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[Dev] SCH - Regarding Cure V and Regen
 Fenrir.Minjo
Server: Fenrir
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Posts: 1326
By Fenrir.Minjo 2011-11-21 14:43:41
As far as this game is concerned, "not enough people" involves having fewer than 4-5 able bodies. If that's the case, its time to make new friends, not rely on poorly designed jobs.
let me guess, your still stuck in the world of abyssea?
Let me guess, you're still stuck in the world of pretty snowflakes who like to push the limits of jobs barely capable of filling roles that widely available alternatives can fill with limited to no difficulty?
Want to be condescending? Fine, but I'm not the one trying to circle the square here.
 Valefor.Caelir
Server: Valefor
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Posts: 80
By Valefor.Caelir 2011-11-21 14:46:59
As far as this game is concerned, "not enough people" involves having fewer than 4-5 able bodies. If that's the case, its time to make new friends, not rely on poorly designed jobs.
let me guess, your still stuck in the world of abyssea?
Let me guess, you're still stuck in the world of pretty snowflakes who like to push the limits of jobs barely capable of filling roles that widely available alternatives can fill with limited to no difficulty?
Want to be condescending? Fine, but I'm not the one trying to circle the square here.
well you tell me something actually worthwhile outside, that is moderately difficult that u only take 4-5 people to?
Also apologies that stuff on this thread has went off topic
Bump
VIP
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By Siren.Kalilla 2011-11-21 14:48:34
As far as this game is concerned, "not enough people" involves having fewer than 4-5 able bodies. If that's the case, its time to make new friends, not rely on poorly designed jobs.
let me guess, your still stuck in the world of abyssea?
Let me guess, you're still stuck in the world of pretty snowflakes who like to push the limits of jobs barely capable of filling roles that widely available alternatives can fill with limited to no difficulty?
Want to be condescending? Fine, but I'm not the one trying to circle the square here. Read that and immediately thought of whm melee >.>; so much fun
With that in mind I think it is more of a preference of what job they like being on rather what is more effective. Not everyone cares about being the most powerful you can possibly be.
Fenrir.Minjo
Server: Fenrir
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Posts: 1326
By Fenrir.Minjo 2011-11-21 16:03:40
As far as this game is concerned, "not enough people" involves having fewer than 4-5 able bodies. If that's the case, its time to make new friends, not rely on poorly designed jobs.
let me guess, your still stuck in the world of abyssea?
Let me guess, you're still stuck in the world of pretty snowflakes who like to push the limits of jobs barely capable of filling roles that widely available alternatives can fill with limited to no difficulty?
Want to be condescending? Fine, but I'm not the one trying to circle the square here.
well you tell me something actually worthwhile outside, that is moderately difficult that u only take 4-5 people to?
Also apologies that stuff on this thread has went off topic
Bump
Not to shift the burden of proof, but I challenge you to think of a situation where, low-man or otherwise, a SCH would be the optimal decision - Libra and Modus Veritas procs notwithstanding.
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2011-11-21 16:08:06
Embrava is the only cool thing that SCH can do
Fenrir.Minjo
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By Fenrir.Minjo 2011-11-21 16:12:03
Valefor.Prothescar said: »Embrava is the only cool thing that SCH can do
Agreed, and while I realize this probably isn't what you were suggesting, I don't find it to be a substantial gain in VW. The nature of the event doesn't allow for it to be a sustainable benefit.
Valefor.Caelir
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By Valefor.Caelir 2011-11-21 16:19:26
for semi lowman VW where you are limited to amount of blm's/whm's available. (not every1 is fortunate enough to have an abundance of good blm's and whm's)
scholar can shift the burden of single tier proc's away from blm's aswell as help heal his party.
Fenrir.Minjo
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By Fenrir.Minjo 2011-11-21 16:24:10
for semi lowman VW where you are limited to amount of blm's/whm's available. (not every1 is fortunate enough to have an abundance of good blm's and whm's)
scholar can shift the burden of single tier proc's away from blm's aswell as help heal his party.
In the event that you've got a limit number of people to cover mages, you still shouldn't be using SCH. Given the choice between WHM&BLM, WHM&SCH, and BLM&SCH, there's absolutely no reason not to go with the front-runner. A WHM with temp items and moderate-grade equipment can act as an independent support system almost indefinitely, and a BLM severely trumps SCH in non-curative utility(which shouldn't be of greater necessity than stun/procs).
