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[Dev] SCH - Regarding Cure V and Regen
 Fenrir.Niniann
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2871
By Fenrir.Niniann 2011-11-10 14:07:13
The only reason I think anyone would want these jobs to have Cure V was if they wanted to stop using WHM's all together. Maybe to free up a spot for another DD or something idk, or maybe none of the members in that group enjoy playing whm and would rather be on RDM or SCH where they have more to do than just healing so they can multitask better.
Don't see why WHM is such a hard thing to come by where people want to ask for Cure V. Maybe they are on these jobs and have trouble trusting the current healer at doing their job (I get that way, it's sick but a lot of main whm's I know also have said they feel this way).
For me, I'd like to play SCH in group play sometimes for a change of pace. I understand SCH will never be as good of a healer as WHM and I'm totally okay with that, I just don't want to have my job change from WHM->SCH be the reason we wipe.
Obvious solution is to play with people who don't suck, but yeah.
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 Leviathan.Snakeslice
Server: Leviathan
Game: FFXI
Posts: 169
By Leviathan.Snakeslice 2011-11-10 14:09:34
I personally use my whm for nothing other than duoing with my friend and that is only if we have to have it. I despise the job because I find it boring, its just not my cup of tea. and as for cure V, I would be content with SEs rework of cure spells.
The thing that gets me is SE calls whm a main healing job and rdm a buff/debuffing class, then gives whm their unique cures but rdm loses almost all of their spells to other classes. Addle was given to whms, break was given to blms, most of their spells since 75 are just spells absorbed from other classes. Their only unique spells since 75 was temper and refresh II.
In all honesty I would be happy if SE would show rdm the same individuality that whm has. And *** for sch, I believe a good part of their individuality comes from their JAs tho I feel they could use a few spells as well and I completely disagree with the helix spells being given away.
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1060
By Lakshmi.Sirafiinikkusu 2011-11-10 14:12:00
They are giving SCH such an advantage with regen, seriously. They are most likely going to allow them to cast regen on all parties in the alliance from the recent dev postings to give SCH that edge. That speaks for itself. Yah they also said theyd be modifying the formulas for c3 and c4. As well as adjusting SCH's regain spell with equipment. Anyways SCH can already hit nice numbers on c4. I think some schs (rdms too) need to maybe work on better cure sets. Abyssea time is over. No more full-timing teal set ok?! Also no more light staffs. If ur serious about healing
1) Get a surya's +3 (it does not take long at all the worst part is the the bottled pixie part)
OR
2) invest in Tefnut's and genbu
My current cure set on sch. (Its not perfect and no luck on heka stupid greedy ahriman VWNM)
But i can hit 1.1~k with rapture and 600ish w/o good enough to keep peops alive and do other random things like regain, and process.
yeah im putting the finishing touches on the cure set i have, heka's are being a pain in my ***. you can easily hit 1k numbers on sch and hit about 700 without rapture. but i believe the big issue is the amount of hate that cure4 gives is what bothers some sch, i know thats a problem for me atleast, not so much the healing strength. Perhaps when they change the formula they will change the enmity values as well.
edit: btw i finally gave in and got my stupid *** obi's last night u.u that 80/80 inventory on sch is epic.
By Madifenrir 2011-11-10 14:16:29
So um... cure VI doesn't give whm enough of an edge in curing? If you look at ppl looking for healers atm, they WILL NOT settle for a rdm or sch. They can't keep up and if they try cure IV will get them killed cause of hate issues(even using enmity up and down spells i have taken hate). People will die, waste of a run. I personally haven't touched my sch in months cause it simple does not cut it as a job anymore. I was holding out, expecting us to get cure V, they could make it so its not an aoe spell, kinda like they did with haste/reraise/etc >.> From the looks of this, guess I'm lvling blm and and whm instead of touching sch again, afterall get pretty much all its benefits from being just a subjob now anyways. Way to keep things balanced SE!
Server: Siren
Game: FFXI
Posts: 411
By Siren.Mcclane 2011-11-10 14:22:57
So um... cure VI doesn't give whm enough of an edge in curing? If you look at ppl looking for healers atm, they WILL NOT settle for a rdm or sch. They can't keep up and if they try cure IV will get them killed cause of hate issues(even using enmity up and down spells i have taken hate). People will die, waste of a run. I personally haven't touched my sch in months cause it simple does not cut it as a job anymore. I was holding out, expecting us to get cure V, they could make it so its not an aoe spell, kinda like they did with haste/reraise/etc >.> From the looks of this, guess I'm lvling blm and and whm instead of touching sch again, afterall get pretty much all its benefits from being just a subjob now anyways. Way to keep things balanced SE!
