|
|
Regulate Religion, Not Guns.
 Pandemonium.Aravol
Server: Pandemonium
Game: FFXI
Posts: 475
By Pandemonium.Aravol 2009-12-03 11:43:18
Pandemonium.Aravol said: Fairy.Vegetto said: Bahamut.Stanflame said: Fairy.Vegetto said: "Why does it offend you when I pray to my god?" It doesn't, but that doesn't mean I have to acknowledge whoever your god may be and believe it or not, some people get pissed because of that. "What effect does that have on you and your normal every day life?" If you pray, nothing. If you're going out of your way trying to convert me, it does have an effect. All depends on what you do with your beliefs, not the beliefs themselves. "It doesn't bother me that you don't belive the same as I do. Why does it bother you so much?" Maybe not to you personally, but there are some out there that do. I don't have a problem with people who believe in something, but I do have a problem with people trying to push those beliefs onto myself, ect. How stupid will you feel if you find out god exists? None whatsoever. If he wanted everyone to just up and believe him, then he should have came and proven his existence. Would be his own fault for people not believing in him. It is alot deeper than showing and proving to people that God exists by him having a global conference call. If he did then everyone would shape up and "believe". To remain in word of the bible and people trying to communicate the issue would mean more dont you think. People who refuse to beleive and rebuke God dont really deserve his presence in the first place. This way, our true character comes out and we dont live a lie. Just my opinion. Everyone deserves to be saved but the choice is up to them. That is where the difference comes in play.
If you have 2 kids one who dont listen to u and one who does are you going to justly reward them both? i wouldnt.
Pandemonium.Aravol
Server: Pandemonium
Game: FFXI
Posts: 475
By Pandemonium.Aravol 2009-12-03 11:45:56
Fairy.Vegetto said: Asura.Korpg said: Why do people expect answers of the unknown, without having to do any research or effort to know the unknown themselves? If you're referring to me, I don't expect anything, because it's fake. For your sake, you better hope you are right. Just a thought.
 Ramuh.Dasva
Server: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 40469
By Ramuh.Dasva 2009-12-03 11:48:26
Sylph.Beelshamen said: Wouldn't be much of a thing called "faith" if he came down and announced himself eh? No but then you can't really be mad if we don't just take it randomly on faith then. Takes a bit of the choice out of it
Server: Remora
Game: FFXI
Posts: 129
By Remora.Narrubia 2009-12-03 11:48:56
Ragnarok.Anye said: Seraph.Bulleta said: 5. Fossil records clearly show that there was life on Earth before humans. There's also a few errors in carbon dating, if you're not aware. Referring to this article in wikipedia, Radiocarbon dating - The need for calibration, Wikipedia said: A raw BP date cannot be used directly as a calendar date, because the level of atmospheric 14C has not been strictly constant during the span of time that can be radiocarbon dated. The level is affected by variations in the cosmic ray intensity which is in turn affected by variations in the earth's magnetosphere. In addition, there are substantial reservoirs of carbon in organic matter, the ocean, ocean sediments (see methane hydrate), and sedimentary rocks. Changes in the Earth's climate can affect the carbon flows between these reservoirs and the atmosphere, leading to changes in the atmosphere's 14C fraction. In short, the Earth's state, surrounding atmosphere, and climate have not been constant. Scientists have to make up for it using various methods. It is entirely possible that there are many instances of dramatic geological, atmospheric, and climatic changes that they are completely unaware of. However, this could be wrong as there is no way to concretely prove either argument right or wrong. Unless you were there. I'm not sure if this kind of information is really sufficient evidence to bring up any kind of reasonable uncertainty that there wasn't life before humans:
If I'm reading this graph correctly, then there is about a 1000 year error ratio in carbon analysis for every 7000 years old the carbon actually is. Even if the calibrated trend is exponential, the difference in carbon-dated time between the first evidence of life ( 2.5 to 4.0 billion years ago) and the first evidence of human life ( 200,000 years ago) is significant enough to say with certainty that there was life before humans.
Asura.Korpg
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 7782
By Asura.Korpg 2009-12-03 11:49:13
Fairy.Vegetto said: Asura.Korpg said: Why do people expect answers of the unknown, without having to do any research or effort to know the unknown themselves? If you're referring to me, I don't expect anything, because it's fake. not everything is about you.
But I don't believe you when you said "I don't expect anything" because you do, by the threads you create.
Ramuh.Dasva
Server: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 40469
By Ramuh.Dasva 2009-12-03 11:49:31
Pandemonium.Aravol said: Everyone deserves to be saved but the choice is up to them. That is where the difference comes in play. If you have 2 kids one who dont listen to u and one who does are you going to justly reward them both? i wouldnt. If I was an absentee parent and left those kids off in the wild to fend for themselves and never let them know I could even actually exist? And randomly expected them to listen to my words that I never actually told them? Yes yes I would.
