Being able to cast on glavoid/ulhuadshi and other HUGE mobs from distances as great as 27.
2. Being able to melee/attack/strike same said mobs, as well as Briareuse. I have a field day soloing briereuse as NIN. Its funny because while I am always out of reach from his melee attacks and grand slams/mercurial strikes, I have no problem striking him from the same distance. It might even be considered unintended manipulation of game mechanics because Briareus will not do a single TP move the entire fight.

That works? Not like he's hard anyway, but still am curious.
Offline
Posts: 3572
By Blazed1979 2011-05-30 18:20:22
Link | Quote | Reply
 
yeah. Been spamming briareus for an almace. Got tired of waiting for help so just winged it. Works like a charm. friend said I should make a video. Idk what it looks like to others, but from my standpoint as video will show, its fun as hell.
Lock-on/lock-off run
 Lakshmi.Kwontess
Offline
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
user: Kwontess
Posts: 16
By Lakshmi.Kwontess 2011-05-30 18:58:22
Link | Quote | Reply
 
That's interesting, I've never tried that with Briareus. I can say that I have never seen myself not block Briareus or Glavoid. There might have been one that slipped by in the last handful of fights, but I watch pretty closely.

The only nm that has noticably gone unblocked is Dragua. Some of hits are from me being petrified so it's hard to get an actual rate. I would say it's 85-90% block rate (0 +shield skill, but capped merits). Although I don't consider him a larger mob than any of the previously mentioned, just higher level.

I can't think of any other wyrms I've tanked since I got ochain. Maybe it's a wyrm thing and not a size thing specifically?
First Page 2 ... 44 45 46
Log in to post.