BLU In Delve

Ah, then BLU > all jobs, always, no exceptions, and if you think differently you need to copy this post to other job threads and rant about it.

Ok.

This is a thread for Blue Mage.

It is not a thread for Samurai.

Or Delve specific.

or straegies.

Or the Monk.

or any othe rDD.


This thread is to discuss the viability of a BLU in delve, and it's requirements spell set / gear / ws wise.

Why are we discussing sam > Blu. No on gives a ***. This is about BLU being ABLE TO DO THIS

NOT ABOUT IT BEING OPTIMAL.

Good god.

Stop derailing with SAM ONRY mentality and stick to the OP and intent.

They need to be manually changed for Cor and Geo buffs. Hell some of the spreadsheets don't even have a place to put Geo buffs yet.

Spradsheets have inherent errors and don't factor in you swapping from optimal to PDT sets either.

Spreadsheets give you a guide but are fundamentally flawed.

Meaning your OPTIMAL set is on 80% of the time and is only 3% ahead of a set with 14% PDT in. that 14% PDT set allows you to full time it = MORE OVERALL DPS.

You can argue "WH< should be able to keep you alive" Well DD should swap sets appropriately or they a gimp useless waste of space, never heard of Lag? DC? Crashes? Distractions? Interruptions? Adds?

Its needed and should be put into sets all the time to work out how something will assist you stay in a better set for longer periods.

But spreadsheet mentality ruined player ability.

These are all things people should know when talking about spreadsheets, it's obvious. The idea of using spreadsheets is to see results when not skewed by player ability. The PDT thing can easily be put into the spreadsheets anyways so I don't see the point of that part of this post. How did spreadsheets ruin player ability? They are a tool to make choices easier to make.

Outside of full dmg immunity like Yorcia boss to piercing, any DD setup+brd cor or geo whm can clear any delve zone atm

I think the point is more to explain how a job like BLU would deal with many of the crutch mobs that warrant a MNK on runs like Matamata, Craklaw or how a Marjami run would go for non-RNGs. I've never done Kamihr on BLU so that's completely a '?' for me, though I might just setup a run to get Polar Roar.

I say this because people all apparently know about Craklaw until they don't.

Lots of reasons, some players see spreadsheets as infallible and never wrong, when they are occasionally.

Tools are fine when used properly, issue is people don't use tools correctly.

Like abyssea, was a tool to get better gear and level quick.
Side effect used incorrectly people failed to learn how to play their jobs.

You dont use mnk on mata.

I'd grant you Cracklaw But you could do it backwards :

Melee down and use Sanguine blade for 15k Magicial Weaponskill (before mobs immune resistances are calculated) arguably More effective anyways.

I don't know, do people really think that? It seems very obvious to me that spreadsheet results are never 100% accurate. Comparing it to abyssea doesn't really work, that is content not a tool. Compare it to something like how people used FFXI Calc back in the day, they used it to see how much STP was needed to xhit. Sure you can take the results and say "Oh well I can 3 hit with this much STP so I will", but it was almost entirely used just to be able to easily tell what was needed to reach a number.

Oh cmon, people used the excuse that the parser was for noting damage and accuracy among other things but for most people it just becomes this epeen tool that doesn't even really note total contribution.

Yeah, bruh you totally won the parse when half the people died because of a mechanic. Or you suddenly don't have parse results when you die early on or do poorly against a target.

a shame there was never an ffxi plugin made for ACT. makes parses a lot more useful since it doesn't ignore or fail to show important information.

Parsers are pretty different because of how people use them to tell if they are "good" or not. They are used in those situations to judge player performance. Tools like the spreadsheet don't tell you anything about yourself, just the capability of a robot playing a job.

bots don't come out very close to the result a spreadsheet indicates, too many outside factors even if engage speed/ja use/ws are controlled for and all -nas are yagrushed

For Matamata, blu actually works really well (not sure about Cracklaw). This past weekend we did a Tojil run for an ls member who recently returned to the game and needed some plasm and we don't have a lot of people in ls anymore or a huge selection of jobs, so we just went with a blu (me) and a sam as the only melees. We usually use a mnk to hold mata and then FS and nuke it down with my blm alt and the sch, but without a mnk we decided to just have me hold it and use spells on it to put it in physical mode.

