Fairy.Vegetto said:
I was going to say that, but if he's wrong, when he's dead, he'll just be dead. He'll never know.
Regulate Religion, Not Guns.
Regulate Religion, Not Guns.
Unless there is an afterlife and he just believed in the wrong one ^^
Remora.Narrubia said:
Seraph.Caiyuo said:
Ragnarok.Anye said:
As a biological sciences major, I find it incredibly funny people who haven't even delved into the deeper end of the pool of scientific theories and research still make it a point that "religious people are stupid and avoid scientific fact." I actually know several doctorate-level people who are religious whose lives are completely devoted to their research and church, and don't remain ignorant to either.
Seraph.Caiyuo said:
I'm inclined to agree with you anyway mostly because I like your avatar.
@ the Scientology comment:I don't even know what they're all about except for 4chan trollin em all the time and what I hear of them taking ppl's money
Ifrit.Kungfuhustle said:
Cerberus.Katarzyna said:
Hi. My name is Kat. I'm Pagan. Nice to meet you.
I don't tell Christians how to celebrate their holidays, or when. I'm simply stating the idiocy behind "I buy gifts for Christmas, but only cause it's commercialized lulz"
And the joke's on all you if you thought for a second I was a Christian. Retards...
I don't tell Christians how to celebrate their holidays, or when. I'm simply stating the idiocy behind "I buy gifts for Christmas, but only cause it's commercialized lulz"
And the joke's on all you if you thought for a second I was a Christian. Retards...
Hi Kat, my name is Kung, and I'm a Catholic.
I still say Merry Christmas, I like to drink, have pre-marital sex, and I don't trust anyone :)
And Merry Christmas to you.
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Nope, still here. No one struck me down with lightning. Being tolerant is cool. Some people should try it.
I celebrate Christmas, even though I know it's not Christs birthday.
You know it was a Pagan festival before they decided to have Christmas at the same time, right?
To me Christmas is about family, enjoying the time with family and friends. I think it's a really cool time it even brings together people that would otherwise not talk to eachother.
You know it was a Pagan festival before they decided to have Christmas at the same time, right?
To me Christmas is about family, enjoying the time with family and friends. I think it's a really cool time it even brings together people that would otherwise not talk to eachother.
Fairy.Vegetto said:
@ the Scientology comment:I don't even know what they're all about except for 4chan trollin em all the time and what I hear of them taking ppl's money
Odin.Equivocator said:
I celebrate Christmas, even though I know it's not Christs birthday.
You know it was a Pagan festival before they decided to have Christmas at the same time, right?
To me Christmas is about family, enjoying the time with family and friends. I think it's a really cool time it even brings together people that would otherwise not talk to eachother.
You know it was a Pagan festival before they decided to have Christmas at the same time, right?
To me Christmas is about family, enjoying the time with family and friends. I think it's a really cool time it even brings together people that would otherwise not talk to eachother.
Well that's same as Halloween. It's a pagan holiday, we all go get candy, drink, eat, and are together.
Odin.Equivocator said:
I celebrate Christmas, even though I know it's not Christs birthday.
You know it was a Pagan festival before they decided to have Christmas at the same time, right?
To me Christmas is about family, enjoying the time with family and friends. I think it's a really cool time it even brings together people that would otherwise not talk to eachother.
You know it was a Pagan festival before they decided to have Christmas at the same time, right?
To me Christmas is about family, enjoying the time with family and friends. I think it's a really cool time it even brings together people that would otherwise not talk to eachother.
Yes, I'm well aware. As I said before, I don't tell Christians how or when to celebrate their holidays.
Remora.Narrubia said:
Seraph.Caiyuo said:
I'm inclined to agree with you anyway mostly because I like your avatar.
Cerberus.Katarzyna said:
Yes, I'm well aware. As I said before, I don't tell Christians how or when to celebrate their holidays.
Gilgamesh.Alyria said:
Well that's same as Halloween. It's a pagan holiday, we all go get candy, drink, eat, and are together.