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By Lakshmi.Sirafiinikkusu 2011-11-21 16:35:04
for semi lowman VW where you are limited to amount of blm's/whm's available. (not every1 is fortunate enough to have an abundance of good blm's and whm's)
scholar can shift the burden of single tier proc's away from blm's aswell as help heal his party.
In the event that you've got a limit number of people to cover mages, you still shouldn't be using SCH. Given the choice between WHM&BLM, WHM&SCH, and BLM&SCH, there's absolutely no reason not to go with the front-runner. A WHM with temp items and moderate-grade equipment can act as an independent support system almost indefinitely, and a BLM severely trumps SCH in non-curative utility(which shouldn't be of greater necessity than stun/procs). yeah but nor whm or blm can solo VW :3
Valefor.Caelir
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Posts: 80
By Valefor.Caelir 2011-11-21 16:37:19
for semi lowman VW where you are limited to amount of blm's/whm's available. (not every1 is fortunate enough to have an abundance of good blm's and whm's)
scholar can shift the burden of single tier proc's away from blm's aswell as help heal his party.
In the event that you've got a limit number of people to cover mages, you still shouldn't be using SCH. Given the choice between WHM&BLM, WHM&SCH, and BLM&SCH, there's absolutely no reason not to go with the front-runner. A WHM with temp items and moderate-grade equipment can act as an independent support system almost indefinitely, and a BLM severely trumps SCH in non-curative utility(which shouldn't be of greater necessity than stun/procs).
So what your saying to me is, until scholars get a major revamp and they have there own role, they should just be left out all together?
now i think you are just trying to provoke an arguement which is kinda funny since you were acusing me of trying to provoke 1.
Fenrir.Minjo
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By Fenrir.Minjo 2011-11-21 16:38:08
Lakshmi.Sirafiinikkusu said: »for semi lowman VW where you are limited to amount of blm's/whm's available. (not every1 is fortunate enough to have an abundance of good blm's and whm's)
scholar can shift the burden of single tier proc's away from blm's aswell as help heal his party.
In the event that you've got a limit number of people to cover mages, you still shouldn't be using SCH. Given the choice between WHM&BLM, WHM&SCH, and BLM&SCH, there's absolutely no reason not to go with the front-runner. A WHM with temp items and moderate-grade equipment can act as an independent support system almost indefinitely, and a BLM severely trumps SCH in non-curative utility(which shouldn't be of greater necessity than stun/procs). yeah but nor whm or blm can solo VW :3
While I realize you're joking, I highly doubt a BLM or RDM would have much more difficulty doing the same thing.
Fenrir.Minjo
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Posts: 1326
By Fenrir.Minjo 2011-11-21 16:39:51
for semi lowman VW where you are limited to amount of blm's/whm's available. (not every1 is fortunate enough to have an abundance of good blm's and whm's)
scholar can shift the burden of single tier proc's away from blm's aswell as help heal his party.
In the event that you've got a limit number of people to cover mages, you still shouldn't be using SCH. Given the choice between WHM&BLM, WHM&SCH, and BLM&SCH, there's absolutely no reason not to go with the front-runner. A WHM with temp items and moderate-grade equipment can act as an independent support system almost indefinitely, and a BLM severely trumps SCH in non-curative utility(which shouldn't be of greater necessity than stun/procs).
So what your saying to me is, until scholars get a major revamp and they have there own role, they should just be left out all together?
now i think you are just trying to provoke an arguement which is kinda funny since you were acusing me of trying to provoke 1.
Given the dramatically superior alternatives? Unfortunately, yes.
And its only provocative if you're irrational enough to take this as a personal attack. A job's poor design has no baring on my opinion of the people who defend its (lack of) significant utility.
I will say that the fastest way to ensure that a lacking class doesn't receive the attention it needs is to pretend that there's no issue. PUP is constantly undergoing changes that vastly improve the functionality of the job, and that has everything to do with the playerbase pointing out its faults instead of pretending it has none.