How many times does it have to be said, Cure VI is abyssea only and should never be used in Voidwatch. It shouldn't be an argument for other jobs to get Cure V.
Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1060
By Lakshmi.Sirafiinikkusu 2011-11-10 14:23:22
whm doesnt really even need cure6.
and sch isnt in as bad a shape as you think it is.
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Bahamut.Cuelebra
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 778
By Bahamut.Cuelebra 2011-11-10 14:31:34
Lakshmi.Sirafiinikkusu said: »They are giving SCH such an advantage with regen, seriously. They are most likely going to allow them to cast regen on all parties in the alliance from the recent dev postings to give SCH that edge. That speaks for itself. Yah they also said theyd be modifying the formulas for c3 and c4. As well as adjusting SCH's regain spell with equipment. Anyways SCH can already hit nice numbers on c4. I think some schs (rdms too) need to maybe work on better cure sets. Abyssea time is over. No more full-timing teal set ok?! Also no more light staffs. If ur serious about healing
1) Get a surya's +3 (it does not take long at all the worst part is the the bottled pixie part)
OR
2) invest in Tefnut's and genbu
My current cure set on sch. (Its not perfect and no luck on heka stupid greedy ahriman VWNM)
But i can hit 1.1~k with rapture and 600ish w/o good enough to keep peops alive and do other random things like regain, and process.
yeah im putting the finishing touches on the cure set i have, heka's are being a pain in my ***. you can easily hit 1k numbers on sch and hit about 700 without rapture. but i believe the big issue is the amount of hate that cure4 gives is what bothers some sch, i know thats a problem for me atleast, not so much the healing strength. Perhaps when they change the formula they will change the enmity values as well.
edit: btw i finally gave in and got my stupid *** obi's last night u.u that 80/80 inventory on sch is epic.
I don't have an enmity problem often... just keep spamming Libra in voidwatch if ur both processing and curing... if ur enmity gets too high in voidwatch ur DDs probably are slacking on using temps. I sacrificed some MND for -enmity in my set purposely for that reason. (also MND doesnt contribute much to C4).
Atmacite of Devotion (-10 Enm MND+10)
-Enmity Merits capped (-5 enmity i think??)
-enmity gear in the cure set (-28 Enmity)
Full Time Augeos Minuo (-10 Enmity)
is what helps me personally in Voidwatch. Also apparently AtmaofDev allows u to go over -enm cap. May be a rumor im not sure.
Outside voidwatch.... Dyna i just AoE SS and AoE regen3. DD's never die.
Einehjar i personally hate as sch because of all the AoE based enfeebles (e.g. aoe slow, aoe attack down) mobs cast so i rather go whm.
By Madifenrir 2011-11-10 14:35:51
ok lets say we get a sch curing a tank in a party for lets say voidwatch, ur pld is getting his *** kicked, throw in a cure IV lets say for ur impressive healing of 1.1k now.. ur pld eats a big hit right after that, what do u do for the 8 seconds that ur waitin for ur cure IV to come back up? spam cure 2/3? could always regen him and pray :D
Fenrir.Niniann
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2871
By Fenrir.Niniann 2011-11-10 14:38:39
ok lets say we get a sch curing a tank in a party for lets say voidwatch, ur pld is getting his *** kicked, throw in a cure IV lets say for ur impressive healing of 1.1k now.. ur pld eats a big hit right after that, what do u do for the 8 seconds that ur waitin for ur cure IV to come back up? spam cure 2/3? could always regen him and pray :D
SCH can't mainheal high-tier Voidwatch period. :s
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Bahamut.Cuelebra
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 778
By Bahamut.Cuelebra 2011-11-10 14:41:53
ok lets say we get a sch curing a tank in a party for lets say voidwatch, ur pld is getting his *** kicked, throw in a cure IV lets say for ur impressive healing of 1.1k now.. ur pld eats a big hit right after that, what do u do for the 8 seconds that ur waitin for ur cure IV to come back up? spam cure 2/3? could always regen him and pray :D
8 seconds... are they subbing whm (EDIT no fast cast JT on /whm)? i think mine is at 4 seconds(EDIT with /rdm) i need to check. in any case. SCH shouldn't main heal tank party. sch should main heal process/dd party. HOWEVER there have been times our WHM has died for whatever reason and as a SCH i have NEVER had a problem keeping the PLD tank alive till the whm unweakened. Someone posted a very good generic VW alliance setup on another thread
tank:
WHM
BRDx2
PLDx2
SMN
DD/process
SCH
BLM
DDx3
DD/process
COR
BLU
DDx3
no one in this thread is suggesting replacing a whm with a sch for main healing the tank party. its a good temp or support healing job. stop trying to turn this into whm or blm VS sch thread damnit!