Server: Fairy
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3615
By Fairy.Vegetto 2009-12-03 11:49:36
Pandemonium.Aravol said: Pandemonium.Aravol said: Fairy.Vegetto said: Bahamut.Stanflame said: Fairy.Vegetto said: "Why does it offend you when I pray to my god?" It doesn't, but that doesn't mean I have to acknowledge whoever your god may be and believe it or not, some people get pissed because of that. "What effect does that have on you and your normal every day life?" If you pray, nothing. If you're going out of your way trying to convert me, it does have an effect. All depends on what you do with your beliefs, not the beliefs themselves. "It doesn't bother me that you don't belive the same as I do. Why does it bother you so much?" Maybe not to you personally, but there are some out there that do. I don't have a problem with people who believe in something, but I do have a problem with people trying to push those beliefs onto myself, ect. How stupid will you feel if you find out god exists? None whatsoever. If he wanted everyone to just up and believe him, then he should have came and proven his existence. Would be his own fault for people not believing in him. It is alot deeper than showing and proving to people that God exists by him having a global conference call. If he did then everyone would shape up and "believe". To remain in word of the bible and people trying to communicate the issue would mean more dont you think. People who refuse to beleive and rebuke God dont really deserve his presence in the first place. This way, our true character comes out and we dont live a lie. Just my opinion. Everyone deserves to be saved but the choice is up to them. That is where the difference comes in play.
If you have 2 kids one who dont listen to u and one who does are you going to justly reward them both? i wouldnt. That's totally different.
For example, you tell both kids to behave. One does, one doesn't. You don't reward them both.
If you're not even going to tell your kid to do the right thing though, then that's just bad parenting. You don't expect your kids to just up and behave w/o telling them to.
Server: Fairy
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3615
By Fairy.Vegetto 2009-12-03 11:50:41
Asura.Korpg said: Fairy.Vegetto said: Asura.Korpg said: Why do people expect answers of the unknown, without having to do any research or effort to know the unknown themselves? If you're referring to me, I don't expect anything, because it's fake. not everything is about you.
I never said it was.
Asura.Korpg
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 7782
By Asura.Korpg 2009-12-03 11:52:22
Fairy.Vegetto said: Asura.Korpg said: Fairy.Vegetto said: Asura.Korpg said: Why do people expect answers of the unknown, without having to do any research or effort to know the unknown themselves? If you're referring to me, I don't expect anything, because it's fake. not everything is about you. I never said it was. bolded for your own reference.
Server: Sylph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3663
By Sylph.Beelshamen 2009-12-03 11:54:07
Fairy.Vegetto said: I don't expect anything, because it's fake.
You don't know that. If you don't expect anything it's probably out of the reasoning that you don't believe it's real. It doesn't mean that makes it fake.
Server: Fairy
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3615
By Fairy.Vegetto 2009-12-03 11:54:09
Asura.Korpg said: Fairy.Vegetto said: Asura.Korpg said: Fairy.Vegetto said: Asura.Korpg said: Why do people expect answers of the unknown, without having to do any research or effort to know the unknown themselves? you're referring to me, I don't expect anything, because it's fake. not everything is about you. I never said it was. bolded for your own reference.
Bolded the correct part for you.
Server: Fairy
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3615
By Fairy.Vegetto 2009-12-03 11:56:36
Sylph.Beelshamen said: Fairy.Vegetto said: I don't expect anything, because it's fake.
You don't know that. If you don't expect anything it's probably out of the reasoning that you don't believe it's real. It doesn't mean that makes it fake. While we may disagree to whether it's real or fake, it's undeniable that it's just a theory. Nothing is set is stone or has been proven as fact.
Pandemonium.Aravol
Server: Pandemonium
Game: FFXI
Posts: 475
By Pandemonium.Aravol 2009-12-03 11:57:37
Fairy.Vegetto said: Pandemonium.Aravol said: Pandemonium.Aravol said: Fairy.Vegetto said: Bahamut.Stanflame said: Fairy.Vegetto said: "Why does it offend you when I pray to my god?" It doesn't, but that doesn't mean I have to acknowledge whoever your god may be and believe it or not, some people get pissed because of that. "What effect does that have on you and your normal every day life?" If you pray, nothing. If you're going out of your way trying to convert me, it does have an effect. All depends on what you do with your beliefs, not the beliefs themselves. "It doesn't bother me that you don't belive the same as I do. Why does it bother you so much?" Maybe not to you personally, but there are some out there that do. I don't have a problem with people who believe in something, but I do have a problem with people trying to push those beliefs onto myself, ect. How stupid will you feel if you find out god exists? None whatsoever. If he wanted everyone to just up and believe him, then he should have came and proven his existence. Would be his own fault for people not believing in him. It is alot deeper than showing and proving to people that God exists by him having a global conference call. If he did then everyone would shape up and "believe". To remain in word of the bible and people trying to communicate the issue would mean more dont you think. People who refuse to beleive and rebuke God dont really deserve his presence in the first place. This way, our true character comes out and we dont live a lie. Just my opinion. Everyone deserves to be saved but the choice is up to them. That is where the difference comes in play. If you have 2 kids one who dont listen to u and one who does are you going to justly reward them both? i wouldnt. That's totally different. For example, you tell both kids to behave. One does, one doesn't. You don't reward them both. If you're not even going to tell your kid to do the right thing though, then that's just bad parenting. You don't expect your kids to just up and behave w/o telling them to. I agree with that. I also agree God tells us everyday, we just dont listen. We feel the only proof of existance is a visual and powerful display of strength for a God to exist.