By Brolli 2011-11-21 17:06:58
-Implying that sch is only good for healing-
it's kinda weird how ppl camp threads/makes personal opinions about about something that they don't event have it, idk about others servers but sch is mainly recruited on most shells/pts and events for DD not for healing/enhancing purposes,
Server: Lakshmi
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By Lakshmi.Sirafiinikkusu 2011-11-21 17:12:06
Server: Lakshmi
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Posts: 1060
By Lakshmi.Sirafiinikkusu 2011-11-21 17:15:21
-Implying that sch is only good for healing-
it's kinda weird how ppl camp threads/makes personal opinions about about something that they don't event have it, idk about others servers but sch is mainly recruited on most shells/pts and events for DD not for healing/enhancing purposes, that was never implied, you need to stop white-knighting emanuelle since this is obviously where it stems from (does he even still play anymore?)
Fenrir.Niniann
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By Fenrir.Niniann 2011-11-21 17:18:42
-Implying that sch is only good for healing-
it's kinda weird how ppl camp threads/makes personal opinions about about something that they don't event have it, idk about others servers but sch is mainly recruited on most shells/pts and events for DD not for healing/enhancing purposes,
People bring SCH along if they need Embrava, or proc spells. This is the unfortunate reality. Any other benefits are just icing.
By Brolli 2011-11-21 17:21:19
Lakshmi.Sirafiinikkusu said: »-Implying that sch is only good for healing-
it's kinda weird how ppl camp threads/makes personal opinions about about something that they don't event have it, idk about others servers but sch is mainly recruited on most shells/pts and events for DD not for healing/enhancing purposes, that was never implied, you need to stop white-knighting emanuelle since this is obviously where it stems from (does he even still play anymore?) did you get your obis? my posts have nothing to do with emanuelle. idk what are you talking about i'm sch too, emanuelle is taking a break form the game and now playing starcraft/guildwars2 on jan, would be nice that you contribute to something than starting a flame or troll
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By Fenrir.Skadoosh 2011-11-21 17:23:44
my posts have nothing to do with emanuelle. idk what are you talking about
Fenrir.Minjo
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Posts: 1326
By Fenrir.Minjo 2011-11-21 17:29:23
Lakshmi.Sirafiinikkusu said: »While I realize you're joking, I highly doubt a BLM or RDM would have much more difficulty doing the same thing. though i was kinda kidding being that you wont get proper lights but........
I'm aware of what's been done. I don't see any of it as scholar-specific, though.
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2011-11-21 17:32:42
The solos are impressive, I doubt they're limited to only SCH, but they're impressive.
Healing and nuking are both half baked for SCH, bringing a job, BLM or WHM (which almost everyone has one or the other levelled), that actually performs its role to its most capable boundaries is always the superior option, this is common logic. SCH has less black magic and white magic procs than either WHM or BLM, can not hope to put out the healing that a WHM can (especially when figuring in Cureskin), and, while some SCHs like to say they can, can not deal as much magic damage over time as a BLM will be putting out.
You get Libra and Modus Veritas. Those two abilities are not worth a slot in any alliance that I will ever put together, and many share my resolve.
 Phoenix.Sehachan
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By Phoenix.Sehachan 2011-11-21 17:37:07
Valefor.Prothescar said: »not worth a slot in any alliance Too bad, I like having one in my party :( animus+adloquium+firestorm are sexy stuff for my cor!
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By Lakshmi.Sirafiinikkusu 2011-11-21 17:39:54
Lakshmi.Sirafiinikkusu said: »-Implying that sch is only good for healing-
it's kinda weird how ppl camp threads/makes personal opinions about about something that they don't event have it, idk about others servers but sch is mainly recruited on most shells/pts and events for DD not for healing/enhancing purposes, that was never implied, you need to stop white-knighting emanuelle since this is obviously where it stems from (does he even still play anymore?) did you get your obis? my posts have nothing to do with emanuelle. idk what are you talking about i'm sch too, emanuelle is taking a break form the game and now playing starcraft/guildwars2 on jan, would be nice that you contribute to something than starting a flame or troll first off, yes i have all of the obi's and im more than willing to show them off to you, so take that sock and shove it in your mouth.
2nd of all since you apparently read all of the topic, did you atleast look at the post above the one i directed at you? cause im obviously contributing where as all i see is whiteknight from you.
3rd, dont even get me started on you and sch.
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By Lakshmi.Sirafiinikkusu 2011-11-21 17:44:09
Lakshmi.Sirafiinikkusu said: »While I realize you're joking, I highly doubt a BLM or RDM would have much more difficulty doing the same thing. though i was kinda kidding being that you wont get proper lights but........
