[dev1135] New Special Job Abilities

Double HP MNK/drk + Hundred Fists + Souleater + dedicated WHM healer = kill everything without Souleater resistance.

I wonder if the new MNK SP will double after effects from gear, or just the base (relic+2, for example). Also, will Mantra stack with this, and will it be applied before or after the buff in the calculation. Also, how does it all interact with giant's drink effects? (They don't stack with Mantra, as far as I know.)

I've seen a 10k hp monk screenshot, so I'm just imagining 20k hp and souleater...

11-19-2012 01:33 PM [source]
Camate Community Rep		Greetings! First let me start off by saying that the Community Team understands everyone's concerns with red mage's new special ability and we are doing our best to collect all your feedback and share it with the development team. It might take a bit before we get a solid response, but we will continue to collect and submit everything we see. While on the topic of red mage, please note that there is currently a bug on the Test Server where enfeebling effects may land on monsters with immunity when using the new special ability and the development team is working to fix it. As announced, this ability cannot be used on monsters with immunity; however, resistance adjustments for Abyssea monsters have not yet been finished and in the future we will be applying adjustments and will be removing a great deal of monsters with immunity. Next, some more monk feedback. There were some comments mentioning that monk's new special ability wouldn't help much for tanking since the effect duration is only a minute long. While the development team will continue to adjust the effect duration as testing is performed, they're thinking about keeping the maximum duration at 60 seconds. The effect duration was set this way to act as a method of surviving a crisis, much like Invincible or Perfect Dodge, and not to maintain the increased HP for an entire battle. Also, there was a request to change the HP increase value to a static number instead of doubling the amount of HP the character has due to differences in races. While we will look into this, by making it a completely static value we will no longer be able to address the HP per level, so the effect would have to be added by either "level x n" or "VIT x n." As long as we can make it in time, we will switch to a static value increase for the next Test Server update so you can all try this out for a while.
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11-19-2012 04:56 PM [source]
Camate Community Rep		Hello! The core issue here is overwriting songs and there are two factors at play: Depending on what instruments you use there are differences in effects for songs, and songs that are cast later will be shorter. It’s not possible to overwrite songs that have effect durations of 120 seconds or more. The former factor is something that players have control over via equipment, so we prefer to leave this as it is; since there are times that you will not want songs with weaker effects to take priority. On the other hand, the latter is something that we would like to adjust and are currently looking into how we can make it so songs with an effect duration of 120 seconds or more can be overwritten. We believe that Tenuto and other elements are a contributing factor to this issue and would like some time to look into this. On a slightly different note, there was a request to make it easier to distinguish songs that have worn off via the chat log, since in cases when similar songs (i.e. Minuet IV and V) are both on a party member and one of them is removed by Dispel or other means, it’s difficult to discern which of the two was removed. We agree that this would definitely be beneficial and is something that we would like to address if possible; however, it would require the development team to redo the enhancing statuses for each song and level, readjust the stats one by one, and change the song system significantly, so unfortunately it would be extremely difficult to do right away. We will keep you posted when we receive some new information about the overwriting issue.
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Being able to sleep nothing once an hour is totally useful.

Monk's is at least useful as a full-cure. Like, say you're killing something on Monk and all of a sudden ***goes down and you lose your mages for some reason. You have low HP and the monster is still hitting you. If you pop this ability, you get cured to full and have an extra 2000+ HP you can lose over the next minute that you don't even need someone to cure back. It's mega-chakra.

On top of that, I wonder how much Enmity it gives. If you get full Enmity for healing yourself for like 4000 HP, this move would be a very easy way to circumvent enmity resets. I still think it's way strategically undervalued by people at the moment.

I kinda like that Mnk 2hr, a mega-chakra makes sense.
While the new red mage one does make sense too, it's more or less useless.
What was wrong with the old one? "Bolsters enhancing magic" D:

It worked great, they're giving it to whm...

Until they hate reset 2 seconds later. If that works that way though, they could do a quick aoe, then use this and have perma-hate on every mob and the hp to survive it. But yeah, I think it's a decent ability. Certainly got it better than rdm ; ;

I like how Camate basically said 'There is a bug that makes RDMs new JA actually useful, don't worry, we're fixing that'

made me lulz

Perma hate? Hate decays when being struck and the enmity caps haven't changed since Kaeko started his testing.

This might be a great way to snap hate, but then the DDs catch up and it's the same thing that's already going on.