Server: Siren
Game: FFXI
Posts: 411
By Siren.Mcclane 2011-11-10 14:43:44
Are you trying to argue that SCH should be able to sub in for WHM no problem? I'm having trouble understanding exactly what you want SCH to do...
I'm not a SCH, but I'm pretty sure a SCH can handle a DD party in VW perfectly fine if everyone isn't HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE.
EDIT: Responce to Madifenrir. Sorry for the confusion :x
Bahamut.Cuelebra
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 778
By Bahamut.Cuelebra 2011-11-10 14:46:16
Are you trying to argue that SCH should be able to sub in for WHM no problem? I'm having trouble understanding exactly what you want SCH to do...
I'm not a SCH, but I'm pretty sure a SCH can handle a DD party in VW perfectly fine if everyone isn't HELP I AM TRAPPED IN 2006 PLEASE SEND A TIME MACHINE.
i edited it. was referring to fastcast job trait on support job choices. thank you.
By Madifenrir 2011-11-10 14:48:48
ok lets say we get a sch curing a tank in a party for lets say voidwatch, ur pld is getting his *** kicked, throw in a cure IV lets say for ur impressive healing of 1.1k now.. ur pld eats a big hit right after that, what do u do for the 8 seconds that ur waitin for ur cure IV to come back up? spam cure 2/3? could always regen him and pray :D
SCH can't mainheal high-tier Voidwatch period. :s
Am i the only who remembers pre-abyssea when everyone complained because no whms were available and rdms were being forced to cure stuff. BOOM they introduced sch, a job that could be flexible and stand in for these jobs that were not available. Now, u guys are saying schs just a support that ur sposed to add to a party in addition to brd/rdm?
Server: Siren
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By Siren.Mcclane 2011-11-10 14:51:08
Am i the only who remembers pre-abyssea when everyone complained because no whms were available and rdms were being forced to cure stuff. BOOM they introduced sch, a job that could be flexible and stand in for these jobs that were not available. Now, u guys are saying schs just a support that ur sposed to add to a party in addition to brd/rdm?
What do you want from SCH? A job that's as good as WHM at healing, as good as BLM at nuking, and a job as good as RDM at support?
That sounds balanced.
Fenrir.Niniann
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2871
By Fenrir.Niniann 2011-11-10 14:51:23
Am i the only who remembers pre-abyssea when everyone complained because no whms were available and rdms were being forced to cure stuff. BOOM they introduced sch, a job that could be flexible and stand in for these jobs that were not available. Now, u guys are saying schs just a support that ur sposed to add to a party in addition to brd/rdm?
SCH was never as good as RDM for anything besides maybe crowd control. They didn't have refresh, convert, haste.... etc. And yes, SCH is an addition to a party/alliance, it depends on the setup. It is not a "key" member unless you're participating in some type of Embrava zerg(ie Einherjar).
Server: Fenrir
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By Fenrir.Enternius 2011-11-10 14:52:47
I'd say SCH was better than RDM for everything except normal merit parties and chain-stun, personally.
Fenrir.Niniann
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2871
By Fenrir.Niniann 2011-11-10 14:53:09
I'd say SCH was better than RDM for everything except normal merit parties and chain-stun, personally.
... haste wru?
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Server: Lakshmi
Game: FFXI
Posts: 1060
By Lakshmi.Sirafiinikkusu 2011-11-10 14:54:14
you should have atleast 1 whm in the alliance anyways. you could probably switch out one of your extra whm for a sch though and it would still be about the same.
cure4 on sch is no were near 8 second recast, even in dark arts my cure4 has a 6 second recast and you would not main heal in dark arts.
im not saying sch can replace THE whm, im saying it can cover real nicely as a support healer and has 0 problem covering in case your whm died from a random hit.
i think the sch population needs to *** wake up as a whole, yeah there is some upsetting things but not getting cure5 is not the end of the *** world and a good sch should never have a trouble getting invited to a group as is.