After the second TP move I noticed the dmg of my physical blu spells was way higher than normal, so I thought I messed up, but after more and more tp moves I noticed that the dmg kept going up as though the spells were still considered as magical dmg for the multiplier, but considered physical dmg for the amount of dmg taken. I completely forgot about counting because of this, but after a few tp moves my spells were doing 99k and even before that, the mata was practically dead, since delta thrust before that was doing like 10-30k each. Also sudden lunge is nice to keep it stunned for a little bit if you have to cure yourself and don't want to get stunned or knocked back.

You could even see a robot IN a vacuum.

I mean, do people actually use spreadsheets to determine exactly how much damage they're going to do?

They're an excellent way to determine what's optimal, and they give a fair estimate of how one job compares to another. Variables like PDT swaps, player error, JA waits, and the like obviously knock estimates down a peg, but it should always be to scale. In that sense, the spreadsheet isn't giving erroneous values, simply inflated ones; their predictive accuracy shouldn't really be cause for concern.

Spreedsheets are really only good for comparing gear on the same job, they are incredibly poor for comparing different jobs due to all the various situations and buffs that may or may not be present. A WAR's enhanced Warcry gives +700 TP Bonus and 11.5% for 60 seconds. That's a pretty nice boost for WAR but an even bigger boost to Fudo SAM. Would that extra damage be attributed to the SAM or to the WAR? Same with a 60s bloodrage. They also fail to take into account each NM's weakness's, Bee is a perfect example. It takes double damage from piercing, so if a DRG's spreedsheet has 380 DPS with the SAM at 450 DPS, the DRG is still crushing the SAM in the actual fight (760 actual DPS). The SAM would have to deal 100% more damage then the DRG to merely match them. A BLU's WS would still do full damage even after it gained PDT which translates into a large DPS increase as the fight wears on. Tojil is the same way with MNK's, they get double damage during the final 25% and also do 160% damage during the first 25%, while everyone else deals 50% damage during the first 25% and then double during their respective phase. Tree is very weak to slashing and skillchains which gives SAM a 200% bonus to all TP and WS's which translates into much higher SC damage.

Spreadsheets fail to capture any of that and people need to consciously remember it.

At least on bee, SAM will be using bow WS and literally crushing DRG anyway. For something like tojil, only one mnk is even considered useful because 25% of the HP of one mob out of 6 is meaningless when other jobs can destroy the rest of the zone so much faster. Same goes for bee, actually, yeah requiescatv does well in the last 50% of the bee's HP, but other jobs clear the rest of the zone so much better it's still a net loss.

Spreadsheets are great for what they are for, and optimal jobs/gear are optimal, but results are what matters. Can you clear the content consistently? Is 3 DPs going to change that?

Only Koga Namas SAM, Apex is still sh!t. Mythic + Relic Bow SAM is a monster that crush's anything and everything, though it's pretty rare.


Huh, MNK is extremely useful on Mata and on the MB. The other NMs are all jokes anyway. Plus those two count for the majority of the total NM HP in that zone.

Apex is no where near ***, in fact it allows you to keep up Koga Aftermath which makes it pretty valuable to have. For this zone in my experience Tsu+Apex is actually very close to Koga+Namas, closer than Koga and Tsu would normally be since Kogas OA2-3 isn't increasing WS damage.

Assuming you prep him for formless, I haven't seen that strategy for a long time. If you prep him using a Sch, Mnk has no special use for that. For the Mega Boss all Monk has is formless for the first 25%, many jobs that can exploit multiple weaknesses are way better.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought a Level 1 relic AM couldn't overwritght AM3 (Mythic)

It does, just double checked with someone that owns both to be sure.