Yes monks put out great damage, but the problem is when all your dds are sitting at hate cap and there's not much to be done about it.

They have to fix hate cap, or make all actions/abilities/spells cause a fraction of the enmity they currently do, thus increasing the hate cap.

Using this for snap hate is precisely like using Invincible for snap hate. It's all great well and good if you're certain you won't need your 2hr for it's actual value later.


Enmity resets are usually only on a single target or targets nearby. Curing yourself for 2000 hp probably isn't going to save your mages/ranged dd, not once every 2 hours.

Sure, except healing gives CE and VE while invincible gives only VE. This would be much better for recovering after enmity resets than invincible, not that they are really much of an issue at the moment.

I've seen some stupid ***, but this is close to taking the cake

Well ok, not really, but it's up there

That depends whether they take their cues from Chakra or Waltz.

I'm not sure of the exact formula, it's been a while since I read kanican's stuff, but I know (as most people do) that when a player gets hit/loses a shadow a certain amount of CE is removed.

Let's say with 0 enmity gear, and 0 enmity merits, the tank loses CE equal to the damage they take. Even if it's half or 25%, it doesn't take long in a fight for tank to take 4000 or 8000 damage to completely annull that CE gained. CE from monk's other abilities is minimal.

Aside from Chi Blast, none of Monk's other abilities (as with most JAs) produce any more than CE and that CE is only, of course, to put you on the target's hate list so you can die along with everyone else.

This ability isn't perma hate by any stretch, even if it causes VE and CE.

11-19-2012 04:56 PM [source]
Camate Community Rep		Hello! The core issue here is overwriting songs and there are two factors at play: Depending on what instruments you use there are differences in effects for songs, and songs that are cast later will be shorter. It’s not possible to overwrite songs that have effect durations of 120 seconds or more. The former factor is something that players have control over via equipment, so we prefer to leave this as it is; since there are times that you will not want songs with weaker effects to take priority. On the other hand, the latter is something that we would like to adjust and are currently looking into how we can make it so songs with an effect duration of 120 seconds or more can be overwritten. We believe that Tenuto and other elements are a contributing factor to this issue and would like some time to look into this. On a slightly different note, there was a request to make it easier to distinguish songs that have worn off via the chat log, since in cases when similar songs (i.e. Minuet IV and V) are both on a party member and one of them is removed by Dispel or other means, it’s difficult to discern which of the two was removed. We agree that this would definitely be beneficial and is something that we would like to address if possible; however, it would require the development team to redo the enhancing statuses for each song and level, readjust the stats one by one, and change the song system significantly, so unfortunately it would be extremely difficult to do right away. We will keep you posted when we receive some new information about the overwriting issue.
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what isn't extremely difficult for them I wonder?

Saying that something is too difficult to do, or too time consuming. I mean, if they couldn't tell us No! then it may seem like they are actually working at a real job or something.

I think, and I may be wrong, that 90% of the team is working on finalizing the expansion so the joke about only being 2 devs doing these updates may be true.

While they're talking about the ability to discern what has worn off, and I understand they're talking about Minuet v Minuet, etc, I wish they'd add a filter to color that text.

Yes I know there's tools to address precisely that, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't have done something about it years ago.

I'm pretty sure this is the case, and while well-intentioned I think it will end up hurting them in the long run. There's just not enough to sustain interest in XI that long.

"resistance adjustments for Abyssea monsters have not yet been finished and in the future we will be applying adjustments and will be removing a great deal of monsters with immunity"

Seriously? Abyssea? wtf Abyssea keep dead ages ago....

I find it all quite stupid at times.

I mean, if they would have just followed one of the key systems that have been in every final fantasy game they've ever made, they wouldn't have these issues with getting status effect information to the player.

If they would have just integrated the ability to view the current status effects on a player just by targeting them from the start of development, then I think there would have been a lot less fuss about the chat log.

It's not difficult to keep track of what person has what with a team that is familiar with each other and uses effective communication during battles, but for a random group the story isn't the same. A good player on a supporting role will have less issues keeping buffs up and keeping negative status effects off of their team, but for players who are not so familiar with the role that is the opposite.

It's just stupid how much it makes sense, and yet 10 years later we are no closer to making it easier for players to know who has what without communication between each other. In fact, I'd almost say that we are worse off.

