September Version Update

Please no. Ugh Christ.

That's the last thing we need. DDs have already been almost entirely invalidated and BST pets were already tanking too much.

The last thing we need is *** puppetmaster taking over tanking.

I think it's appropriate. All the yelling about bots for years in the HNM scene/abyssea/everywhere, it'd only be fitting that the final version of XI is actual robots running around as the main tank.

Which is pretty amusing, as it was never before, and possibly still isn't, the strongest job at solo.

Apururu's lot for the Tartaru mail: 842 points
Warlike Patrick's lot for the Eschalixir +2: 912 points

Did I fix it ? :)

I'm not advocating for that, though it would be ironic if PUP finally became a valuable job and a "third tank" option. It's not like XI couldn't use another tank, and automatons have greater DT than players (but worse healing tools and hate tools).

No, the priority for S-E should be fixing warrior and dark knight (dragoon to a lesser extent). I firmly believe that. There's no reason why these jobs shouldn't pump out great damage again and regain the spotlight.

November version update :

Warriors and Dark knights will get the new job ability : Call beast.


omg, fixed it again ! :)

Savael pls double check ur sources before posting as -70 pdt is kinda unreachable. I could be wrong. But i think with double astolfo you can reach -68pdt but then pets LOSES ilevel which makes -68pdt pointless. The max might be -62pdt but then every single piece of augment has to be max such as mantle the 5 body pieces as well as 1 ax and you will need 1 astolfo in additional to the other easier to get pieces. And in reality who can afford that? Who's sane enough to throw so much money and stones to get that 1 extra dt or pdt in a gear where they just 1 away.

I understand your strong opinion regarding overpowered beastmaster. I will not reply to your opinions on it but if something you said "might" be wrong I will question it as it's spreading false info regarding bstmaster.

And to stay on topic, the beastmaster nerf is only a slight inconveniences to us. I mean I don t care, but my white Mage better cure when we get hit. I mean I know I need to run away from certain tp moves or I can't watch tv while pressing a button. But things still get done. I don't know why they need to nerf this distance thing. I know they making us do more and work a little harder but Who don't want to make more money at work while doing less?

how feasible is bst now after the distance nerf? My drk and thf are still on skirmish and other older equip. Not that anyone ever seems to need them anyway. So i wasnt getting anything done. So i spent the last few weeks working on bst so i could get at least some things done on my own. Would sux to have it not being worth while half way through preping it.

Has anyone obtained the Gyve Doublet yet? We spammed Promathia a dozen times last night on Difficult and haven't seen it. Best guesstimations seems to be a 1% or 2% drop, but it might take a while to get solid information on it.

I'm wondering if VD will be the best bet in farming this.

I've done it a lot on normal, in the 3 man group i go official have the belt, and Trousers on all of us.

Ughhhh, that lowercase p on "Conserve MP"!

Am I the only one that doesn't have a problem with PUP's tank automaton (valoredge) being able to perform as a tank?
Does everyone else just hate the idea of a nonPLD tank??? (SO much hate around the game about RUN tanks... STILL)
Am I the only one who thinks they should "fix" Valoredge's flashbulb to do more than -acc??
My PUP is 50 cause I HATED the job. (all my jobs are either 50 or 99)
But just because I would never play it... I don't understand the hate for something being able to perform in a roll that it's supposed to be able to perform in. (eg: Valoredge tanking)

Y'all also act like that's not a thing that's been possible ever since the update where their HP shot up to BST pet level.

GFDI.
I can't unsee it now! DX

I have no enmity (heh) toward non-PLD tanks at this point.

I do have a problem with RUN essentially requiring Epeolatry to be effective.

And I have a problem with pet jobs becoming tanks when there is literally a glut of tanks out there who want to perform the job.*

*maybe that's just my own position/take on it. But I have NEVER been in a linkshell (or on a server) where everyone and his/her mother didn't want to be the tank. And most of them are awful at it.

I was never a fan of ninja tanking, but that was because there was a time it was better at it than paladin, and I felt that was pretty *** stupid given it was never intended as a tank in the first place, paladin was, yet they took forever to make paladin the best tank again.

I would like to think that Ninja is still a third tanking option >_>; PUP would be #4.

Yeah, we actually had a double Gyve Trouser drop in a single run. It certainly made 2 of my LS members happy.

We have used Rune tanks before depending on what we are doing. Rune can make a great tank in certain situations. We mostly do use pld tanks because our pld are pretty darn good (Burt, etc) but we let our rune play tank for certain things once in awhile. Gives pld and rune a change of job to play at events when we mix up which tanks we using.

I've mentioned this in the RUN thread, but I think I'm probably the only person in the entire game who is stuck going to everything as RUN.

Not all RUN's are created equal, but I learned a long time ago to be open-minded about tanking options. When geared and invested properly, they've proven to be highly capable tanks and damage dealers in a variety of end-game content such as Sinister Reign, Escha, HTBC's and so on.

My LS as a whole is not sold on the ability or usefulness of RUN as a tank, and given I'm the only one active and I don't have the patience to make Epeolatry, I doubt they ever will be. Which, again, I'm not lamenting too hard, as we've got good tanks already.

