September Version Update

Not only is RUN good but it's fun to play I think compared to paladin. It's a shame that more players don't give it a chance.

Savael I didn't realized you included traits in your 71% pdt. So yes 71 with traits is possible. My apologies. But ur 80 % pdt was obviously wrong. All I ask is don't throw out crazy numbers and then saying "oh my bad it's 71" or "I swore bstmaster has 5 stored ready charges"

refoccilation stone
Drops of Warder of Hope.

RUN tanks differently than PLD. This fact, and I think the psychological effect of seeing a huge *** GS instead of a shield, leads people go believe that RUN is a last resort tank option.

I don't like that, and am sort of vocal about it on my server, lol.

Just because we mitigate damage differently doesn't mean we don't do it right. I've been in parties that balked because I asked them to minorly alter the "accepted" strategy in order for me to do my best. That's ridiculous, to me.

If I've said it once, I'll say it a billion times:

Against a single enemy, a PLD and a RUN are equally good as a tank. No, we can't shield block crap, we Foil it. We parry. We let things suicide on Battuta, and we protect our party with a buff nobody else can use.

So sick of the rune fencer hate, I feel like a broken record.

I am right there with you!
It's ***. And I can't STAND the stupid that is GS=DD-only stupid people seem to have stuck in their head...
So many terribad RUNs see the GS and gear for DD...
Which of course means you suck as a tank because no DT = death.

I would also add the caveat that multiple elements of damage hurts RUN. Not to the point of unusability, but after 2 elements... RUN starts to be come less effective than Aegis PLD the more elements added. (And I mean 3 elements at the same time. Not changing phases, changes elements. Generally though a NM sticks to either 1~2 elements or uses the whole swath of 6~8.)
But that's just comparative! It's not like RUN can't tank those things with all elements, it's just less effective than Aegis. (basically Aegis can be "lazy" because -87.5% MDT, whereas RUN has to deal with only 50% and rely more on Meva and MDB rather than single-element-MDT-JA-Aegis from Valliance/Vallation... gotta make those runes count!)
But they don't have to be to be 100% equal. (and hell, Batutta might as well be 3min Invincible on a 5min timer!)

They just have to be able to mitigate the damage and hold hate.
Of which, RUN has no issue with.
Functionally equal.

Which is why I just can't comprehend people hating on Valoredge tanking...
RUN and PLD will most likely mitigate damage and hold hate better.
On a strictly better basis too at that. (which is why flashbulb should be changed to generate enmity)
But if Valoredge CAN stand on relatively equal footing and tank... I see no problem.
PLD classic/turtle tanks.
RUN fancy classic/turtle tanks.
NIN blink tanks.
Valoredge can "blood" tank. (they can get stupid high regen, have stupid high HP, and it's not like they can't get DT either!)

Is it just that people are butthurt that it's no longer MNKs who can blood tank?

If I can find a PUP who's confident enough in their ability to let their robot tank stuff, then by God I see no problem with it.

...I don't even want to think about all the runes I have seen that really, really need to reevaluate how they are playing the job. Yes, you can be a DD. You are not going to be an effective tank if you are in your DD set. You wear light armor, therefore you don't get good defense.

And if you are trying to DD in a tank set you are also doing it wrong. The nice thing about being the tank is that you don't necessarily have to hit whatever it is you're tanking. RUN gets tactical parry, which gives TP, PLD gets Shield Mastery for the same thing.

All you gotta do is hold the damn thing, and not die. Hitting it with your sword is not strictly needed, but luckily RUN gets accuracy from a JA and some decent acc on armor.

People who say that RUN doesn't get adequate hate tools make me want to hit them with an Aettir till they listen.

I haven't had much chance to play RUN on anything big recently.

Maybe I'm overestimating the physical damage it takes.

Either way, at this stage, not looking to step on people's toes trying to pry tanking duty away from people who love doing it.

My one and only issue with RUN would be the physical damage it takes in comparison to a paladin with a shield. But again. I've not touched new content.

As for this:


My desire to buff another player's NPC and sub a mage job or otherwise be useless/play at a mule level is naught.

