Knives

If you want to, one day I can solo you a Rapparee Harness. There is always headlong belt now. Not quite as good as swift but still very good.

I have Headlong, and I'd like to get that extra 1% If the chance I got tomorrow falls through, I'd appreciate Subligar help.

halt this is not true the latent effect only works when tp is 100% or less. When i have Blau in main hand my attack is 312 at 0% tp when i get 101%+ my attack goes down to 296. thats a 16 attack difference which is how much attack the latent effect gives. so you are incorrect the latent effect will not trigger if your tp is over 100%

No prob, no need to wait until the level cap comes off. I don't have BST gear anymore so it will be... interesting.

It triggers during Weapon Skill's no matter what. When you go over 100% you lose the latent and hidden effect, but you regain it during WS. It's common knowledge.

I'd copy and paste from Wiki again but Kojo already did earlier. It is the same on Onimaru and Maneater.

There's always Gaudy Harness :D

my mistake you indeed are correct

Not really. It will stay the same percentage as haste will affect attack speed by the same. However more DW will affect it more. Ie having acp body with it or suppa or DW III when we can finally get to um 90 I think? Either way somewhat situational.


Haven't done the math on this yet but the overall dmg assuming non-stop attacking for blau/azoth was very close to blau/sirocco until you added in the added effect. Which granted is normally alot. But say against birds is really low and against puks actually heals them...

What I don't like against blau... is mostly since I haven't had a pt since like lvl 65 alot of my work is solo and you will feed alot more tp with blau and ws will be a decent amount weaker since I'm capping acc and often capping ratio.

Do you mean between Azoth and Blau? Its a 2 damage vs. 16 attack difference, I don't see how it would be a decent amount weaker on a multihit like Dancing Edge.

Read the rest. I'm soloing mostly weak mobs. I'm capping ratio, so attack means ***. Also it's dmg with latent is only 2 away but fstr caps are found before latent so that's another 1 to base dmg there.

If you're soloing weak mobs the extra TP given would be offset by a larger DPS and noticeably faster kills wouldn't it? Assuming you arent fighting Puks...

Yes and no. Yes the tp gain normally won't matter too much except the saving money on utsesmi factor which does matter farming. Though for some mobs there tp attacks are so weak compared to there meleeing that feeding them tp is actually a good thing.

Having a bit of running time and such means differences in attack speed are less and initial hits and such are worth more. But that's really hard to really figure out math wise but means the DPS and tp gain aren't as far apart as would normally constantly fighting.

Also generally I actually offhand Mkris for the tp gain anyways. And for the fun factor.

Either way just saying Blau isn't a omg this is the best thing ever no matter what blah blah blah blah. It's very good yes.

That's what Mandau is for.

Yeah I wasn't suggesting that its the best of the best, just that it outperforms Azoth/Sirocco by a noticeable amount in a DD situation. I'm stuck with dumbass Thief's Knife when I'm farming anyway. I always /DNC to save on Utsusemi myself.

I don't really bother with thfs knife farming unless it's a mob that I have to wait for repops anyways. The increase it drop rate is so small compared to how much it kills your well kill rate. SE really needs to fix TH3/4 makes me rage taht people get so bent over have af2 gloves or not. OMG you can't be our thf cause you only TH3. We need that +1% that will most likely get rounded down squuuuuuuuuuuuuueeeee!!!!

I heard Mandau was a pretty good choice.

Back when I first leveled THF pre-ToAU, I used Corsair's/Lust. That +7 AGI is very noticeable, especially early on. However, subbing NIN on THF unless you're pulling is very out-dated, in which case I'd use a Corsair's.

I level sync'd on THF/WAR @60-ish a few months back with 8/8 dagger merits. With a hornetneedle/viking shield, I was pushing 1.2k DEs with little difficulty with a BRD in the party. I didn't notice much of a difference with Corsair's Knife.

I mentioned pre-ToAU because back then, daggers used to do weak *** damage, and you'd be lucky to hit for more than 0 on crabs to get TP.

EDIT: Off-handing a mkris is a terrible idea, especially on birds. Feeding mobs TP is awesome for your tank, true story.

Also THF should never even touch an Azoth. Not only is Harpe better, its also significantly cheaper. Any THF who uses Azoth should be shot.

Harpe
DMG:35 Delay:210

Azoth
DMG:35 Delay:210 AGI+4 Accuracy+4 Evasion+4

???

Fixed, and fixed.

Fixed? I wish I could bring in screenshots, but I reformatted my PC, and didn't save any of it.

Azoth is 34 base damage, btw as opposed to Harpe's 35.

I'd like to know why you think any THF should sub NIN in a exp party post 50 if they're not pulling.

