BLU In Delve

no

This is relative, obviously, because even the best BLU's aren't going to be doing as much damage as an equally geared and skilled heavy DD with the exception of specific weaknesses or exploits. I love BLU, it's easily my favorite job, but it just isn't as useful in most content as I want it to be, and no amount of love for the job is going to change that.

Self haste2 (ga), actually lets a bard toss in another att/w/e song instead of a march. B. typhoon (under utilized) drops def 10% (which can be extremely strong when paired with other def down debuffs. These alone make up lack of damage output between it and another heavy dd. Not to mention tons of other utility (and taking pressure off back line with stuns,sleepga,timely/self cure.

Blue, Sam x 2 > Sam x 3.

Blue adding 15% to 3 jobs > being behind by 20% dps

If you plan on arguing this point, just pretend I copied your thread and then wrote something about the failing education system (if feeling sarcastic) or something more derogatory (depending on the level of stupidity of said post). Either way I can't be actually bothered to read the post or give it any validity by actually responding.

As true as that may have been at some point, I feel it's not nearly as cut and dry with skillchains doing what they do these days

As well as several jobs being able to haste2 fulltime while still performing other party roles.

So basically VD battlefields? And by 'heavy DD' you mean versus SAM.

Very rarely does a situation arise where placing a well geared BLU is going to be a detriment to the success of the group. Maybe to a few seconds on the win clock but little else. The toolbox BLU brings to the table is typically a boon to a group that isn't awash in ultimate weapons rotating accounts to clear content.

I wouldn't say the same thing about an automaton getting clobbered, a pet unable to hit the target or a job that is so bound to JA timers. These jobs don't compare to BLU and have enough mechanical issues that yes, you're probably setting back the group bringing them.

Ccl is a Mythic SAM so he might be comparing Mythic SAM to Normal BLU which is meh, I won't argue 1 good SAM will crush 1 good BLU in DPS if you compare their damage 1 on 1, however BLU (much like DRG in ways although BLU crushes DRG in DPS wise from the few times I've parsed against lolDRG) plus the gear check for a BLU to even consider that level of competition against a half decent SAM is insane by comparison.

It boils down to does an extra 10% Defense down on your Target equate to the DPS difference between SAM and BLU?

Now just saying no is bulshit, run a spreadsheet for a MNK SAM BLU and applying 10% down effect on Target and then do MNK SAM SAM and see what the total combined DPS is.


FURTHER MORE no one said BLU was best DPS Ccl, do I need to quote ***again? It can and does deal alot of damage just because you've only ever seen ***BLU's don't tarnish us all that ***brush.

Define "Heavy DD".....according to spreadsheet BLU isn't that far behind equally geared MNK, it could be around the same as WAR and DRK(not 100% sure though, haven't check). If you add defense down spells it's certainly a viable DD unless only SAM is considered heavy DD in this game.

Only Sam

So now spreadsheet can be used to compare jobs?
Equally geared means you gave a sword to mnk? Or is the blu using a h2h?

I'm not sure why not......equally geared means delve2 weapon MNK v.s delve2 weapon BLU or something like that.

If you can't rely on spreadsheet for DPS comparsion, idk why this discussion even exist lol.

Ignoring Damage types BLU isn't far behind in Raw DPS.

A DD wielding a heavy weapon, duh!

MNK isn't a heavy DD then!

Congrats. You discovered this discussion shouldnt exist.

I like turtles

I didn't specifically mean SAM, but it's a good example. As for defense down spells, if you're doing bee for example, as it's been brought up a few times in this thread...

None of BLU's def down is as potent as angon or as reliable, BLU doesn't do as much damage as DRG on several of the mobs in the zone including the bee, you're already bringing a BRD and a WHM, maybe even a RDM or GEO, so having an extra madrigal or minuet half the time is a negligible increase as well. In that scenario, sure BLU can do a lot of things, but other jobs you already are taking do it as well or better, so why?

BLU can do a lot of things well, but it's not necessary to bring one to do those things because other jobs are already doing them or they just don't need to be done. If you're going to bring another DD, why not bring one that does more damage?

If you're looking at defense down spells, dragoon will beat blue mage handily. And if you're using mythic as the barrier to entry for using dragoon, I get Ryuno as being only ~10% behind Koga on the spreadsheet... which is way ahead of BLU. edit: maybe not way ahead. A bit ahead? I'm not the best with BLU sets.