This little gal is who sold me on giving RUN's a chance. She's proven herself on the highest of NM tiers in Escha, and then some.

Bear in mind that Epeolatry is not required for RUN tanking. I got my first chance to tank on RUN doing Celestial Nexus on D as RUN/NIN wearing sparks armor and no DT gear. While Epeolatry opens up a lot of unique options, RUN's real power comes from Fast Cast (shadows and hate), resistance/MDB, and Battuta. If Amchuchu subbed NIN, BLU, or SAM, you'd be even more impressed.

Steering back on topic, I noticed most of Promathia's WSs were dark based, so Lux Wards worked great against him. Haven't tried Ultima/Omega yet, but I'm thinking I'll use Flabra on Ultima to avoid Chemical Bomb and that Petrify move. Does it use Citadel Buster or any of the other light-based attacks/spells?

As I said previously one of the better BST's has already mentioned they have a 71% DT set and we know what the pet DT cap is because atma's exist in Abyssea that enable people to test for it.

I don't have opinions, those are mathematical realities. This game is nothing but a bunch of dice rolls, there is very little "skill" involved outside of pumping up one person's dice rolls over another. Pets have a ridiculous amount of HP, and when combined with all those other facets of BST enable BST to be extremely overpowered and broken. SE fixed it a little by creating a situation where BST needs to be careful and attentive, they can no longer bulldoze stuff while watching a movie. They still have OP stats but at least they aren't invincible with OP stats.

It's funny to watch the BST's try to gaslight everyone into thinking they didn't just go around breaking everything. So I'll just leave what I said before.


http://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/47296/jobs-that-need-nerf/2/#2961419

My bad it's -71% PDT, not sure what the absolute MDT is but if he's using different sets for each then it should be about as high. BDT is the only hard one to get, and that's the same for everyone including melee's and tanks.

Yeah, but that's like saying paladins don't need Ochain/Aegis/Burtgang.

The doors it opens are just staggering.

Puppetmaster is my favorite job, so I have no problem with PUP pet tanking. The auto is certainly tough, tougher than any player- more health, and can hit capped PDT with high DT across the board. Other players have explored auto tanking but from what I've messed with it myself the autos lack good hate tools.


Epeolatry is fantastic but you can tank without it. That sword buys you 20% PDT over Aettir and 8 enmity (along with some offensive punch). That's not a make-or-break requirement.

Any idea where track pants come from?

PUP is already a very good tank, perfectly viable option along with PLD, RUN, and sometimes NIN. It's also well suited to lower need for separate support (a COR is nice, but unnecessary), and can mitigate some really nasty stuff like charm.

I and many others have already been using PUP to great success in stuff like SR and Escha NMs. It's nearly unkillable thanks the incredible PDT and Regen attachments, and powerful Repair ability. The ONLY flaw is that against very good DDs (like a pre-update very good BST's tiger pet... but not a mid-range bandwagon BST) it takes some work to hold hate. I use 2~3 Fire Maneuvers, both Strobes, and all available Enm+ gear on my tanking setup.

I'd also think you of all people, constantly talking about your COR, would kind of appreciate a job that loves having a COR around for highly useful pet buffs. (which to be fair are more used in BST, PUP, SMN setups that might get less use now... but it's not as if BST suddenly stopped being able to deal impressive pet damage due to the distance change)


Absoultely not. I've also done RUN tanking on SR to very good effect, and even a non-ergon RUN is straight up BETTER than an Aegis&Ochain&Burt PLD in many situations: especially when a mob is heavily dependent on a particular element attack or enfeeble, or if you're going with a nuke/SMN heavy party (since you can greatly lower the mob's elemental defenses with Gambit and Rayke, the RUN basically serves as both a tank and a very potent debuffer - something PLD can't do). I don't have Epeolatry, and it's still fine. Notable that RUN was MASSIVELY helped by the enmity updates earlier this year, and with a truly stellar Empyrean armor set (4/5 pieces are staples in a tanking build).

Another tanking note, this week gave a couple examples of new content where NIN (and maybe RUN) are better than PLD:
- UNM Cluster (for new Soboro): Self Destruct one-shotted our Aegis PLD, but it's absorbed by Migawari (and possibly Foil from RUN, I'd love to know - I do know Scherzo didn't work). We used a setup with two NINs tanking/meleeing, keeping Migawari up, and doing Hi > Hi darkness SC for a team of nukers to MB ice to great success.

- High tier fights: just like it always was, NIN is an stellar tank in Ultima/Omega fight. Between two players with PLD NIN RUN available, we preferred NIN x2 setup for Ultima Omega, and PLD + NIN setup on Dawn. (though I'm sure any combination would work, that's kind of the point that they're all viable, as would be PUP).

Yeah, I think saying Epeolatry is as necessary to RUN as Ochain and Aegis are to PLD is a misunderstanding of how RUN tanks. PLD is pretty much nothing without a good shield, where RUN is really relying on abilities more than anything else.

The issue with RUN is most aren't willing to learn and commit to memory what everything does and learn stuff anymore.
Which is tragic cause RUN is so good.
Why Learn new stuff when PLD has been the same for years? Thats some peoples attitude towards it.