Time Signatures - Musicians And Tool Fans Help!

Sorry for yet another question linked to cubase. Im doing a project and because of my "influences" and "research" im doing it in an odd time signature for extra marks, however i had no clue how to go about writing a song in an odd time signature.

In cubase you can change the beat and bars to whatever time signature you want, which should help however i still just feel like im writing it the same as in 4/4. Any tips or wisdom?

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm.... You understand the basic time signatures like 2/4, 2/2, and 4/4, right?

Top value = # of beats per measure
_
Bottom value = value of each beat

There's a lot of confusing time signatures out there, my group just plays mostly the basic common ones, 4/4, 6/8, 12/8 etc. Some harder time signatures to understand are like, 5/4 and 7/4. If you listen to the band "Dream Theater", a lot of their music (mostly solos) are in in unusual or complex time signatures. Look them up!

Let's say write your song in 5/8. There's a popular "Star Trek" song that you can write in 5/8, I'd have to look it up. But the conductor will conduct 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 (Down, left, right, right, up) for each measure. While you play that, keep in mind that your eighth notes get the beat. If you really want to impress your teacher, switch between like 5/8 and 5/4, then for good measure throw a 5/16 in there haha. Just remember the values! Any more questions just PM me.

harro again.

Odd time signatures are hard to get your head around, especially now due to the fact most music you listen to is generally written in 4/4. The other issue is cubase quantises your music which doesn't help when trying to create music in an odd time signature.

The best way to practice creating music in odd time signatures is to create rhythmic patterns through percussion ect. Its all about getting your head around things, like writing reggae music, the kick drum is on the 3rd beat of the bar.

You see X/8 rhythmic patterns are very similar to that of the X/4, for the simple reason that ones a quaver and ones a crotchet which is double the length of the quaver.

I'd suggest something maybe on the triplet line to start you on the road from moving away from 4/4. 6/8 maybe.

GL

(ninja just noticed i put 6/9 insteada 6/8)

thanks for the very helpful replies, i do find that sitting listening to the clicker beeping thing on cubase when its on different time signatures helps alot, it spreads the beats out through the bar. I am recording bass first, so im trying to write this on bass and just input the other instruments via midi after. What confuses me, is if its say a time sig of 6/9, thats 6 beats but does that mean im only alowed to play 6 notes on my bass in the space of a /9 and can i play them anywhere within the /9?

Ps: I do listen and love DT :P and thanks again for help!

Edit: yeh i ment 6/8 ><

In 6/8 it means that in one measure you can fit a total of 6 beats and the 6 beats are 1/8 of a note or eighth notes. So, one measure fits 6 eighth notes. This doesn't mean that you can only have 6 notes in the entire measure because eighth notes can be broken down or built up into whatever you want. (ex. two of the same eighth notes when combined will make one quarter note, and an eighth note broken in half will make two 16th notes.)

edit: A 'note' would be considered a whole note. In basic 4/4 time you have 4 beats with 1/4 note a.k.a a quarter note. When dealing with time signatures the second number usually tells you how to break down a whole note.

Thank you very much, i didnt actually know that, and i wish my musicc teachers just told me like that when they explained it. It all makes sense now, although will still take alot of thinking power :P

6/8 is also a duple meter, meaning there are two 'pulses.' Not only is it 6 8th notes, it's 3 8th notes counted twice.

Hmmm. Sometimes troubles with meter can be eased by forcing yourself to subdivide each beat while you're playing back what you've written... in your head. Subdividing (usually into eighth notes, but sometimes into sixteenth notes too) is what performers are taught to intuit so they can play together precisely.

Having a "feel" for rhythms and how they fit together is a hard thing to teach. Practice helps, but to some extent a person either has a natural aptitude for it or they don't.

tunes that aren't in 4/4:

5/4 = Take Five, Dave Brubeck

6/8 = Crazy, Patsy Cline (Willie Nelson) - a fast 6/8, almost feels like it's "in 2"

3/4 = Amazing Grace, traditional <.<

Selkies: The enddless obcession in is 7/8, and they also switch from 7/8 to 6/8 in the 2nd part of the intro

if you want to write things that arent in a standard time signature, you can do what i did

pick 4 numbers, and rearrange notes to fit the order of numbers :-D
stupid little things like that helped me break the usual 4/4, 3/4

I.E. 4, 3, 2, 1 =5/4 the way we play it

enjoy!

Cannot overstate the importance of this. If you're not constantly feeling at least one subdivision below the meter as you play/write, you're not going to groove and without a groove established it's very difficult to write in odd meters. I don't know if your writing style is typically top-down (melody then accompaniment) or bottom-up (bass/chords then fill in specific notes and the melodic lines), but I've always had trouble writing in odd meters unless I wrote the piece from the bottom up because my melodies often lapse into more common meters if they aren't held to the beat.

A great example of the significance of subdividing in your head is Windowpane, by Opeth. The opening (and any segment with that figure) is a relaxed 12/8, but the verse shifts to a faster 4/4. There's a figure at 3:54 that plays with the beat (implied groupings of 3 eighth notes), but it's still in 4 until those groupings become the beat at 4:43 - we're back in 12/8 (albeit very vaguely - the percussion gives it away). Cue the opening figure after the solo, then 4/4 for the rest of the piece.

You'd get lost if you didn't know the piece inside out or follow the drums very closely right? Well... no. Throughout all of that, the eighth note never changes. Their groupings and thus the overall bar and time signature do, but the duration of an eighth note is constant throughout the piece. It's almost impossible to get lost in the changes when playing that piece so long as you subdivide constantly.
It is in two :P /nitpick

I listen to alot of music with odd time signatures, i mean, my 3 fav bands are Tool, Opeth and Dream theater. I guess this makes me alittle dissapointed in myself that i dont understand it more.

I think i understand up until subdividing, but i sort of get it. Pretty much all of it i THINK i understand but may get it wrong.

Maybe ill try recording bits and ill get it for you guys to listen to and you could give me pointers on what is ACTUALLY is or what i need to do to it :P

Ps: Love windowpane, and well all opeth. @Nightfyre, whos in your avatar? I always wonder.

Mike Sullivan of Russian Circles. By far my favorite band. Need a lot more practice before I can write or play as well as any of my influences though =\

i just looked them up, have listened to two songs and already considering buying an album, any advice on which one to get? (first?)

Im not ussually this persuaded upon first listen :o

Nice XD You really can't go wrong with any of them, but my personal favorite is Station.

Why does god hate me. I cant get my midi keyboard working on my new comp which would help a ton and not to mention a waste of money if i can't. So after a while i check the discs that came with it to see if theres any drivers and crap to install even though its supposed to be a plug in and go thing.



It says, This version of Windows is NOT supported!
PLEASE CLOSE APPLICATION



Does this mean im screwed?

Edit: screw that, found new stuff on website for it, got it working :D