Even in the best of situations, I get BLU barely knocking on the door of Ryu DRG, realistic situations, the gap is still less than the gap between mythic DRG and SAM. So, it's not a huge margin, but enough to beg the question.

If only they'd fix tourbillon. Blu would be unmatched for def down then. That said, bilgestorm + benthic/frightful roar is a higher average def down over time than angon. 10% up 24/7 + 25% up 20% of the time >= 25% up 15~50% of the time. DRG's primary advantage on bee is better access to piercing damage. Requiescat works but isn't as effective.

In my opinion, the real question is: Does Blu's added utility make up for the DPS loss from a Sam taking that slot, and to me, the answer is sometimes, generally depending on the Sam VS the Blu and your current supports' ability.

In a perfect world, everyone geared and playing optimally, there would never really be a reason to invite Blu over Sam to delve, but in this oh so flawed reality, I think Blu is the better choice some of the time, but I wouldn't be willing to try to guess a percentage.

There isn't much reason not to bring any dd to delve either unless you're doing enough runs at once that the small amount of saved time each run from bringing "optimal" dds gets you an extra run at the end of the day, cumulatively. That said, unless we're comparing mythic Sam to everyone else and assuming the other jobs don't have mythics or something for some reason, the difference will be more pronounced, but that goes for everyone. Sam beats everything. Mythic especially. But the difference between underdogs (mnk drk blu war etc) isn't as pronounced as most tend to spew out if you do it right.

Sam is the outlier.

Damage type variety to cover its weaknesses, recent blanket buffs affecting sam far more than anyone else, etc. all line up to make sam ridiculous. I don't think it was advertent, but it's still pretty stupid. Major dd jobs wouldn't be remarkably unbalanced if not for supersam.

I wish they would, did they ever respond to your bug report?

Every bug report i ever put up over the last 4 years or however long it's been have been ignored by the devs. People jumped on my bandwagon after i started including non blu spells and abilities (war sam etc) in, but no one really seems to care anymore.

I wouldn't compare angon with spell defense down personally, it has downtime and they're not the same.

"Heavy DD" originally referred to a the jobs that wore heavy armor, light DD was in reference to jobs on light armor. Originally SE put most of the offensive stats on the heavier armor with evasion and lessor offensive stats on light armor. Basically Haub vs SH type stuff. Then SE started mixing it all up.

Now the terms are used to reference a job that specializes / focuses on offense vs those that pack on utility. BlU can be either depending on spell load outs. It's not common but a BLU can strip out all utility and focus purely on offensive JT and offensive self buffs. Can get acc bonus 2, TA, store TP, CAB and 20% atk bonus with out a sub. WAR adds a further atk bonus, DA, and 25% atk bonus. Then you have a few spells like Sinker Drill which actually do worthwhile damage since SE allows that 45% atk buff to apply to them.

As a whole package BLU brings a lot to the table. And no its gear requirement is the exact same as SAM, DRK, MNK and so forth, as DD anyhow. The real problem is its complexity makes finding a good BLU extremely rare. Mostly you get retards who don't know how to gear themselves. In that situation them playing a job like MNK or SAM, where they can just copy another person's gear and smash the same three macros, is better. They are still going to suck but at least they won't get anyone else killed.

Angon is -25% DEF and it sticks, even if it has downtime. If and when they fix the macc on BLUs DEF down spells, it might change, but right now, Angon > spell def down. And I compare them not because they are actually in competition, but as a reason to take DRG over BLU just as an example.

Delve is easy enough to win with any job, therefore we can bring blu and win np, yes.

Now with all blu has to offer, are you guys bringing blu to Incursion 138+ and have much success with it?

sam sam(or ryu drg) geo sch brd whm and rdm+geo is what I aim for in Incursion, where do you guys put blu in there ?

It's not though. Angon's biggest benefits are:

A) Can't miss
B) Slightly easier to overcap with Angon

But as I said before, BLU's DEF down spells average out to the same or greater def down over time compared to angon. 10% isn't as big a number as 25%, but add in the fact that it's up the whole time as well as BLU's 25% DEF down that only has a 30s less duration than Angon (and 2 minute longer recast time if not factoring in Unbridled Wisdom) with the 10%, and you have a far more consistent def down than Angon.

The entire party will consistently be benefiting from the 25% when it's off cooldown and 10% DEF down when it isn't, and unless the target is resistant to wind frightful roar tends to be quite accurate.





Can replace the ryu DRG, just don't bring a bad BLU. Should be going for allout DD and applying AoE DEF downs. In case of emergency (GEO d/cs or something), can support stun.