Bahamut.Cuelebra
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 778
By Bahamut.Cuelebra 2011-11-10 14:55:00
I'd say SCH was better than RDM for everything except normal merit parties and chain-stun, personally.
thats when i brought my 2nd account as whm. and was autohasting them. AoE SS and aoeregen and ouitside haste whm was just the easiest mamool ja savages party hahaha
By Madifenrir 2011-11-10 14:55:23
SCH was never as good as RDM for anything besides maybe crowd control. They didn't have refresh, convert, haste.... etc. And yes, SCH is an addition to a party/alliance, it depends on the setup. It is not a "key" member unless you're participating in some type of Embrava zerg(ie Einherjar).
lol you ever hear of a ja called sublimation? than again if you knew anything about sch jas, you would know sch could not only keep up with rdm but surpass it in mp conservation. Yes sch never got haste but it could keep a party alive as main healer, could also participate in blm burns while holding its own.
Server: Lakshmi
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By Lakshmi.Sirafiinikkusu 2011-11-10 14:56:21
I'd say SCH was better than RDM for everything except normal merit parties and chain-stun, personally.
... haste wru? tell everyone to bring their oynos knives!
Server: Lakshmi
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Posts: 1060
By Lakshmi.Sirafiinikkusu 2011-11-10 14:57:03
SCH was never as good as RDM for anything besides maybe crowd control. They didn't have refresh, convert, haste.... etc. And yes, SCH is an addition to a party/alliance, it depends on the setup. It is not a "key" member unless you're participating in some type of Embrava zerg(ie Einherjar).
lol you ever hear of a ja called sublimation? than again if you knew anything about sch jas, you would know sch could not only keep up with rdm but surpass it in mp conservation. Yes sch never got haste but it could keep a party alive as main healer, could also participate in blm burns while holding its own. refresh 2 > sublimation
Server: Siren
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By Siren.Mcclane 2011-11-10 14:57:23
lol you ever hear of a ja called sublimation? than again if you knew anything about sch jas, you would know sch could not only keep up with rdm but surpass it in mp conservation. Yes sch never got haste but it could keep a party alive as main healer, could also participate in blm burns while holding its own.
lol you ever hear of a spell called haste? than again if you knew anything about haste, you would know haste could not only help with everything but surpass anything else. Yes rdm never got sublimation but it could keep a party alive as main healer, could also participate in blm burns while holding its own with refresh and convert.
[+]
Bahamut.Cuelebra
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 778
By Bahamut.Cuelebra 2011-11-10 14:57:48
SCH was never as good as RDM for anything besides maybe crowd control. They didn't have refresh, convert, haste.... etc. And yes, SCH is an addition to a party/alliance, it depends on the setup. It is not a "key" member unless you're participating in some type of Embrava zerg(ie Einherjar).
lol you ever hear of a ja called sublimation? than again if you knew anything about sch jas, you would know sch could not only keep up with rdm but surpass it in mp conservation. Yes sch never got haste but it could keep a party alive as main healer, could also participate in blm burns while holding its own.
yah sublimation is no joke anymore its some serious ***outside. sublimation from a 90 sch just totally laughs at refresh2 as far as being able to keep ur mp pool completely full.
By Madifenrir 2011-11-10 14:58:02
Lakshmi.Sirafiinikkusu said: »
i think the sch population needs to *** wake up as a whole, yeah there is some upsetting things but not getting cure5 is not the end of the *** world and a good sch should never have a trouble getting invited to a group as is.
Next time you see a shout for support healer get a screenie for me... 5 bucks says anytime you offer to heal as sch they gonna keep shouting till they desperate enough to settle for a sch.
Fenrir.Niniann
Server: Fenrir
Game: FFXI
Posts: 2871
By Fenrir.Niniann 2011-11-10 14:58:45
lol you ever hear of a ja called sublimation? than again if you knew anything about sch jas, you would know sch could not only keep up with rdm but surpass it in mp conservation. Yes sch never got haste but it could keep a party alive as main healer, could also participate in blm burns while holding its own.
Yes, SCH could main heal better than RDM, their MP was basically fine, they could do AoE nifty stuff, but to be quite honest, most events you only brought ONE mage. Which is why you brought RDM over WHM or SCH because they could do *** everything. If this is hard to understand, I don't know. If you're doing something like Dynamis or Einherjar, Scholar was a nice addition to the setup. That's it.
By Madifenrir 2011-11-10 14:59:17
Lakshmi.Sirafiinikkusu said: »
SCH was never as good as RDM for anything besides maybe crowd control. They didn't have refresh, convert, haste.... etc. And yes, SCH is an addition to a party/alliance, it depends on the setup. It is not a "key" member unless you're participating in some type of Embrava zerg(ie Einherjar).
lol you ever hear of a ja called sublimation? than again if you knew anything about sch jas, you would know sch could not only keep up with rdm but surpass it in mp conservation. Yes sch never got haste but it could keep a party alive as main healer, could also participate in blm burns while holding its own. refresh 2 > sublimation
btw we were talking post 80cap, else the whole haste argument seemed kinda pointless there
Server: Lakshmi
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By Lakshmi.Sirafiinikkusu 2011-11-10 14:59:20
Lakshmi.Sirafiinikkusu said: »
i think the sch population needs to *** wake up as a whole, yeah there is some upsetting things but not getting cure5 is not the end of the *** world and a good sch should never have a trouble getting invited to a group as is.