Halloween is just starting to take off in Australia, this year we had 2 groups of kids come to our house and I knew of 1 party.
I cant wait till it comes into full swing and all the Slutty-Nurse, Slutty-Vampire and Slutty-<Insert Costume here> parties start happening!
Odin.Equivocator said:
Gilgamesh.Alyria said:
Well that's same as Halloween. It's a pagan holiday, we all go get candy, drink, eat, and are together.
Halloween is just starting to take off in Australia, this year we had 2 groups of kids come to our house and I knew of 1 party.
I cant wait till it comes into full swing and all the Slutty-Nurse, Slutty-Vampire and Slutty-<Insert Costume here> parties start happening!
That's the spirit! I explained what Halloween is to a friend of mine in China.
Ramuh.Dasva said:
Cerberus.Katarzyna said:
Yes, I'm well aware. As I said before, I don't tell Christians how or when to celebrate their holidays.
I don't hold grudges of ***that's happened before I was born.
People who never experienced WWII need to stfu, because they weren't there, and the people that were are dying off now. They are the only voice that matters.
Black people who *** about slavery need to stfu, because they weren't around back then.
And Pagans needs to stfu about the "burning times" because they weren't around back then either.
Seraph.Caiyuo said:
Remora.Narrubia said:
Seraph.Caiyuo said:
I'm inclined to agree with you anyway mostly because I like your avatar.
Bah can't find an image of the actual Divine intervention card for it but this game...
Cerberus.Katarzyna said:
Ramuh.Dasva said:
Cerberus.Katarzyna said:
Yes, I'm well aware. As I said before, I don't tell Christians how or when to celebrate their holidays.
I don't hold grudges of ***that's happened before I was born.
People who never experienced WWII need to stfu, because they weren't there, and the people that were are dying off now. They are the only voice that matters.
Black people who *** about slavery need to stfu, because they weren't around back then.
And Pagans needs to stfu about the "burning times" because they weren't around back then either.
I agree with most of what you're saying but saying that "blacks who *** about slavery need to stfu" assumes you think that mistreatment of African Americans ended with slavery, and if you read just about any American History textbook you'll see that's not the case. Do not be fooled racism still exists.
I could say more but it seems like people are having fun with the religious debate so I won't make it into a racial one :P
I will say this though. The United States IS a Christian Nation, it was founded on those values. That being said Christianity is ingrained in our culture. If you don't believe me look at all those dollar bills we toil over everyday. "In God we trust." Another example is the pledge of allegiance they taught us to sing everyday in elementary school which explicitly states that we are a nation "under God." I can understand why people who are atheist and agnostic feel they have to defend themselves, they are the minority after all.
Ramuh.Dasva said:
Fairy.Vegetto said:
@ the Scientology comment:I don't even know what they're all about except for 4chan trollin em all the time and what I hear of them taking ppl's money
Still doesnt sound as crazy as mormanism...
Seraph.Caiyuo said:
Ragnarok.Anye said:
As a biological sciences major, I find it incredibly funny people who haven't even delved into the deeper end of the pool of scientific theories and research still make it a point that "religious people are stupid and avoid scientific fact." I actually know several doctorate-level people who are religious whose lives are completely devoted to their research and church, and don't remain ignorant to either.
Pandemonium.Vavaud said:
Ramuh.Dasva said:
Fairy.Vegetto said:
@ the Scientology comment:I don't even know what they're all about except for 4chan trollin em all the time and what I hear of them taking ppl's money
This is in reference to this post, so I don't have to break the intarwebz by posting longgggasssss quooooooootes. :o
I'm not quite following you here, are you saying that I've justified only the church/Nazis/crusaders? If so, I intended to cover pretty much anyone who has claimed to act "in the name of God" and yet acted contradictory to biblical teaching.
Yeah, I know. But one of the Hebraic titles for God is "I AM"--not that he said "My name is I AM, nice to meet you!" but that he is the essence of existence.
Alright, dammit,I'll do it. >_< Don't get mad at me, this is a little involved.
