Shurikens?

yeah i know they're hella exspensive and hard to find, but would it actually be a good option to use if you actually care to waste the gil? A- skill + HIGH damage LOW delay shurikens?? Hate control shouldn't really even be an issue?

If you have the throwing skill, and the gil to do so, defo do it. They offer some great hate needed for nins.

yeah i figured. i'm gonna shuriken burn my nin from 37-40 i think. just want other peoples opinion....

I used shurikens alot getting nin to 37. Worked great. In fact IMO it worked alot better than using the wheel to get/keep hate.

It's not really an opinion. It's a fact that a NIN with a good Ranged setup and plenty of Koga Shurikens will kick *** as a DD. And since Throwing's sweet spot is in melee range, there's no downside.

Granted, Koga Shurikens are very rare.

I was a throwing nin all the way up. I never even bothered with the elemental wheel. It's amazing for hate.

I did it right around that level spread as well, before Ni spells hit and kept them on hand afterwards as well "just in case". With proper Racc gear they're actually really nice and helped me maintain hate really dependably on NIN without needing spectacular gear. No idea how they'd fair Lv50+ or how much worse the gilsink becomes at that point, but for 30-40 I'd definitely say go for it to anyone willing.

Well to put it in perspective, Koga Shurikens (The best ones) are 10k or so each on my server, very rare, and only stack to 12. That's 120k for 12 attacks. Granted, they have the DPS of two Relic weapons combined so it might be worth it. Shame you can't keep your shurikens though.

I don't suppose Ninjer gets any dependable or considerable form of recycle do they? I haven't stayed up on new items from updates in monthsss.

Actually Koga Shuriken stack in 99s. However they are only obtained thru the ashu talif quests so makes them hard to get. THere is no price history on ramuh. The next best thing that isn't rare is Fuma Shuriken. These are the ones that stack in 12s. Cost about 100k a stack mostly cause well it takes a gold ingot and like another 10k of materials to craft and HQ3 is still only 12 and it is only a T1 craft. Oh NQ is only 3 so yeah alot of the time it will cost you 10k per 1 to make. Manji Shuriken are still decent. I mean they have almost 20dps still. And only cost 50k a stack (99). Also the only recycle nin get's as far as I know is Frugal Cape which is a pretty low activation rate.

I was just about to post this exactly.

If you're incredibly rich, as Dasva indicated, Fuma Shurikens are awesome. Koga Shuriken is the highest DoT in the game by a long way, followed closely by Fuma and Manji in 2nd and 3rd. Koga is too rare to be viable to use on anything other than AV or PW pretty much (or some random high level HNM just for shits and giggles). Fuma are stupidly expensive (~10k a throw as mentioned above), so that pretty much leaves Manji as the only real viable option. Still expensive, but insanely high DoT regardless of being the lowest of the three.

in other words.... ninja is the most exspensive job in the game to play right. which is what good players should do anyway, play your job to the best of its ability.

who the hell uses an ichi wheel to keep hate? I didn't think anyone in their right mind used an ichi wheel to slowga keep hate.....

at 75 they're not as spectacular as they were leveling because of availability like everyone mentions. though, if you unlock sange you have a very powerful attack every few min. and swapping ammo from something like bomblet <> shuriken won't cost you your tp. the other reason is that maxing out your speed build with added buffs will bring your total melee DoT above what you would get out of viable shuriken during merit level events (a lot of ppl tend to forget that nin excel at increasing their melee attack frequency at 75 while there's almost nothing that can be done about their ranged attack speed and it can close/surpass the gap pretty easily).

for leveling they're nearly impossible to beat, considering you have close to maxed skill and some decent racc+ratk gear, as a nin they're your best option for damage. the only problem you encounter is that you gotta be on the ball with shadow counting and your timing 'cause you can't cast and throw (obviously, lol).

well NIN is suppose to be a DD not a tank...elemental wheel(especially elementals) and ranged shuriken(even though i have never see a nin use it) should be awesome.....but like you said....is expensive as it is....like some people do....just shihei nin
Edit: when lvling to 75 ^

i did Ichi wheel when i was lvling nin(to 37) in pt....for fast cap of ninjutsu skill(before lvl sync was introduced).....then used elemental: ichi when i SC for MB just for the fun of it lol

Even the basic "Shuriken" (lv22?) hit for very solid damage, and they are far cheaper than the others listed. I did a BC with a NIN once that fired the first attack with Sange and hit for some ridiculous number, then immediately recast Ni before the mob could close on him.

This is a video I put together awhile ago before I had any good Ranged gear or even really knew about RA's Sweet spot. However it does show a little bit of how much DMG sange can do with very gimp gear and not in range.



Also NIN/WAR can solo BCNM60 "Wild Wild Whiskers" VERY easy by spamming Manji Shurikens, I've done it for myself MANY times and for friends/LS mates even more.

I didn't realise Sange worked like that, I thought it threw your shadows themselves for a ranged attack, not actual ammo. In that case getting your hands on 5 Koga Shuriken would be pretty awesome sauce.

Yeah, Ninja gets hosed pretty hard when it comes to ranged attack. SE keeps saying they want nin to be played more as a dd, and even introduced Inin to help, but they fail to realize that one of the easiest ways to make nin an effective dd is to make shurikens more accessible. It would have been great if they would have introduced an inexpensive recipe in synergy to produce good dps shurikens. Can you imagine if rangers had to pay 10k per arrow for demon arrows? How many rangers would we have out there. As far as im concerned SE might as well remove shurikens from the game. They are essentially pointless as it is now.