No your just trying to nit pick and sharp shoot my argument because you can't make a valid one of your own. It's now become about attacking the messenger vs attacking the message. BST was / still is broke as ***. It's been slightly hindered and actually requires some modicum of skill now, it's still very exploitable. We can wait and see how SE progress's things as I do feel a round of buffs are in the not to distant future and BST is simply getting their Christmas sooner then the rest.

The DT cap for pets was determined a long time ago after SE nerfed it from 100%. Something near 87.5%. Regular non-tank players can't reach that high because of the artificial 50% cap, which is only side stepped by a few pieces of "DT/PDT/MDT II" gear, most notably Aegis, Burtang and Epolitry.

RUN requires a really different mindset then PLD for tanking. RUN tanks with layers. And by that I mean RUN's defensive buffs are layered upon each other and tailored to the specific fight at hand. Enhanced Protect / Shell (I prefer protect personally), runes, barspell, valliance / vallation, OFA, Pflug, Battuta, Cocoon, Utsusmi, Phalanx, Aquaveil, Foil and so forth. RUN gets such high MDB that even in multi-element fights they still get barely scratched by magic. Physical damage can be mitigated with cocoon, battutta, foil or blinks.

No single buff / ability makes RUN into great tanks, but rather the successful combination of a whole swath of abilities. The only real weakness is sudden complete dispell's, the type that strip all buffs and hate, which leaves the RUN forced to focus on enmity generation instead of reapplying their shields.

Real RUNs use Embolden Temper!

I've tanked everything in the game prior to the last update on PUP. By using an incredibly dangerous strategy, I'm able to hold hate on my Automaton against the hoard of Mythic BSTs we have, while they have a geomancer and corsair rolls furthering their destructive might.

It's quite difficult and dangerous, but I absolutely love it.

Like Fenrir, for instance... that full dispel sucks like a cheap hooker and makes me rely on outside buffs from trust or a whm instead of my own (proshell, bar-whatever) because I have to focus more on enmity than on other stuff, especially if my DDs decide that blowing up the world with double dark/light SC is the right move.


RUN is constantly doing something in combat. Usually that's casting a spell of some sort.

Ramyrez-

RUNs physical damage mitigation can get just as high as a paladin's, barring Burt and Epeolatry. The difference is actual physical defense numbers, which vary widely because RUN uses light armor, while paladin gets heavy. The RUN, usually /nin, can spam shadows to mitigate damage that way, but if we get hit, it usually hurts (up yours Morimar).

If you have friends who want to tank, by god let them. Doing it all the time sucks, though, so it's nice to have other options open if they want to DD.

Re: COR mule role.

Yuck, I hate spamming pet rolls and erase, this is not corsair, this is a trust role that happens to be ran by a real person.

That is awesome, and I am not being sarcastic in the least.

Yeah. Sorry.

I've always been main samurai and corsair (SAM since the start and COR since it released.)

And I've dealt with a lot of bad experiences with some really bad -- or in some cases great, but douchey -- BLUs and PUPs.

And combine all of that and it's really sort of coloring (in a very upsetting way) my perception of where the game is going as it winds down in.

Prolly not needed, but winds from gods can be stolen w/ THF.

In the whole /nin vs /blu when it comes to physical damage, I find that if the NM frequently removes shadows, that it's better to just rely on aquaveil + cocoon. RUN can get 1400~1600 defense, as long as the NM doesn't have a defense down ailment. So while you get hit more often, you take less damage and won't get blasted from a badly timed wipe + crit TP move.

But yeah, once a RUN has all their shields up they become pretty much invincible. The cool thing is that you can push a button and start dealing decent damage, provided the situations clear to do so. On many fights when we check the parse I've been surprised to see how well I did. RUN's not a DD but it's still capable of knocking a good amount of the target HP off, not to mention timed Rayke / Gambit silliness.

IF you are with people who know what you mean when you say "Rayke/Gambit on!"

That, too, makes me want to hit people with the Aettir.

I'm a COR too, and just because you use some pet buffs doesn't mean you have to play like a mule or /mage.