Also, to make a little note, the Hebrew language is inherently ambiguously specific. XD OXYMORON! Thing is, you sort of have one word with different yet relevant meanings, as well as different words with one general meaning, yet each word is used with precision and care because of the different connotations to be read within the context. Stupidly awesome languages are like that. Like Chinese, for example--geeeeesh. But Hebrew sure takes the cake among the languages I've casually looked into.
The English translation in Genesis 1:26-27 (NIV) is:The first bolded word in the original Hebrew text is the word, "na'aseh" meaning, generally, "to accomplish." The second word is interesting: "vaiyivra"--"to create."
Now the second part referenced in Genesis 2:7 (NIV):
First word: "vaiyitzer" is a more specific form of the verb, "to make or create" and is closer to the verb "to fashion" or "to shape" as a potter shapes his clay. In fact, so specific is the meaning of this verb that it goes even deeper to even say that it was given a purpose--Again, like how a potter will make a bowl for the purpose that it should BE a bowl.
The next two parts are incredibly interesting, and it's hard to break it down.... I'll try to be organized.
I was making a point that not every piece of evidence of the history of this Earth has been discovered, nor does evidence drawn from various sources clearly state in big letters, "DIS IZ WUT HAPUND. SRSLY." Not only do you have to interpret and analyze the data, (take biostatistics one day; a lot of the time you have to match your data to a "standard normal curve model" or other models, and THEN you have to determine whether you've made one of two types of errors: Type I error is error is denying a true statement/event, and Type II error is accepting a false statement/event) but you also have to make sure that you're collecting your data from the same source. Have you ever looked at stratigraphy? What if you unknowingly collected samples from two different strata? Your data would be really *** up, but you'd think you'd made an important discovery. Also, speaking of stratification, the strata aren't even constant, either. Now we're talking about atmospheric and climatic effects ON the geologic.
TEELDERRRR: We can't say FO SHIZZLE what really happened: data can be unavoidably corrupted due to the knowledge we currently lack.
Have you seen a phylogenetic tree?
The whole basis of evolution is that you allow for mutation and dramatic genetic change over time, allowing for an even larger representation of the picture above. it's like 5 to the 1,000,000 power--an extreme exaggeration, but it illustrates my point. I'm not saying there were only two animals on board, I'm just saying there were significantly fewer species on the face of the earth than there is now, allowing for the possibility of them to have fit on a boat. With their swim trunks. And flippy-floppies.
Even if he knows what we're ultimately going to choose, that choice still lies within our own control. Also, it says in the Bible in 1 Timothy 2:4 that "[God] wants all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of truth." God loves that which he creates, but he cannot go beyond his essence of justice, therefore in an act of love he sacrifices himself as a sinless being to take on that wrath of justice, and reach out to those who seek to love him.
Also, I've already mentioned that Hell isn't "/smackdown" or torture--it's getting what you want: a place in the presence of or void of God and his love. Again, to someone who has looked forward their entire Christian life to be with someone they love, they would consider it the utmost pain to spend eternity without God.
-edit- ***, longer than I'd expected. Sorry >_<
Ramuh.Dasva said:
Right not everyone. But we aren't talking about isolated groups here. These are entire nations doing it.
Ramuh.Dasva said:
And yet one of arguments by Christians is well who created whatever was first blah blah...
Ramuh.Dasva said:
Not exact repititions. More like order. 1 says they both happened the other says Adam then Eve.
Also, to make a little note, the Hebrew language is inherently ambiguously specific. XD OXYMORON! Thing is, you sort of have one word with different yet relevant meanings, as well as different words with one general meaning, yet each word is used with precision and care because of the different connotations to be read within the context. Stupidly awesome languages are like that. Like Chinese, for example--geeeeesh. But Hebrew sure takes the cake among the languages I've casually looked into.
The English translation in Genesis 1:26-27 (NIV) is:
Quote:
Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.
So God created man in his own image,
in the image of God he created him;
male and female he created them."