Next time you see a shout for support healer get a screenie for me... 5 bucks says anytime you offer to heal as sch they gonna keep shouting till they desperate enough to settle for a sch. idk about you but i get tells from people asking me to join their VW group, not the other way around.
edit: also if you are going to offer anything for healing, you should offer the package, sch is incredibly versatile that you can do so many things with it not just heal.
Bahamut.Cuelebra
Server: Bahamut
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Posts: 778
By Bahamut.Cuelebra 2011-11-10 15:00:37
lol you ever hear of a ja called sublimation? than again if you knew anything about sch jas, you would know sch could not only keep up with rdm but surpass it in mp conservation. Yes sch never got haste but it could keep a party alive as main healer, could also participate in blm burns while holding its own.
Yes, SCH could main heal better than RDM, their MP was basically fine, they could do AoE nifty stuff, but to be quite honest, most events you only brought ONE mage. Which is why you brought RDM over WHM or SCH because they could do *** everything. If this is hard to understand, I don't know. If you're doing something like Dynamis or Einherjar, Scholar was a nice addition to the setup. That's it.
question? no talk of haste2, if they do they are going to have to increase attack speed cap. sch/rdm IS getting haste next update, knock on wood. whats gonna be's RDM's uniqueness then? sch/whm already gets haste btw
Server: Lakshmi
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By Lakshmi.Sirafiinikkusu 2011-11-10 15:00:54
btw we were talking post 80cap, else the whole haste argument seemed kinda pointless there
yes
current refresh 2 > current sublimation
mathsayshi2u
| 11-02-2011 04:45 PM | | Camate | | Community Rep |  |
| I know there has been a lot of discussion regarding Regen and Cure V around the forums, so I wanted to pass along feedback that we received from the dev. team that Mocchi posted up earlier today.
galay said: 1. Make it possible to cast Regen on alliance members
2. Make a scholar only high level Regen
3. Make abilities or traits which make it possible to use Regen strategically
I’d really like the above three things if you are going to work on scholar’s regen. Since they can use weather magic, it would be cool to change the effects of Regen based on the type of weather casted.
Aurorastorm + Regen: Enhances effect of Regen
Voidstorm + Regen: Increases effect duration of Regen
Firestorm + Regen: Regen + minor Regain
Rainstorm + Regen: Regen + minor Refresh
Sandstorm + Regen: Add half of the effect amount to your max HP
Windstorm + Regen: Regen + gradual reduction in attack delay
Hailstorm + Regen: Regen + gradual increase in magic critical hit rate
Thunderstorm + Regen: Regen + gradual increase in critical hit rate
I still feel like Cure V should be added too…
Is that reason that Cure V has not yet been added to scholar’s spell repertoire due to the fact that it making it an AoE would be too efficient?
Also, thanks a lot for your Regen effect suggestions. We will take them into consideration.
In regards to the topic on Cure V which has cropped up in various other threads, I would like to inform you of our current direction.
We are looking at two main points:
1. The HP recovery amount of Cure III and IV are too low, and it’s hard to keep up with healing
2. Making each job’s specialty stand out more
With the level cap being increase and HP/damage taken amounts increasing, we understand that HP recovery amounts are low; however, we feel that making it possible to have every job that can use cure able to handle things all on their own is a completely different story.
While it’s possible for other jobs to help out with curing and cast support magic, which in turn create conditions making it easier to cure and also reduce the amount of cure-related stress, the job we have designated to be the main healer is white mage. Due to this, we do not currently have any plans of allowing jobs other than white mage to use Cure V.
However, the solution isn’t to limit the functionality of those jobs that assist with curing. So one possibility we’re considering is increasing the influence of the healing skill and MND, as well as increasing the HP recovery amount more than it is currently.
We believe this would involve making adjustments to jobs that have healing skill to improve the amount of HP recovered, but due to the fact that we will also be implementing cure potency equipment, implementing this aspect is simply one issue under consideration.
With that said our goal is not to make it so a certain job’s advantages are given to other jobs so they are able to do the same thing, instead we would like to look into how we can keep each job’s specialties intact and create ways that they can support other jobs. |
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