Oh, a ranged weapon skill would be nice too, and some sort of ability like unlimited shot so that it would be worth my time to get a couple high lvl shurikens.

I've always thought there should be Throwing Weapon Skills

i did the same lol. i would cast one ichi to lower resistance to the MB start sc then magic burst with the 2nd ichi

They also do the all popular piercing damage.

The lack of a Throwing WS is from way back like 6 years ago before the ranged weapon patch when RNG would stand up close to a mob and melee for extra TP. SE was afraid that Ninja could do the same thing. It seems SE is deathly afraid of allowing you to TP with one weapon then WS with another. For instance TP with very fast katanas then WS with an 88 damage Koga.

EDIT: The math in this post is incorrect. See my post on page 2.

One thing that should be noted: throwing DPS is basically static, whereas your DPS from katanas is higher than advertised due to DW and Haste. The only Snapshot you can get is on the head and body slots (read: can't be merited like on RNG), and you don't have Rapid Shot unless you /RNG. So it's very possible your katana DPS is stronger than your shuriken DPS with sufficient buffs. Less true in EXP due to less available Haste, obviously.

EDIT: Senj + Perdu with Suppa but not AF body:

((38+32)*60)/(227+190)=10.07 damage/second

10.07/(1-.35)=15.5 damage/second

Fuma Shuriken have a DPS of 22.5

22.5/15.5=1.452

So basically if you have 46% Haste or higher, Katanas will do more damage on mobs not weak to piercing. Manji Shuriken it's only 27% Haste. Add in AF body and the numbers are 34 and 18 Haste, somewhere in between if you use the ACC/DW Mirke. The numbers are obviously higher if you have Snapshot gear, but you get my point.

Finally, you have to stay on top of hitting that RA macro if you want the advertised DPS of shurikens... if you're even slightly late their DPS decreases and katanas need even less to pull even.

you forgot to add in double attack, but the point is already pretty apparent that katana will beat shuriken dps when the build is maximized at 75. even going for a shuriken build /war's going to give the bigger advantage due to berzerk and nin's access to racc/skill gear.

the advantage a certain food gives to katana over shuriken is also quite large for merit level situations as you can get close to capped acc for tping with a substantial increase in atk through pizza (considering you build for it, otherwise you're normally limited to sushi making food less of an argument). where any food focused on ranged damage isn't going to be quite as great, also forcing you to lose out on acc or atk for your WSs which will still be a noticeable part of your overall damage.

the other big limiting factor of shuriken is the limitation of the amount you can carry because of SE's failure to let shuriken be bagged. you can very quickly burn through a full stack faster than rangers will go through arrows or bolts in most damage related cases, and even with all the options to increase your inv. size, it's easy to see that 12 stacks takes up much more space than 1 stack of bags.

even saying all of that, sange deserves much more credit than most ppl give it for being able to deal a nice bit of damage every so often. there's almost no reason not to unlock it if you're trying sponge every possible drop of damage you can out of the job.

Actually nin gets alot of racc/ratt/skill gear. Some of it's peices are really good. Such as Nin. Tekko +1, War Shinobi Gi +1 even lol Hurling Belt becomes good.

Also while DW helps them attack faster it lowers tp quite a bit too. And since you are already at point blank range the small delay between shots your melee timer is still going too.

Supposedly Innin works for ranged attacks too. Also as far as food goes you really shouldn't need racc food. So you can go and get the good ratt/att foods and still ws fine.

the delay values at this point should be enough to hit the range where you start to receive dramatic increases in tp gain from additional decreases in delay if I remember right.

even going full out on acc for WS gear you're going to barely hit cap for half of the merit level event mobs. nin's racc isn't really going to be much of an issue, that's true, but you're not going to be able to rely on melee damage (outside of WSs) for such a build (even having spellcast handle gear it's going to be nearly impossible to get acc gear on to register in between throws).

I love using shuriken, especially after 60, when I can equip af hands. Using those, plus the hurling belt and the other typical racc, I have better acc than using katana. I'm actually skilling up smithing solely for the purpose of making shuriken (but then again, nin is my favorite job). Juji shuriken will provide damage that is just a little more than you can do with katana until you get up 70+, but yeah, after that, I'm going to have to get smithing seriously high to make manji. If anyone plans on being a "career nin" or using it as their "main," I would definitely suggest investing the time in throwing in order to maximize damage and tp gain.

It's not that hard switching beteen melee and ranged gear. I do it right now on rng without spellcast. Will it get harder with more haste and more gear to swap? Yes. In fact would probably have to move to windower maccros or spellcast. Still doable though

And really if you have trouble hitting merit mobs in ws without acc food perhaps it's best you look at your ws gear again. I mean you can hit +47 and 6 dex with just head/body/neck with peices that are there for dmg. And that's with just easy to get stuff I mean if we threw hachiryu in there and such lol. As far as tping... well it's not like nin doesn't have alot of acc avaiable to it... oh wait it does. Even some of it's haste gives acc or dex. Not like not capping is as hurtful since you are primarily doing ranged dmg and just getting some melee hits in when you can't throw again

Also to note 1 sec is 110 delay for ranged and 60 for melee so the dps values given on here are way off. Like it states manji is 19.69 but is really more like 36.