So God created man in his own image,
in the image of God he created him;
male and female he created them."
Now the second part referenced in Genesis 2:7 (NIV):
Quote:
the LORD God formed the man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.
First word: "vaiyitzer" is a more specific form of the verb, "to make or create" and is closer to the verb "to fashion" or "to shape" as a potter shapes his clay. In fact, so specific is the meaning of this verb that it goes even deeper to even say that it was given a purpose--Again, like how a potter will make a bowl for the purpose that it should BE a bowl.
The next two parts are incredibly interesting, and it's hard to break it down.... I'll try to be organized.
"breath" and "being" are modified by the same root verbs, as noted by the italics. So it's "living breath" and "living being," essentially. The Hebraic root of "living" is "Chay," which simply states the fact that both the "breath" ("nishmat", lit. "breath," as in "gasping for breath") and the "being" ("lenefesh," lit. a "breathing creature") are alive.
"became" is the same root ("Hayah") for the word used for the other name of God "I AM"--"Ehyeh" being the imperfect tense, or a "continuous" tense; Ehyeh is "I shall continue to be." So man "be'd" or came into existence the moment "living breath" made the body formed of dust "living being."
Ramuh.Dasva said:
It might mess up exact numbers and all but having stuff from the same region being older is still older even if the number is wrong. As far as dramatic geological/atomespheric/climate changes it is highly unlikely that we don't know about any especailly as recent as the supposed few thousand years Christians claim we've been around. Turns out all that stuff leaves evidence. Hell it is how we've gotten alot of our knowledge on more severe weather/climates that we haven't experienced since we've been able to adequately record it.
TEELDERRRR: We can't say FO SHIZZLE what really happened: data can be unavoidably corrupted due to the knowledge we currently lack.
Ramuh.Dasva said:
So if creation does exist what's to stop it from being where everything came from? Also we know that evolution doesn't take place on the kind of time scale allowed by the either Christian or scientific reckoning of time. Neither puts our civilization at the ablity to build any decent kind of boat more than a few thousand years ago. I doubt enough new species of diseases have evolved in that time period to fit the animals that couldn't put on the boat compared to what we have today. And as far as actually animals with much much longer lifespans go there is barely enough evolution in the last few thousand years to have even made a hyphosesis on (let alone prove) about evolution and even then generally only in remote isolated places.
The whole basis of evolution is that you allow for mutation and dramatic genetic change over time, allowing for an even larger representation of the picture above. it's like 5 to the 1,000,000 power--an extreme exaggeration, but it illustrates my point. I'm not saying there were only two animals on board, I'm just saying there were significantly fewer species on the face of the earth than there is now, allowing for the possibility of them to have fit on a boat. With their swim trunks. And flippy-floppies.
Ramuh.Dasva said:
Where is the justice or love creating something a certain way knowing how it will behave and act and still blaming it and saying hahha your choice /smackdown? For that matter where is the choice? If everything is known beforehand for a certainity that implicitly implies it can not be any different. As such there is no choice. We will all act exactly as has been deteremined way before we were born.
Also, I've already mentioned that Hell isn't "/smackdown" or torture--it's getting what you want: a place in the presence of or void of God and his love. Again, to someone who has looked forward their entire Christian life to be with someone they love, they would consider it the utmost pain to spend eternity without God.
-edit- ***, longer than I'd expected. Sorry >_<
Carbuncle.Gilder said:
I agree with most of what you're saying but saying that "blacks who *** about slavery need to stfu" assumes you think that mistreatment of African Americans ended with slavery, and if you read just about any American History textbook you'll see that's not the case. Do not be fooled racism still exists.
Of course racism exists. It will never die off until we are all one color. But people act like black people are the only victims of racism. Brown people, yellow people, white people, blue people, green people, red people, and the purple people eater are victims too.
There is currently no "mistreatment" going on. Look at our president. In case you have forgotten, he's black. The majority of the country thought that he could run this country better than his white opponent.