EDIT: I also have a screenshot of doing a 1.3k SB with a hornetneedle on a Colibri at level 63 sync. It's posted on BG, gimme a sec to search for it.

I stand corrected. Then I guess the main argument would be pricing? Anyway, then Azoth is better if it has 35 base damage.

You've still yet to convince me as to why /NIN isn't outdated in a exp party if you're not pulling, post-50.

EDIT: Example of a Shark Bite that I did /WAR in a level sync. Dancing Edge was doing similar numbers when SATA and Hide were used. Also 8/8 dagger merits @ level 63, hence why I was able to use Shark Bite.



I know I said 1.2k :( my bad, 'twas 1.4k.

EDIT 2: Yes, that was with a Hornetneedle. I recall Blackdannon being on COR.

Buffs; SA TA + Hide, Berserk, Chaos Roll for certain (not sure of the other), and I'm pretty sure that was it. Also, I'm sure I was spamming meat.

I shitcock you not, I thought so too lol

Off the top of my head:

1) Faster TP gain rate. At least 20% faster assuming you use Suppanomimi. TP gain rate will get even faster with the addition of 99 cap, going up to 25% faster attack speed.

2) Extra hit on all WSs.

3) Higher DEX and AGI.

4) Shadows, of course.

5) Offhanding a Thief's Knife should you be farming.

6) Genin Earring, AGI+4.

I'm sure I'm missing things, but I don't play anymore and I'm not really too concerned with thinking about things that won't affect me.

/nin is stronger than /war if your buffs are reasonably high. /war is much better epeen and much better in situations where your Attack in particular is low, but for exp /nin is definitely the strongest sub, at least at merit levels.

1) Though to some extent this is true, the amount of damage you will put out /WAR will significantly out-do the amount of TP you gain if you were to /NIN, considering the speed at which you attack won't change that much. You're also forgetting DA is getting thrown into the mix, and with Brutal Earring, that's a 15% total increase from Double Attack alone iirc. Also, with Triple Attack merits, you're also looking at a 15% increase in that department. The only situation where I can think that /NIN will beat /WAR is if you have a Mandau or X's Knife, or both.

2) ? Extra hit doesn't mean ***when your weapon skills do more damage /WAR.

3) Not by much, therefore not enough to make a difference.

4) Shadows in a exp party. You shouldn't need them unless you're pulling.

5) I said exp party.

6) Genin earring won't take you as far as Brutal/Suppa would @75, for one. Though AGI+4 is very nice, it won't out-do the benefits you're getting from /WAR.

Also keep in mind I said post-50.

Your last statement. Basically you're just trying to save face by saying you don't play anymore and you "don't care" >.>;

@Raen; from my experience, /WAR has triumphed over /NIN on birds. I suck at math, so I can't really back up my info with numbers, just experience. However, I've read that /NIN is better depending on what weapons you have, which I explained in 1. Your average THF won't have those weapons, however, therefore /WAR is a more viable option.

Double Attack is only a 9% increase to TP gain and DoT with no merits on Triple Attack, and 8% with capped TA merits. And Brutal is less useful on THF/WAR than on THF/NIN, as it only gives about a 4% increase to DoT and TP gain. And with Berserk being only a 15% increase to Attack, which is generally useless if eating meat due to low weapon DMG, unless using a Mandau, Berserk can barely be considered a beneficial thing for THF.

DoT doesn't matter on THF. From my experience and several parses, with Blau/Sirocco being my main combo (like I've said before, I'm sure if you had an X's or a Mandau, /NIN would dominate) I didn't notice a TP gain difference at all vs. /WAR. However with /WAR, spike damage goes up a ***ton, and that is THF's main focus when it comes to dealing damage. Worrying about DoT is just silly.

Purely anecdotal here (I can do the math as well but am lazy), but at 73THF/NIN I was able to outDD a fully meritted 75 THF/WAR with good gear (worse weapons than me by a touch though; blau/misericorde and I had blau/sk) and decent playstyle. This proves little though since there are so little controlled elements.

You have a sexy cat THF which you plasticsurgeon out of a lot ;o if you try both on birdies, you should notice that /nin produces incredibly potent DoT but not the epeen numbers of /war. Attacking twice sometimes with higher Attack is great, but it is very hard to match the speed increase and second dagger of /nin unless your Attack is tiny.

EDIT: Have you parsed THF? I don't mean this in a condescending way since you know I like you, but the DoT output is MUCH higher than it appears. I'll dig up the parses I always use for this point...

Blahblah, don't take these parses literally because a lot of factors weren't ideal. How I did compared to other DDs isn't important, just look at the DoT:WS split.

Limbus (the floor where the mobs are immune to one type of weapon - used Justice Sword at one point, hence low accuracy).


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