[Dev] SCH - Regarding Cure V And Regen

personally i have just finished my cure pot set and im pretty happy with the numbers (720~ for cure 4) but i really dont think its really the potency of the cure that really bothers the high end sch, it's the fact that cure 4 drives up some excessive enmity and as it stands sch has some rather terrible enmity problems. Toss out an accensioned cure 4 and your enmity is more or less capped.


just putting that out there

even with tranquil heart?
are u using -enmity gear in ur cure4 set or full blow healing magic, potency and MND?

Just wanted to add to that that tranquil heart doesn't contribute to the -enmity cap and that it is added in after the equipment in the equation.

-40~ enmity

yah with Animus Minuo ur -enmity should be capped. Personally i havnt had that many problems with enmity in VW. I also use the Atmacite with -enmity.(ive heard from jp players it is calculated after the cap) i was having problems in VW when i nuked in full MAB gear. i added -enmity to that set too. that might help.

this is my VW process set.



I DID have problems when i used full MAB in my nukes in VW but ur just processing. the dd's and rng/cor can kill fine. i dunno maybe im just lucky then lol

Calling *** on knowledge of -enmity properties of atmacite, much less that it breaks the cap.

I havnt read anything on bg forums about it or bgwiki or jpwiki. im just saying what i heard on some jp players vw runs i did. whether its true i dunno. calm down bro. no need to get all testy

in any case fully upgraded Atmacite of Devotion makes a difference if ur not capping -enmity in gear and/or merits.

after reading all the pages on this thread , i don't think sch or rdm should get cure5, the game will be broken again like ToA era that rdm used to be main healer on every event, specially when you can get all bar and na /teleport spells as /whm sub with haste too (if sch main), i hope they buff sch and rdm a lot on lvl cap99, it bothers me how they programmed all nms to resist all enfeebling magic

well u can land slow2 and addle on most VW NMs... para2 is just kinda funky on landing on some stuff but thats a diff issues lol

Sorry, I didn't mean to absolutely flip out and tell you that what you were told probably wasn't true. I'll be sure to not fly off the handle again.

enmity is for sure one of sch main handicap. any time i have had to cure on a VW that did not go down quick (due to poor lights and the whole gay stagger system) i quickly got high up on the hate list. This actually comes up on either role, just nuking doesn't come up cuz it has been reduced to a stagger *** role. blm with douse and whm with cure 5 and 6 i wonder if this is meant to be another of our main limiting factor from SE's point of view. In either case with the regen change and the plans for cure changes there is little to be said as far as the main topic here goes until said stuff is implemented.

i think that the problem is with the plds, they cant do enough dmg to keep hate or enough stuff, i remember some vw that i did with a few bsts , the pets do take off the pld's hate very easy, i seen this problem a lot with good plds from my server

yah i just find it funny we get regen4 and regen5 in the same update... lol...hopefully they implement regen4 prior to the level cap.

well even when i go blm hate is an issue. one of our blms processes with opposite staffs and -enmity gear and after a while its just its quite funny.

the enmity problem is not only with sch, i seen whms dying a lot because tanker can't keep hate

That's not how enmity works. The PLD likely had capped hate, unfortunately so did the pets. Nothing the PLD can do about it at that point, it's the flawed enmity system.

I don't think any other MMOs use capped enmity, I may be wrong, but I'm an experienced tank in RIFT and I have never had the issue of reaching a hate cap and having DPS pull hate off of me by swinging their weapon one time because they were capped too.

Were u guys low manning it? i know off topic, but are BST useful in VW beyond process? curious here.

You've got to be pretty dumb to cap enmity as WHM.

Not trying to provoke an arguement, not trying to troll. Just trying to state the fact that scholars dont need as much work as some people may think.

I have a very good scholar in my shell, and never has he once complained about sch's uses. They are good at what they do, and they shouldnt surpass other that are designed to specifically do a said job (i.e whm and blm).

Sch's are already king of dot dmg with some crazy helix's, very capable of support healing and taking over from a whm in short periods of time (when whm is dead of out of mp) and they can also deal fast spike dmg like blm's.

what more do scholars want?

just fed up of people asking for more and more when they already got so much going for them.

umm personally id like SCH to be able to cast Death and 1 shot Qilin and have him drop both daggers for me and 1500 heavy metal plates but i doubt SE will do that.... lol

haha if only >.>, i only need 7500 plates, its ok though, i have a whole 24!

SE said something about december update

How it isn't blatantly apparent to all after nearly ten years that versatility is not useful in this game is astounding.

SCH's healing capabilities, while just barely suitable, aren't even remotely in leagues with WHM. SCH's damaging capabilities, while perfectly suitable, are just shy of(or arguably on par with) BLM's, while lacking immensely in the area of proc availability.

