BLU In Delve

Nothing special, standard DD setup except you replace a MNK with BLU.

So BLU SAM BRD WHM COR or GEO or RDM or another DD, something like that.

It's probably better if the BLU has club skill for blunt.

Could use the standard Kamihr setup (WHM, SCH/GEO/BLM, COR, BRD, SAM , MNK) and just replace the MNK with a BLU, though the BLU would need to bring clubs in case Raaz puts up blunt phase. Boss is resistant to slashing as well, so prob a good idea to use clubs on that. Not sure how Red Lotus Blade/Sanguine Blade do on that.

I obviously wasn't talking about the bee. Ranger does well on boss, but not as well 1-5. I assume Ryu dragoon does ok too, since I've gone Eminent polearm SAM there and wrecked him.


But that's been the story for monk in Adoulin since day one. Monk is good but not great dps; however, it has excellent utility (gimmicks) and survivability.


If you spreadsheet monk and Tsu samurai, the SAM wins, but it's not a huge gap. I've seen plenty of competitive runs between MNKs and SAMs. Unless your samurai has Koga, it's feasible that you could be beaten on a Tojil or Daqu fight.

Now samurai does cap higher, if you compare mythic SAM to mythic MNK, but on average these are comparable jobs. When you consider that monk is easier to gear and play, it's no wonder that there are more shouts for monk, at least on my server.

Does the spreadsheet include phase shifts in the bosses from which they take more/less damage from a type, factoring in formless, which gives monk a boost?

It does not, just the target's base stats. We've usually seen monks do very well on Tojil, for instance, because Formless closes the gap a bit.

edit: man, you're sick, what are you doing? LOL.

It falls under the umbrella of T1 delves, also Apex/Namas spam is way better than Polearm for that zone.

That really isn't true, until the WS rework monk was basically the highest DPS for non-Yorcia zones. Yes it did have utility and survivability but it also had the best DPS. That isn't true at all anymore.

Actually the gap between a Mnk and a Tsu Sam is larger than the gap between a Tsu Sam and a Koga Sam.

As I mentioned formless does make monk better against Tojil, however the spreadsheet also does not factor in SCing which is a huge part of Sams current DPS. You can basically tack on an extra few hundred DPS alone from a Sam SCing versus a Mnk SCing (non 4 stepping). Tojil is probably the mob that Mnk does do the best on when compared to other DDs because of quite a few factors, including the potent attack down.

Blu on the Raaz actually works pretty well using blunt spells if he does switch to that form, the mega boss is the real problem.

I was just messing around, but it seemed there was no difference in kill speed versus using ranged WS. The bee still melted. I have no doubt Namas beats melee piercing damage. On the other hand, Apex kinda sucks, and the buffs that you need to land it consistently aren't compatible with non-SAM DDs. That's just IMO, haven't ever done a 1:1 comparison.


Even before the WS rework monk was beaten by mythic SAM and probably other two-handers as well. It's always been the utility combined with acceptable (not top) damage.


With the combination of buffs/debuffs I'm using, Koga SAM has a margin over Tsu pretty similar to Tsu over relic MNK, and less than Tsu versus mythic MNK. Obviously this doesn't count SC damage, AM3 maintenance, or Formless, or any of that. Hell, with enough attack and ideal gear, I get polearm beating Tsu, which I'm not sure I understand, but whatever.

Anyway, getting off track. Monk is easier to use in Delve1 except in Ceizak. That's all I'm saying. Samurai is great, has always been great, but you're hardly crippling your group by bringing a monk.

And Yet I always own you on BLU.

Swap to Clubs - profit Realm and other Fun WS's are helpful.

Apex is pretty good really, it's what I use for bee and it also synergizes pretty well with Koga as you don't have to overwrite aftermaths.

Before the rework Mythic Sam was basically as good as Mnk, other two-handers were not even close (some still aren't).

I'd probably say you are doing something wrong if Polearm is beating Tsu.

I don't agree with ease of use, Monk has very few upsides that killing faster with a Sam wouldn't completely beat, unless of course gimmicks like mentioned before. In the end you can bring what you want and you won't cripple your group, I'm just saying comparing the DPS of a job that hasn't really been the benchmark for DPS in months is kind of silly. I was never really arguing against Mnk or Blu in delve, just the retardation that Nazrious was spitting every post.

my dd all have sam and mnk geared identically w/ koga yoichi and maxed out tp/ws sets, but no RME for mnk

i've had the best results using SAM SAM MNK in foret/ceizak and SAMx3 in morimar

i realize this is an anecdote, but anyone worth listening to can look at the spreadsheets and see which does more on paper, so figured i'd throw mine in with the rest

I personaly have better time SAM SAM BLU in Ceizak and SAM SAM MNK in Morimar, that first 25% on Tojil can be irritating.

Why Mnk in Ceizak? I can understand Sam Sam Mnk in foret for shield breaking but not really in Ceizak.

Really 2 DD is the way to go, throw in some Geo power or something.

usually make back over 60 seconds on mastop by having formless available, though my usual setup looks like:

sam sam mnk cor brd whm
geo geo sch
plasm mule/buyer/leech x9
(don't really need the sch, geos stun, but i'd rather have a char spamming t1s than another char doing nothing.. enthunderga for foret so i don't have to use gimp subjob)

possible the amount of useless characters is skewing how much of the run is spent dealing with resistances, since i know it does for krabakarpo

Thanks for the info, but the morimar result may not be very useful since your SAM has better weapon than MNK!

Don't you guys know, if you bring a non-SAM or MNK then the MB gains 20 levels and gets an en-death aura. Don't be noobs, only bring Koga SAM's, otherwise stay in your moghouses and dream of the day you can be leet enough to have two or three non-bandwagon Koga SAM's along with appropriate support crew.