My grandparents came to America with absolutely nothing. They were WWII refugees. They had no home, no jobs, no money, and no education. Now, they own 3 homes. They aren't rich like Paris Hilton, but they made smart investments. They came into this country with nothing. Explain to me how in their lifetime they can turn around a life of poverty and make a life for their future generations, but other people can't?
This "mistreatment" you speak of sounds like the typical Affirmative Action crap of "whitey is keepin us down!"
If black people are treated so poorly in America, nothing is stopping them from hopping a boat or a plane and going back to Africa. Until then, they can stfu about slavery.
Carbuncle.Gilder said:
The United States IS a Christian Nation, it was founded on those values. That being said Christianity is ingrained in our culture. If you don't believe me look at all those dollar bills we toil over everyday. "In God we trust." Another example is the pledge of allegiance they taught us to sing everyday in elementary school which explicitly states that we are a nation "under God." I can understand why people who are atheist and agnostic feel they have to defend themselves, they are the minority after all.
Dude... I'm an Australian and even I know that the founding fathers of America wanted to keep the church out of their state. And that "Under god" stuff was actually added later.
[+]
Carbuncle.Gilder said:
Cerberus.Katarzyna said:
Ramuh.Dasva said:
Cerberus.Katarzyna said:
Yes, I'm well aware. As I said before, I don't tell Christians how or when to celebrate their holidays.
I don't hold grudges of ***that's happened before I was born.
People who never experienced WWII need to stfu, because they weren't there, and the people that were are dying off now. They are the only voice that matters.
Black people who *** about slavery need to stfu, because they weren't around back then.
And Pagans needs to stfu about the "burning times" because they weren't around back then either.
I agree with most of what you're saying but saying that "blacks who *** about slavery need to stfu" assumes you think that mistreatment of African Americans ended with slavery, and if you read just about any American History textbook you'll see that's not the case. Do not be fooled racism still exists.
I could say more but it seems like people are having fun with the religious debate so I won't make it into a racial one :P
I will say this though. The United States IS a Christian Nation, it was founded on those values. That being said Christianity is ingrained in our culture. If you don't believe me look at all those dollar bills we toil over everyday. "In God we trust." Another example is the pledge of allegiance they taught us to sing everyday in elementary school which explicitly states that we are a nation "under God." I can understand why people who are atheist and agnostic feel they have to defend themselves, they are the minority after all.
Ragnarok.Anye said:
This is in reference to this post, so I don't have to break the intarwebz by posting longgggasssss quooooooootes. :o ===== I'm not quite following you here, are you saying that I've justified only the church/Nazis/crusaders? If so, I intended to cover pretty much anyone who has claimed to act "in the name of God" and yet acted contradictory to biblical teaching. =====
Ramuh.Dasva said:
Right not everyone. But we aren't talking about isolated groups here. These are entire nations doing it.
Ragnarok.Anye said:
Ramuh.Dasva said:
And yet one of arguments by Christians is well who created whatever was first blah blah...
Ragnarok.Anye said:
Ramuh.Dasva said:
Not exact repititions. More like order. 1 says they both happened the other says Adam then Eve.
Quote:
Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground. So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them."
Quote:
the LORD God formed the man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.
"breath" and "being" are modified by the same root verbs, as noted by the italics. So it's "living breath" and "living being," essentially. The Hebraic root of "living" is "Chay," which simply states the fact that both the "breath" ("nishmat", lit. "breath," as in "gasping for breath") and the "being" ("lenefesh," lit. a "breathing creature") are alive.
"became" is the same root ("Hayah") for the word used for the other name of God "I AM"--"Ehyeh" being the imperfect tense, or a "continuous" tense; Ehyeh is "I shall continue to be." So man "be'd" or came into existence the moment "living breath" made the body formed of dust "living being."
Ragnarok.Anye said:
Ramuh.Dasva said:
It might mess up exact numbers and all but having stuff from the same region being older is still older even if the number is wrong. As far as dramatic geological/atomespheric/climate changes it is highly unlikely that we don't know about any especailly as recent as the supposed few thousand years Christians claim we've been around. Turns out all that stuff leaves evidence. Hell it is how we've gotten alot of our knowledge on more severe weather/climates that we haven't experienced since we've been able to adequately record it.