I'm aware of what's been done. I don't see any of it as scholar-specific, though. rdm lacks the power to complete the fight in a timely matter, and blm is missing a regen that's worth a damn. that and to even bother with hahava you would have to sub whm or sch to get cursna or viruna, sch would be better with the fastcast and mp department but you only get 2 strategems to work with so flipping to addendum white is a bit of a trivial problem.
that and i dont know how potent helix is as with sch as a sub, from my understanding the damage boost was meant for sch mains.
Fenrir.Minjo
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By Fenrir.Minjo 2011-11-21 17:44:44
WAR, WHM, BLM, RDM, THF/DNC, PUP/MNK, PLD, DRK, BRD, BST, SAM, RNG, NIN, DRG, SMN, BLU, COR, SCH
More or less the only time I'd ever really want a SCH around. Chances of that alliance happening? Fairly low.
By Brolli 2011-11-21 17:45:46
Lakshmi.Sirafiinikkusu said: »Lakshmi.Sirafiinikkusu said: »-Implying that sch is only good for healing-
it's kinda weird how ppl camp threads/makes personal opinions about about something that they don't event have it, idk about others servers but sch is mainly recruited on most shells/pts and events for DD not for healing/enhancing purposes, that was never implied, you need to stop white-knighting emanuelle since this is obviously where it stems from (does he even still play anymore?) did you get your obis? my posts have nothing to do with emanuelle. idk what are you talking about i'm sch too, emanuelle is taking a break form the game and now playing starcraft/guildwars2 on jan, would be nice that you contribute to something than starting a flame or troll first off, yes i have all of the obi's and im more than willing to show them off to you, so take that sock and shove it in your mouth.
2nd of all since you apparently read all of the topic, did you atleast look at the post above the one i directed at you? cause im obviously contributing where as all i see is whiteknight from you.
3rd, dont even get me started on you and sch. that's good, now you can be a lil more qualified to make opinions about sch (i guess), that excuse of not having inventory space was getting rly old
Fenrir.Minjo
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Posts: 1326
By Fenrir.Minjo 2011-11-21 17:46:58
Lakshmi.Sirafiinikkusu said: »Lakshmi.Sirafiinikkusu said: »While I realize you're joking, I highly doubt a BLM or RDM would have much more difficulty doing the same thing. though i was kinda kidding being that you wont get proper lights but........
I'm aware of what's been done. I don't see any of it as scholar-specific, though. , and blm is missing a regen that's worth a damn. that and to even bother with hahava you would have to sub whm or sch to get cursna or viruna, sch would be better with the fastcast and mp department but you only get 2 strategems to work with so flipping to addendum white is a bit of a trivial problem.
that and i dont know how potent helix is as with sch as a sub, from my understanding the damage boost was meant for sch mains.
Disagree with your initial point, and will only concede that your following ones would put you in a less ideal position, not that it would eliminate the possibility. I saw nothing that would lead me to believe that it isn't repeatable by any of the aforementioned jobs.
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By Lakshmi.Sirafiinikkusu 2011-11-21 17:50:10
Lakshmi.Sirafiinikkusu said: »Lakshmi.Sirafiinikkusu said: »-Implying that sch is only good for healing-
it's kinda weird how ppl camp threads/makes personal opinions about about something that they don't event have it, idk about others servers but sch is mainly recruited on most shells/pts and events for DD not for healing/enhancing purposes, that was never implied, you need to stop white-knighting emanuelle since this is obviously where it stems from (does he even still play anymore?) did you get your obis? my posts have nothing to do with emanuelle. idk what are you talking about i'm sch too, emanuelle is taking a break form the game and now playing starcraft/guildwars2 on jan, would be nice that you contribute to something than starting a flame or troll first off, yes i have all of the obi's and im more than willing to show them off to you, so take that sock and shove it in your mouth.
2nd of all since you apparently read all of the topic, did you atleast look at the post above the one i directed at you? cause im obviously contributing where as all i see is whiteknight from you.
3rd, dont even get me started on you and sch. that's good, now you can be a lil more qualified to make opinions about sch (i guess), that excuse of not having inventory space was getting rly old when was the last time i even commented on obi's? and seriously you compared me to that piece of ***emanualle who doesnt even have half the gear i do on sch. Your half baked insults about old ***are getting pathetic. Unless you can do something other than bragging about how seriously "amazing" scholar is in today's end game without ***to back it up, i suggest you shut the *** up lol.