Its very much like RDM in that it can do several things reasonably well. Its also very much like RDM in the sense that we don't want people who can do things reasonably well when there are extraordinarily specialized jobs capable of doing substantially better.

Versatility is for the unprepared, and being prepared in this game is a matter of having a handful of simple, key jobs that are widely available. The job is poorly designed, and needs a metric *** of reform.

Honestly, SCH is one of my favorite jobs ever. What I really want is at least 20 more inventory spaces so I can cart around all the gear I need to play the way I want to.

The only thing I want is for the role to be DEFINED!

WHM is the best healer, sch should never surpass whm at healing. What they did with regen V is fine imo and I like their direction.

BLM is the best nuker. Sch may be able to do more than blm on a single nuke, but sch's nuking is more restricted than blms(Hate, casting time, etc). BLMs can dish out loads of damage extremely fast with little worry (mana wall, enmity douse), while SCHs deal their damage over time, with the occasional big nuke. Again I think this is a fine balance not much needs to be changed.

RDM is the best enfeebler. This is obvious. Although rdm loss a few of its unique enfeebles, so maybe this should be expanded upon. I believe rdm needs a look at by the dev team (it probably will get one soon).

Now I believe that SCH should be the best Enhancer. When Accession was released, an unprecedented boost to enhancing magic came into play. The storms also play a huge role in this as they greatly enhanced mages. I believe SE should continue this trend and add some of the stronger enhancing magics for sch. That way its role will be defined as the enhancer. For instance Faith and Bravery are long overdue. Although, Embrava can be called 11's bravery, although the 2hr restriction is kind of a let down. Faith would be nice because other mages would welcome and work together with sch.

Imo, the job of sch should be able to make other jobs do their jobs better. This includes all jobs. If you consider sch lore, SCHs were war stratedgists. It is there job to lead others, and give them support to do their job better. I really hope SE leans in this direction.

On another, note. The argument of who gets the spell Ultima, if it every is released has been thrown around alot on the official forums. IMO, it should take a combinations of jobs to pull off the end all be all spell. For instance, BLMs can only casting the spell Ultima if they are under the effect of Faith. Along the same idea, WHMs can only cast the spell White if they are under the effects of Faith and Aurastorm (II?). Faith could act as an "addendum" for mages, opening up new spells to them. etc. Well thats all I have. go go Wall-o-Text.

Edited for spelling and grammar errors.

@ Pebe

totally agree with your outline of the jobs

when sch was first introduced to the game, that was what i had pictured for it. with the ability to quickly buff people in any party, they let other jobs relax a little. I reckon faith and bravery would be a great addition.


As much as i agree with this, i also have to disagree. Sure enough being prepared in the game is much better than being unprepared, versatility however is not neccesarily being unprepared. This is extremely evident when lowmanning and you cant have every1 on a said job because there simply isnt enough people

Agree with so far

I don't agree with so much.

Let's look at WHM and SCH for a second and simply single target protect.

WHM is 'the' buffer in the game in my opinion. SE screwed up royally with giving other jobs our merited spells but they have done that in the past before. I think when group1/group2 refinements come along that they will fix this issue by either changing it to all protect/shell spells and giving whm protectra V / shellra V scrolls, or changing it to protectra VI and shellra VI.

What they should be focusing on is making it so a protect/shell/barspell can't overwrite a more powerful version that is already on the target. That is incredibly stupid and lazy of them.

Now this I agree with

Same here

Or like in the game intro video have multiple blm's come together. At least 2 blm's but the more you add the stronger it gets (up to 6).

How that would work out is beyond me, would have to be some dialog confirmation between members >.> then that become a problem with spam and what not.

As far as this game is concerned, "not enough people" involves having fewer than 4-5 able bodies. If that's the case, its time to make new friends, not rely on poorly designed jobs.

Once upon a time... Back in my day... 15 levels or so... and 8 something years ago (Old Geesers Memory is Fading) RDM used to have Cure V.

Not that this has anything to do with anything at all, just saying 15 levels ago, back in the day, once upon a time, 8ish years, rdm had cure 5.

let me guess, your still stuck in the world of abyssea?

ya if whm are capping that is some bad healers >.> i can understand blm due to recapping hate after douse (or having to use it for yet again gayness of procs) but whm should at best be the target only after everyone else is weakened lol

Another post above mentions "on par with blm", i will disagree on this as well. maybe on single nuke per nuke but fact is blm has about 3-4(tier 5 ga3 am2 and ja all still do relevant dmg) nukes per element + douse on top of mp availability. Sch had an edge at 75 but not anymore.

@pebe

sch indeed need a defined role, however when the enhancing spells they give us are so poor (1/tic regain, crappy enmity spells) they seem to be scared to go this route. the regen is about the only decent enhancing spell they have given us and it has yet to be implemented, and we have people here claiming sch doesn't need anything or getting angry we are being looked at lol. man do i wish they would toss a few more people to work on this game at least for a year!