As an example, lets say one of your team members had a very potent blind, lets say 75% less acc from your normal acc, and you didn't know about it because you filter out player attacks from the chat log and the log entry flew by because it was an AoE attack. This blind is so potent that after awhile they have to ask for a blindna. You didn't know about it, and you probably would have targeted them multiple times between when they first received the effect and when they asked for it to be removed. You could have known about it the very first time your target was over their name, but because you aren't able to see their status effects, and you missed the the chat log say they are blinded, they missed multiple opportunities to gain TP and deal more damage.

It's not a huge deal really, but something as simple as that would increase team performance before communication between each other ever got involved. I just find it stupid.

/end rant/

Every other MMO I've played, every single one, has had the ability to see buffs and debuffs on others. Sometimes only your buffs on them, sometimes everyone's, and usually there was an option, as the whm wants to make sure you have protect but doesn't personally care if you have march.

Nothing is perma hate. This would just be a lot of instant hate if used properly. It's relevant for lowmanning things with throat-stab hate resets, which is a situation that it wouldn't be unusual for Monk to be in. For instance, against a powered-up Long-Bowed Chariot.

I don't understand the relevance of anything else from that post.

I'm not sure it will catch up as quickly as you think it will.

And also, once again, this is on fights where you're sure you won't need your 2 hour for later in the fight. In this case, the mob might soft-rage at low health. That's the proper time to double(whatever) your hp, not as a response to a hate reset.

Chakra causes 1 CE, while waltz causes CE equal to, or relative to, the amount cured. So it depends on whether they took their cues from Chakra or Waltz.

Sorry... I used exaggerated wordage here, I'm very familiar with Kaeko's enmity testing and that it still functions in that way, and I didn't feel it needed to be stated out right particularly since I'm addressing someone with such huge knowledge of in game mechanics such as Byrth, realistically no, it wouldn't provide infinite hate of course, but it would certainly be a lot if it does work the way normal heals work.

I didn't actually think you meant perma hate. I wasn't sure if you had thought it would be some massive amount of hate, which it may or may not be, depending on what SE does with it. Of course, no amount of hate will fix the current problems with enmity.

In this age, too many players, in AF1 and in Legion gear just think that they're so badass noone can hold hate off them.

guess they didn't have another feedback for the new nin 2hr commentary lol, their stance on supporting rdm's new 2hr is also lol the only slight grace is that they may consider the duration.


Guess I thought we had it bad with unbridled wisdom.

On the seeing buff topic, even FFXIV lets you see debuffs, mobs and players alike. Why can't we port that over?

And the more I hear about SE saying "This would require a lot of work" kinda pisses me off. Perhaps if they hadn't coded the original game so poorly, it wouldn't be an issue to implement fixes and they wouldn't need time to detangle the spaghetti code. I don't even understand why the hell they would make it so that songs with 1:20 left cannot be overwritten... Poor design.

On the plus side, perhaps by 2014 we'll be able to have spellcast see double marches due to splitting out the buff id's.

I had a thought about SCHs 2 hour.

Even though it sucks being that it is party dependent, I may found a use for it if someone can test it.

For future content, there may be bosses/fights where randomly you have no choice but to fight a bunch of monsters all at once.

So I was thinking does this new 2 hour ability require you to target the member of the party? Can I have someone far away from me and use the ability?

For example, Party fighting a mega boss. When this boss reaches X% HP it summons a X amount of mobs. Most likely in this situation it will destroy a party. However, being that there's a member at a far location and I have my 2 hour, when all the mobs appear I can just pop that 2 hour and select that far member and not deal with them for X amount of time.

Qiqirn Treasure Hunter - gravity.

I've not tested this ability but I can assure you, they'd have to be in range, I don't know of any ability in the game you can use on another char and have them out of range. You could try with <stpt> or <stal> but even though you can point at them and try to click, the effect won't go off if there's no target in range.

Also, aggroed, or popped, mobs don't have any hate, you'd have to act on each on and get on the hate list. Though you could aoe the mobs, then cast hate on to a kiter and have them run around with the mobs, despite not being able to get much more than a 10-25' lead.

Does Scholar's new 2 hour just seem silly to anyone else?

The other thing is... wouldn't it be better as a thf 2hr? I know scholar has Libra and Animus spells, but thf's abilities with hate control can be really really fun.

Steal all of the party's enmity, and then TA the tank.. that could be very potent.

Most of these 2 hours just seem like SE wants to add abilities. Many of them don't seem like they're worth the time to strategize for.