Hagun....?

thats fine, triumph and brutal is perfectly fine if you chose and different dm earring. if you dont mind lots of macros switch out triumph for fowling when your tp'ing and then switch back for ws.

Yeah that was my next question... if it was fine to TP on Fowling Earring.
Guess it is then! Thanks for the inputs!

I'm currently at 8 if I didn't have bushi i'd kill myself. 6 in 1 macro 2 in ws macro.

Head neck body hands ring1 waist legs feet

if I add one more thing like tiphia sting for tp I'd have 2 tp and ws macros lol that'd be FML.



But yea to recap bushi = life saver.

On xbox I swapped 12. 2 Full macros for TP 2 for WS.

Yes, you can TP in it unless you have(Assuming Brutal is other ear) Hollow, Bushi or some earring with more then 3 acc.

Disjointed ideas from a career SAM.

Polearm vs GKT: The other thing to consider is the level of accuracy you can get with Polearm vs GKT. You can reach, fully merited 304 GKT skill where polearm fully merited you can reach 263. That is significant accuracy.

Furthermore, you will likely not be using the same TP sets for Polearm as you would with a GKT. This is due to sTP calculation for various delays.

Hagun vs Onimaru vs Ushikirimaru vs Rindomaru:
Onimaru is fine but if you are going to career this (full merits, expansion gear, etc) you will be constantly outparsed by any of these other three GKT and a number of other DD which are skilled. Rindomaru can have some interesting options, but I haven't played extensively with them. I think there are some good times to use them though. Ushi, if you have it, and don't believe in Hagun, well fair enough. I personally won't argue the effectiveness as it has been before. It can keep up in short battles. Hagun is for the fulltime sam. With AF2 hands and AF head you can meditate with full merits every 2.5 min. During that time you will hit 2-3 times gaining at least 40 tp. This is 200 tp meaning a 300 TP Yukikazi, Gekko or Kasha which can be big damage. Add in that all of your 100TP WS will count at 200 (.3125 modifier difference) which is nice.

Honestly, if the sam hasn't capped polearm skill, has a love torque or PCC, and enough sTP for Tomoe or Engetsuto (none of the other Polearms we can use really allow for a competitive 5 hit if I recall) it is wiser that if they are merited/geared as a normal sam to use a Hagun. Mind you I have gone head to head with a Tomoe sam specced for Polearm and was able to only be 8ish% behind them.

I always thought onimaru outparsed ushi?

Would like to see how ushi beats it.

But yes in the end the GK order goes amano > fitsuno > hagun.

Mostly comparing on 100tp WS spam. I have seen extremely well geared sam (full usukane style, with pieces of hachiryu, etc) with onimaru beat the average geared Ushi user but the two of them, are very close.

I likely misspoke and would have been better saying the two parse very similarly.

Just pointing out a danger with using parses to see how "close" you are to someone;

If you have 4 DDs and their parses look like

DD1: 25%
DD2: 10%
DD3: 30%
DD4: 35%

and I asked you how much more damage DD4 did than DD3, the answer is not 5%! It is 16.7%. You can see this more clearly if you use an example with actual numbers;

DD1: 2500 damage
DD2: 1000 damage
DD3: 3000 damage
DD4: 3500 damage

How much more damage did DD1 do compared to DD2? It's not 15%! It's 250%.

Just pointing that out~ the 8% depending on how many DDs were in your party could be a big deal.

fixed etc~

Anything besides the 20acc, and pleasing sephiroth fanboys, make Amano great?

All the Kaiten I've seen suck. Does the Stp from it really make something awesome happen?

Amanomurakumo is great because Tachi:Kaiten (And all relic weaponskills) have a Light or Darkness skillchain element. That is to say, if you did Kaiten >> Kaiten, that would make light. And Kaiten >> Kaiten >> Kaiten >> Kaiten would make 3 lights, each one increasing in damage by 25%. And the sTP gained by the aftermath effect very much lets you do so.

While Kaiten (And this goes for almost every relic WS) is not good on its own, it has special traits that make it better. Go ahead and ask the same about Apocalypse.

I think there's still a bug with Kaiten that causes it to be *** awful on high-level monsters as well, though I'm not sure if that was ever adjusted. I think not since SE tends not to touch relics, but that might explain all the butt-class Kaitens you've seen.

Kaiten needs a completely different gear set than Y/G/K, is the thing. It's very highly Attack-modified, which is why it tends to suck more on HNM etc. Also why Amano SAMs use Byrnie+1 and the like over pure STR for Kaiten.

Kaiten take a considerably different gear set to G/Y/K and not all SAMs understand that.

Kaiten has a larger fTP mod but no Attack boost
G/Y/K has a larger attack boost but low fTP (@ 100TP)

They are about as different as 2 single hit WS get.

Kaiten is much more buff/food sensitive, than any other WS SAM has, which means a lot of SAMs don't gear/eat/buff accordingly.

With suitable support Kaiten can get close to Gekko's average and the sTP allows for an incredibly fast (low delay and high haste build) 6hit build. A Anamo SAM is more about WS rate than pure WS damage.

Marking mystery as solved; thanks, Argett. I remember Rukenshin talking about that "back in the day" but always thought they were separate issues, but that makes sense. I don't think anyone explicitly knew about the attack boost on YGK that long ago.

Suuuure, thank Argettio, when I not only said it first, but I said it in...uh...Paragraph form too!

Yeah "back in the day" people just knew relic WS need more attack than 'normal' WS, but never knew why.

Now we do know why and can be a little more exact about how to gear for Kaiten, but nothing much has changed.

That's very true, and unfortunately this entire thread reminds me that I never got any kind of confirmation that my Nomad Bronanza application went through. lol

Twice in one night! I'll chalk it up to unconsciously being spiteful about dhalmel spam over the weekend.

My bonanza went through, but i missed the part where i pick numbers... 00000 ftl

Bullet points > Paragraphs :P

So a Kaiten set like this:


Wouldn't be good enough to make Kaiten shine?

I know it takes a different gear set; the people with amano know that. I'm still not impressed with Kaiten.

That's pretty much the ideal Kaiten build. You might want to use the Moogle hat but that's about it.

Like I said, its not about the Kaiten damage, its about the number of Kaitens.

From the delay alone, Amano is 2.8% faster to 100TP

Also D75 vs D88 is a ~17% increase in DoT, so is faster to 100TP, and does more damage getting to 100TP but does less damage during WS.

So Amano changes the way SAM works, skewing the TP:WS ratio when compared to a hagun SAM. More damage per hit, faster hits, more WS, but weaker WS.

if it ain't broke don't fix it.

lol you're still on that ***