Sure when in doubt just deny things. Assume people *** everything up and its all wrong. But random people writing down a story of god way back when didn't mess anything up? Tell me what exactly would you count as proof then? Or will you really just find a way to always deny it?
Ragnarok.Anye said:
Ramuh.Dasva said:
So if creation does exist what's to stop it from being where everything came from? Also we know that evolution doesn't take place on the kind of time scale allowed by the either Christian or scientific reckoning of time. Neither puts our civilization at the ablity to build any decent kind of boat more than a few thousand years ago. I doubt enough new species of diseases have evolved in that time period to fit the animals that couldn't put on the boat compared to what we have today. And as far as actually animals with much much longer lifespans go there is barely enough evolution in the last few thousand years to have even made a hyphosesis on (let alone prove) about evolution and even then generally only in remote isolated places.
The whole basis of evolution is that you allow for mutation and dramatic genetic change over time, allowing for an even larger representation of the picture above. it's like 5 to the 1,000,000 power--an extreme exaggeration, but it illustrates my point. I'm not saying there were only two animals on board, I'm just saying there were significantly fewer species on the face of the earth than there is now, allowing for the possibility of them to have fit on a boat. With their swim trunks. And flippy-floppies. ===== Ragnarok.Anye said:
Ramuh.Dasva said:
Where is the justice or love creating something a certain way knowing how it will behave and act and still blaming it and saying hahha your choice /smackdown? For that matter where is the choice? If everything is known beforehand for a certainity that implicitly implies it can not be any different. As such there is no choice. We will all act exactly as has been deteremined way before we were born.
Again if everything is 100% known before hand it cannot be changed. If you cannot act differently than what is already known that is not having a choice. That is without even having god in the picture. Put in someone who made us a certain way knowing what would happen and made things in a way to ensure that and that makes it even more obvious there is no choice. As far as the interuptation of hell... yours is a somewhat unique view. I don't know how many times I've been told in person or on TV that I am gunna burn in a firey lake of brimstone and ash... damn TV evangelist get really worked up on that part.
I don't think you read anything I said O_o; I didn't even mention the words "isolated people" in any of my posts....
Ragnarok.Anye said:
I don't think you read anything I said O_o; I didn't even mention the words "isolated people" in any of my posts....
Ragnarok.Anye said:
Referring to the church/Nazis/crusaders--not everyone who proclaims they work in the name of God actually DO the will of God. Remember that people will do anything, such as take advantage of a "good name," in order to achieve extremely selfish means. Exactly what you said, "Nice way to follow your religion"--it wasn't, nor do I see a lot of Christians who act in the name of God do so. However, that is not to say that there aren't those who don't try to follow Biblical teaching
This makes it kinda seem like you are saying only those guys who aren't really following god. It's just those guys ignore them they aren't really us or our religion. The fact is though most those people were using the name of god and were in fact thinking they were following it.
It's like being in the military. Every friday we get lectured not to do something stupid cause we were in the military and as such are representatives of it even if we are off work in civilian attire. Now imagine if one of us actually did something while on the job in uniform... there would be a huge ***storm. If it wasn't covered up
Ragnarok.Anye said:
Referring to the church/Nazis/crusaders--not everyone who proclaims they work in the name of God actually DO the will of God. Remember that people will do anything, such as take advantage of a "good name," in order to achieve extremely selfish means. Exactly what you said, "Nice way to follow your religion"--it wasn't, nor do I see a lot of Christians who act in the name of God do so. However, that is not to say that there aren't those who don't try to follow Biblical teaching
Cerberus.Katarzyna said:
Nope, still here. No one struck me down with lightning.
I'm sorry. I have to interrupt you.
That's Zeus.
God doesn't strike you down in life even if you are full of blasphemy. He just makes you suffer for eternity in the afterlife.
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