I've gone COR to ~80% of the Sinister Reign I do. A lot of those have been with pet jobs. I come /RNG, start out with two pet rolls, then move away and toss Hunter's/something on myself and shoot away. We win quickly and I even get to do good damage, so no issue there. I've also heard that runs when some of my usual partners take a different COR go way slower, so I take some pride in that :)

I've never understood the "I don't want to buff you if it takes away from my DD" CORs. If you just care about your own damage numbers, come on a pure DD job. I *love* making my party a destructive force by giving them strong buffs... When you're the buff job, the entire party's extra DOT is because of YOU. Even if you personally *gasp* drop a few % in the parse...

I don't mind buffing my party, pretty much for the reasons you described.

I do mind party leaders who insist that I stand back and not shoot. I'll generally put on whatever they're asking for, then hit the whm with refresh and myself with Tact and use WF/LS, because my racc isn't the best on my COR.

That way, I'm still contributing.

Funny thing about that is COR is by far the absolute best SC closer currently in the game. Do Wizards + Tacticians with the GEO doing Malaise and Focus. The THF (you want them for TH anyway) opens with SA Rudra's, you close with a pumped up LS for 30~60K followed by an even bigger SC followed by a few nukers making big numbers. 30~40 seconds later you do it again, and keep doing it until the target falls down. Even get the GEO in on it by having them be the TA wall for the THF so you don't have to wait on SA timer.

The 60K I saw was from a mythic COR and I was on RDM doing buffing / debuffing and nuking on the SC.

Unfortunately COR doesn't a way to reliable close light so you need to use a RNG instead with TF. Thankfully most of the COR WS gear can also be equipped on RNG who has enough accuracy to actually hit for TP.

That was our strat before the BST rage took over and everyone just changed to BST, even if it was geared from random stuff already sitting in MH, and just smash everything.

drop rate of this H2H must be like 1-2% lol ive done none stop since update and only got helm and earring

Has anyone messed around with DRK since the changes to absorbs? Curious

The dude with the koala pic is so bitter with BST it's redonkeylous!

"even if it was geared from random stuff already sitting in MH, and just smash everything."

SMASH EVERYTHING!!!!

Lol I agreed.

He claims people can just put minimal effort on bst and do 15-25k razor fang. I already challenge him to go grab stuff off his mog house and ah and go do 15k razor fang but he didn't take my challenge. I just want to see a screenshot of him doing what he say he can do when I can't even do it.

That guy is so retared it should be banned from internet.

I really don't need you to explain COR101 to me, nor repeat back to me words I've said frequently to other people.

Bah. I don't have coffee in me yet and I'm grumpy as hell right now aside from that.

Look, when I gripe about jobs, play styles, etc. that I don't like/am irritated with, it's generally specific to my own circumstance, people I play with, and the way we need to do things for our group, which isn't always a universal experience.

I'm not trying to be a huge *** here, though admittedly I'm probably achieving that to some degree.

I just don't enjoy the current way things are constituted and I'm really pissy with SE for apparently feeling that they need to close out the game by completely upsetting the apple cart on the way things are done.

Have a LSmate who we let tank some stuff too. (Burtgis PLD wanted to play on BST and I wanted to SMN lol)
They basically were regen-ing at the same rate or for more than the NM was hitting them from their auto attacks.
Hate control wasn't perfect, but I think the only change needed would be to make the puppet's flash actually generate enmity instead of just applying the status of flash.
I was skeptical at first (though willing to give them a chance! Cautionary =/= negation!) but after watching it hold hate (basically with just provoke spam) and not die, I'm in full support of welcoming Valoredge to the tank table where aprops.

With the change to PUP's autos HP, it's a relatively decent tank option.
People need to get out of their safety bubbles and think some.

PREACH! QoL and job adjustments SHOULD be about making EVERY job a VIABLE option.

People #screaming for nerfs and are #bitter about xyz job need to /stare at the number of 'active' players on their server..... It isn't growing... <Hello>!

Just to be clear, I've never said to nerf anyone.

I've always been about bringing other jobs current, not nerfing stronger jobs.

My distaste for PUP tanking or BLU dominating are entirely separate issues.

Thing is you COULD put in ***-all effort on BST and still be better than someone who put in a lot more effort into another job for a vastly inferior result. BST needed it's nerf and I've been getting a few good laughs seeing bandwagon BST attempt the new BC's against Promathia and Omega only to get roflstomped into the floor because their FOO (First Order Optimal) strat is dead.