Supposedly relic aftermath will overwrite all others regardless of level, but as SAM is the only job that can simultaneously equip a relic and a mythic aftermath capable weapon, and people report namas overwriting Koga AM3, it could just be a goofy mechanic that SE never considered.


A good SCH or RDM can prep mata while DD's rip up the first 2 NM's and probably even stun the 4th if it's not ready by the time the first 2 NM's are dead with an extra DD on them. MNK is one way to do Mata, but not the best or only way. A good SCH or RDM can completely solo Mata then catch up if they just melee to feed TP then nuke at 5 TP moves, or prep with low tier nukes and DD's will just smash it when it's ready, sleeping whatever they're fighting for a couple seconds.

Except that's not what you said.


MNK is useful on two NM's. Not only that but it's gets a damage bonus on 50% of the MB's HP without requiring any special gear.

Regardless of what the True Believers are preaching, Apex is crap due to low fTP and a really bad WSC (for SAM). 3.0 fTP and 73% AGI for most of the population, 85% AGI for the truly hard core folks. That's stupendously weak when compared to Fudo, Stardiver or Drakesbane. So weak that a SAM would be better off spamming Fudo during Tojil's 70~50% phase then trying to spam Apex to take advantage of the double piercing damage. It's only use on Bee is under 50% when it's PDT is such that Fudo would start to suck mud (unless you brought a MNK, then your screwed starting at 75%). Namas on the other hand is really nice with a STR mod and the 40% damage boost from Relic bow.

Anyhow this is about being useful on BLU not about spreading the gospel of the one true job Samurai. This place tends to distort stuff so badly that it no longer resembles actual game play the players experience on a day to day basis, but some Picasso-esque facsimile thereof.

You are way underestimating Apex, at 5/5 it is on par with Namas in damage and allows for the upkeep of AM3 on Koga. Sure Namas has a STR mod, a 40% STR mod, because Namas overwrites Koga AM the two basically don't synergize. I agree that Apex/Namas aren't worth using usually during weakness phases of Tojil or Shark, but for bee you are way under valuing Apex.

Again, MNK isn't useful for Mata unless you have a SCH or RDM that needs to pick his nose for the first 6 minutes of a run. On Tojil, the last 25% is over in a flash with or without blunt damage. It's really only the first 25 when hate can get wonky and a mage can get hit with silence or sleep, and that's barely more than an annoyance and easily avoided. On bee, a good Apex SAM will start with 8-10K WS and still be in the 4-5K range by the time it's dead. It doesn't quite keep up with Namas only because you will need more Racc either in gear or buffs, but 2-3 minute bees with 2 Apex SAMs is pretty standard, and I've yet to see any BLU come within 10% of an Apex SAM on parse. Is BLU useful in delve? I'd take a good BLU over a crappy SAM, but that doesn't mean it's on the same level job for job.

Ok gaiz, I think we all know SAM is good. Also, water is wet. Sky can be blue. Humans are scumbags.

Can we get a breakdown on what BLU should be doing on each NM in Delve or was I wrong to have pulled out mah reading specs and thought we were here to give BLU an idea of what to expect in Delves.

I'm surprised you guys talk about bee like it matter, it die faster than chapuli/mastop/moth.

....
Not even .... anywhere ..... wow

Apex 3.0 fTP 85% AGI
Namas 2.75 fTP 40% STR and 40% AGI and most importantly +40% Damage

Not only is STR a superior WSC, but it's even better for RNG then it is for melees due to fSTR2. Each point of additional STR adds 0.5 base DMG which is actually more then the amount it gives for WSC.

+10 STR * .4 = 4DMG
+10 STR /2 = +5DMG
Total amount would be ~9 DMG from that same +10STR.

Apex is sh!t, it's only use is to do piercing damage while maintaining Koga AM when the target is so resistant to slashing that Fudo is futile. It's nowhere close to Namas in damage and far behind Fudo, Resolution, Upheaval, and Drakes.