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2011-11-21 17:50:57
Lakshmi.Sirafiinikkusu said: »Lakshmi.Sirafiinikkusu said: »-Implying that sch is only good for healing-
it's kinda weird how ppl camp threads/makes personal opinions about about something that they don't event have it, idk about others servers but sch is mainly recruited on most shells/pts and events for DD not for healing/enhancing purposes, that was never implied, you need to stop white-knighting emanuelle since this is obviously where it stems from (does he even still play anymore?) did you get your obis? my posts have nothing to do with emanuelle. idk what are you talking about i'm sch too, emanuelle is taking a break form the game and now playing starcraft/guildwars2 on jan, would be nice that you contribute to something than starting a flame or troll first off, yes i have all of the obi's and im more than willing to show them off to you, so take that sock and shove it in your mouth.
2nd of all since you apparently read all of the topic, did you atleast look at the post above the one i directed at you? cause im obviously contributing where as all i see is whiteknight from you.
3rd, dont even get me started on you and sch. that's good, now you can be a lil more qualified to make opinions about sch (i guess), that excuse of not having inventory space was getting rly old
Your argument hasn't been valid since 2003. It's getting rly old
Server: Lakshmi
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By Lakshmi.Sirafiinikkusu 2011-11-21 17:52:43
Disagree with your initial point, and will only concede that your following ones would put you in a less ideal position, not that it would eliminate the possibility. I saw nothing that would lead me to believe that it isn't repeatable by any of the aforementioned jobs. idk it's debatable especially with /sch is getting you icestorm, but i dont think it can be done without the use of T5's but i suppose i'll concede the point.
Fenrir.Minjo
Server: Fenrir
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Posts: 1326
By Fenrir.Minjo 2011-11-21 17:52:56
Welp, I clearly don't have the credentials to participate in this discussion.
| 11-02-2011 04:45 PM | | Camate | | Community Rep |  |
| I know there has been a lot of discussion regarding Regen and Cure V around the forums, so I wanted to pass along feedback that we received from the dev. team that Mocchi posted up earlier today.
galay said: 1. Make it possible to cast Regen on alliance members
2. Make a scholar only high level Regen
3. Make abilities or traits which make it possible to use Regen strategically
I’d really like the above three things if you are going to work on scholar’s regen. Since they can use weather magic, it would be cool to change the effects of Regen based on the type of weather casted.
Aurorastorm + Regen: Enhances effect of Regen
Voidstorm + Regen: Increases effect duration of Regen
Firestorm + Regen: Regen + minor Regain
Rainstorm + Regen: Regen + minor Refresh
Sandstorm + Regen: Add half of the effect amount to your max HP
Windstorm + Regen: Regen + gradual reduction in attack delay
Hailstorm + Regen: Regen + gradual increase in magic critical hit rate
Thunderstorm + Regen: Regen + gradual increase in critical hit rate
I still feel like Cure V should be added too…
Is that reason that Cure V has not yet been added to scholar’s spell repertoire due to the fact that it making it an AoE would be too efficient?
Also, thanks a lot for your Regen effect suggestions. We will take them into consideration.
In regards to the topic on Cure V which has cropped up in various other threads, I would like to inform you of our current direction.
We are looking at two main points:
1. The HP recovery amount of Cure III and IV are too low, and it’s hard to keep up with healing
2. Making each job’s specialty stand out more
With the level cap being increase and HP/damage taken amounts increasing, we understand that HP recovery amounts are low; however, we feel that making it possible to have every job that can use cure able to handle things all on their own is a completely different story.
While it’s possible for other jobs to help out with curing and cast support magic, which in turn create conditions making it easier to cure and also reduce the amount of cure-related stress, the job we have designated to be the main healer is white mage. Due to this, we do not currently have any plans of allowing jobs other than white mage to use Cure V.
However, the solution isn’t to limit the functionality of those jobs that assist with curing. So one possibility we’re considering is increasing the influence of the healing skill and MND, as well as increasing the HP recovery amount more than it is currently.
We believe this would involve making adjustments to jobs that have healing skill to improve the amount of HP recovered, but due to the fact that we will also be implementing cure potency equipment, implementing this aspect is simply one issue under consideration.
With that said our goal is not to make it so a certain job’s advantages are given to other jobs so they are able to do the same thing, instead we would like to look into how we can keep each job’s specialties intact and create ways that they can support other jobs. |
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