Don't any of you have any linkshell pride!

And yeah anyone who brings MNK to Ceizak is an idiot, blunt damage is the worst thing to have on that MB. It's like the anti-Tojil, designed for MNK to suck mud but gives +100% damage to all piercing damage.

It's funny that I find this:


contradicting this:


Yeah, inc +20 lv and en-death aura if someone dare bringing a MNK to Ceizak!

3 COR/DNC and a support line beat 1-5 Muyingwa in 18mins.

Yeah, that sounds fun actually.

This thread is about BLU though :(

Lol I know wiki is out of date but I am surprised more people don't know how bee's -DT works. If you deal any blunt damage in the first 25% HP then it gains -DT at 75% HP when it uses whirlwind. After that its a stacking amount if you deal the wrong damage type. All piercing gets a +100% bonus with ranged and req ignoring the DT entirely. That 100% bonus is multiplied by the stacked -DT amount. Basically mythic DRG crushes everyone by an insane amount. After that its RNG, DNC and SAM (post Fudo buff or Namas spam) then BLU (req spam under 50%).

The stacking DT looks something like (100,50,75,87.5) without blunt its (100,100,50,75) for damage taken. Should be very obvious why a MNK is a liability.

I suppose Saevel just went out and say w/e he wants to say again, /sigh.

Does Bee give en-death aura if you have a MNK in pt? I'm not asking anything about DT mechanics, I'm asking en-death aura, y/n?

Also lol@ RNG>DNC>SAM>BLU comment.

Seriously this was discussed over on BG when they were trying to figure out the Bee mechanics. Each of the first three delve MBs have different damage mechanics. The bees damage reduction only happens if you deal the wrong damage type during each phase, the DT is a stacking 50% multiplied by the previous amount. So 100% damage between 100 and 75, if you dealt more the some amount blunt damage then it gets 50% DT after droning. After that it's piercing, slashing and magic. So by the time you hit 25% HP its 100 * .5 * .5 * .5 if you dealt blunt damage. Without blunt it wouldn't get -DT until 50% and be 100 * .5 * .5 by 25%.

It's why so many groups stall out at 25%. Ranged and Req ignore that DT entirely. Piercing gets a double damage bonus the entire time. Its why Mythic DRG and Namas SAM utterly destroy that Fight. You can go see for yourself if you want. That fight is really stacked against MNK and for any job that can deal high amounts of piercing damage.

Hello Saevel, this is my question:


In case you don't read, I'm gonna repeat it again:


And again, in bold this time:

Quote:

Does Bee give en-death aura if you have a MNK in pt? y/n?

Why do you talk about DT mechanic multiple times when I was asking a completely different question? I'm not arguing whether MNK is a good DD choice in Ceizak, I'm asking if inviting a MNK to a ceizak pt gives en-death aura.

So, your last post stated RNG>DNC>SAM>BLU, and somehow next post changed to DRG & SAM> all. So where's DRG in your first DD hierarchy statement? Where's DNC in 2nd DD hierarchy statement?

Do you know why I made that "lol" comment? It's not because I want to argue that MNK is good, but because your Ceizak DD hierarchy makes 0 sense that you changed your own statement after 20 min.

Psst, Af.

He was being flippant about the en-doom/death aura. The discussion about optimal setups for 119 content is being mocked when 3 COR/DNCs are rolling the content when they know what to do.

The reality is that 3 BLU + support line could stomp everything in Delve 1 easily. Bring a piercing DD to Muyingwa simply beats bringing a MNK every time. The job brings nothing to the table other than a liability on the boss and it's toolbox of tricks Formless / high HP / counters are useless there.

People bring MNK because it was the first job to clear the content and is generally stupidproof if you have complete gimps.

Am I the only person reading this thread title and having their brain try to twist it to "Devil with a Blue Dress"?

Arguing that "MNK doesn't bring anything to the table" is not different from saying "BLU doesn't bring anything to the table". All the tricks BLU can do in delve1 can be covered with avg support from PUG. All delve1 zone can be cleared with 1 SAM solo with support, and slightly less efficient if you change SAM to BLU. While Saevel made a comment like "If you bringing a none SAM DD to delve, the MB gains en-death aura" and criticize anyone arguing about optimal pt setup, he did the same thing himself.

I play BLU in delve1 a lot, but at least I don't criticize others for bringing a SAM instead.

18 min in a group of 6 isn't really 'rolling the content'

i do bee in 20 with 9 leeches standing at the entrance doing literally nothing(resulting in double the hp it'd have if they weren't there)

you could win with 6 whm if they cared enough to wear capped gear haste while meleeing, i was just throwing my results out there because everyone's anecdoting all over this thread and i've got an unbiased and consistant setup

maybe if you 6 man you'd be better off with all sam, but the time gained on chapuli and mastop is greater than the time lost on bee and the (essentially irrelevant) damage difference on neutral mobs

not that hard to engage at 75% if you don't have formless up, it's at 75 in under 30 sec with 2 fully buffed yoichi sams and a cor anyway..

COR/DNC is a beast (or can be), but on bee COR/WAR is even better.

Why? Ayotac +40% Oat and fencer, along with other /war stuff. Oat tp gain/damage suffers a bit in the offhand and fencer bumps last stand damage by about 10%. Constant nonstop max damage from last stand hard to beat.

IDK if spreadsheets are accurate (likely not esp with new roll ring), you could easily see that a COR with 6 rolls (SAM,DRK,RNG,THF,TACT,WAR) will ***a MNK or RNG or non-mythic sam with 0 rolls.

Sure you can argue the CORx3 >> other combo of jobs without any COR

I did post this in the COR thread right? Or is this still the mnk vs sam thread?

BLU.