An Idea For PLD And Provoke

Ok, been kicking this idea around in my little head for a bit concerning PLD and its ability to voke, flash and sentinel, then lose hate to THF's auto-attack after a small amount of time when I thought up this:
PLD getting Provoke naturally, but Provoke also getting changed a bit. In addition to the enmity spike, it clears the hate list of the next top three people (the highest DDs and most likely the BLM).

The downside I see to this back up tanks finding themselves off the hate list when the main tank uses this, so contingency would be that Provoke II does that instead, Provoke I gains an additional Enmity +50 boost or some such.

Ideas? I plan on sending this upline like I do all my suggestions to get ignored.

PLD's ability to hold hate isn't the major problem with PLD right now though.

The issue is you can just stick a DD in the tank role and just forget taking a PLD altogether.

It's kinda like having a corvette and a fork lift.. Both will get you to where your going but if you don't need to carry something with you or its just something really small just take the vet and get there in a few seconds and be done rather then take the slow fork lift....there's is just no figural load in the game right now that needs a pld to carry it that almost any other melee job can't handle while dealing much more dmg and blink tanking so mages don't have to spam cure..

Agreed. Almace and af3 make pld a considerably more valuable part of a party but why invite a pld when you can dps more with mnk and tank the same things.
Pld would need a way to be more valuable to a party than just "tanking" anymore. A way to buff the party somehow (monster lets down its guard while pld is tanking lowering vit/def or some crap), a DPS bump might help (maybe like dual wield for 1 hand with shield), or and increase in the reprisal concept.

Without this turning into another "how we fix pld QQ thread" where everyone goes "Zomg gives them 300 job specific haste and moves that remove all hate from someone else", the short answer is that: holding hate is less of a problem than being useful to the party otherwise.

Bolded the correct answer, as I see it.

PLD needs support to tank and deal a bit of damage. DDs, with that same support, can tank and deal significantly more damage than a PLD.

If a WAR isn't available, PLD can fill in due to access to a fair number of red!! triggers, but that's about it.

EDIT: And even with Almace, PLD still struggles to meaningfully hold hate against DDs (at least, that's what I've seen).

Funny how things change over time. Year and years ago when Sky was the dominate event and before the RNG nerf and NIN 'nerf' (i.e.- AoE goes through shadows and shadows cause you to lose enimity, hence the 'nerf'), NIN was king. RNG was the best DD in the game hands down. PLD just sat on the side hoping to tank and had to bring a Light Staff to help the mages cure the NINs. Post 'nerf'? PLD got a ton of upgrades that made them Invincible every 5 minutes. The ability to wear DD gear to hold hate better, etc etc. PLD (before abyssea) was the tank. Did anyone complain about voke then? Nope. Heck PLD could hold hate without it.

Now? MNK is tank. Why? They do the job best. Did MNK complain in the past that it needed a second level of Boost to help hold hate when Counter-tanking? Nope. Did RNG complain that they went from DD king to one of the worst DD's til PUP? Yes. But what did RNGs do once they learned SE didn't care that much about one job not working how it used to? They leveled DRK. And when DRK sucked in comparison to SAM, they leveled SAM.

So what's the moral of the story here? FFXI is situational. My LS still takes PLD to Einherjar and Dynamis as the person to decide what to attack and for HFists. PLD just doesn't work in Abyssea and it may feel like PLD is useless all around because right now 90% of the playtime is spent in Abyssea. Really, there is more than 1 job that does the same thing on top of other stuff. MNK is king of the tank currently due to Giant HP pools and Counter+ atma's. That's just how it is right now. PLD still has it's place but it's not Abyssea 99% of the time.

Why complain about needing more abilities when SE will make them suck and you'll be begging for more in the update to come after. Summoner's always want a new avatar. BLM's want more spells. Melee's want better gear. We're human, all we want is more. Who cares what I got yesterday right? It's yesterday and old.

True in so many ways~

"Why do I keep hitting my hand with this hammer? Because it feels good when I stop"-ish!!

I will guarantee that the majority of people moaning about PLD now are those who stubbornly refuse to change, I love PLD, always have but right now it's on the side-lines, how am I coping? I'm leveling WAR and will follow that with BLM probably (yellow proc job).

Because I don't just have PLD as a useless job at the moment, I also have RDM and SAM as my only other jobs, peace.

So much this..

And what's up with the "PLD NEED PROVOKE!" spammage, wouldnt help them at all :P

Only way to make pld usefull in abyysea is to change the hate caps on all jobs, make pld highest, mages 2nd and meele 3rd. This way with no pld in in the pty mages will always get hate and eventually die. Not saying its the greatest idea, just for ppl who like to use pld or only have pld for abyssea.

Or if the PLD goes down, DDs wouldn't be able to rip hate off the mages.

If there's a solution out there, it's to make PLD a good DD but then we'd be getting into the grey area of whether PLD would then just be overpowered.

Sadly, the solution is to get almace.
And then, the problem is to have your group/ls let you come on PLD.
PLD does get alot of red !! procs, so I wish you luck :P

What the hell people you can play the game now..thought these threads would go away once they game came back online.

Tisk tisk tisk.

IMO the only real fix to tanking would be to adjust the enmity values of damage/jas/heals etc altogether + have a higher overall cap across the board. PLD could probably tank well if stuff like voke and flash gave much higher hate than they do now, while melee/magic damage gives less.

Although that might make PLD tanks more common, which probably wouldn't go over well with the armies of bandwagon Kannagi NINs and Verethragna MNKs.

The whole reason NIN and MNK are amazing now, is that they double up as red !! *** and blue !! blunt ***, at the same time they'r amazing tanks and dds inside abyssea.
Makes lowmanning a whole lot easier.
If you have a PLD tank, that's one extra person JUST for that role

Again holding hate isn't the issue.

It's not about provoke or really emn caps..its imo about survability. A niche that pld fit into better before Abyssea. With how much -pdt/mdt gear are out now..basically any DD can survive with a whm just as good and kill twice as fast.

if 1 job takes 30 min to kill and the other takes 5 which are you going to bring?

^ is why pld is broken in my opinion and has nothing to do with provoke or hate caps.

Make new content HNMs really beefy in defense and give pld another type of atonement ability where it doesnt have to rely on its offensive stats(as much, as acc/att/haste did help produce more ws frequency)as much as other DD jobs do to put out enough damage to warrant a spot in the party.

The mobs are obviously going to have to hit hard enough and have dangerous tp moves/spells that you would want to have a pld come for safety. More importantly chances are it would probably only target Ochain plds as lower shields would mitigate as much damage as full pdt/mdt DD sets.

If SE implemented atleast 5 of these mobs that would require a pld(after its adjusted a tad, w/o breaking it) it would make a few plds feel a bit more happier im sure.

Well just have to wait to see what SE has in store for pld and the other jobs. I cant really blame SE on how they change jobs around, it doesnt really matter what they do, the community will always find a way to play they game how they see fit.

So much this, bolded for the really true part. People will play the jobs that get the job done the fastest and most efficient across the boards.

Dug around for this in the 'Pic that make you LOL' topic. I think it has some relevence, no?