I keep an open mind and show no judgement at all on anyones view and i know this thread is never going to change any of our minds.
As long as we can keep this discussion on an intelligent level we can all learn something, myself included.
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6173
By Bahamut.Stanflame 2009-12-03 11:58:46
Seraph.Bulleta said: Bahamut.Stanflame said: Shiva.Xellith said: evolution just makes sense.
The world being 4000 years old and people being made by a mythical creature like the toothfairy is not.
Oh I was looking at this, whom ever said the world was four thousands years old? I am a Christian and even I do not believe this, unless it could possibly be and there is some explanation?
Ayne even stated issue's with carbon dating it can be anything to cause this, imagine something being charred and stuff from a Meteorite. and changes in the Environment , etc.
But like I said earth does not look like it is 4000 year's old but does this disprove, god?
Well...
Since the bible says that god created the world long after the world was already here....
maybe god created the world or is a spirit of some sort? or each planet has it's own spirit and this god is it...?
or the universe was created when a alien coughed up mucus? and out came organisms and this spirti being which formed the whole galaxy and he decided to create and create.. or maybe god is sleeping and we are his dream?
I am being sarcastic btw
Gilgamesh.Alyria
VIP
Server: Gilgamesh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 13080
By Gilgamesh.Alyria 2009-12-03 12:00:18
All I know is, I wake up, I'm alive with my kid, I don't believe in God/Jesus/Satan, and I am happy.
You do what you do and I do what I do, if your god does ever show its face, then you guys prepare for whatever happens next.
All you need is to be happy and if you're not happy, then do whatever you can to be happy.
Is everybody happy?
And I mean happy of where you are today, your life, yourself, and when you wake up.
I don't need a god to make me happy, if you believe and it makes you happy, good! As long as you are happy. :)
Asura.Korpg
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 7782
By Asura.Korpg 2009-12-03 12:00:32
Fairy.Vegetto said: Sylph.Beelshamen said: Fairy.Vegetto said: I don't expect anything, because it's fake. You don't know that. If you don't expect anything it's probably out of the reasoning that you don't believe it's real. It doesn't mean that makes it fake. While we may disagree to whether it's real or fake, it's undeniable that it's just a theory. Nothing is set is stone or has been proven as fact. So, I can tell you that gravity exists, but you won't believe me until you drop an apple from your hand to the ground.
Sometimes, venturing into the unknown is good for everyone. Helps us learn.
Server: Fairy
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3615
By Fairy.Vegetto 2009-12-03 12:00:46
"I also agree God tells us everyday, we just dont listen."
He hasn't spoken a single word to me in my lifetime. There's a difference between him telling me something and someone "representing" him saying something.
If my brother comes up to you and says that I told you to do something, does that make it true? of course not. Same thing applies to preachers or whoever else wants to tell me that god said to do this or that. In Judge Judy's words, "That's hearsay"
Asura.Korpg
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 7782
By Asura.Korpg 2009-12-03 12:01:35
I'm not happy Alyria, can you make me happy? ~.^
Server: Seraph
Game: FFXI
Posts: 5
By Seraph.Rollingthunder 2009-12-03 12:02:21
funny, when i was reading the original post i kept wondering why it sounded familiar; then someone posted the george carlin skit.
personally, i'm not against religion as a whole, just organized religion. personal beliefs should be exactly that...personal. why does everyone feel the need to be validated all the time? we as humans have a lot of unanswered questions, and those questions instill said desire of validation.
Server: Ifrit
Game: FFXI
Posts: 24692
By Ifrit.Kungfuhustle 2009-12-03 12:02:43
the Earth was made in China millions of years ago, Australia has the trademark logo in the Outback.
Ramuh.Dasva
Server: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 40469
By Ramuh.Dasva 2009-12-03 12:03:43
Pandemonium.Aravol said: I agree with that. I also agree God tells us everyday, we just dont listen. We feel the only proof of existance is a visual and powerful display of strength for a God to exist. IF you have to try to communicate with someone you have no knowledge of how to do so with or even knowledge of them existed to actually hear them then they aren't really trying to communicate with you.
I'm wispering right now. Can you hear me? Well maybe if you had listened...
Asura.Korpg
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 7782
By Asura.Korpg 2009-12-03 12:04:06
Fairy.Vegetto said: "I also agree God tells us everyday, we just dont listen." He hasn't spoken a single word to me in my lifetime. There's a difference between him telling me something and someone "representing" him saying something. If my brother comes up to you and says that I told you to do something, does that make it true? of course not. Same thing applies to preachers or whoever else wants to tell me that god said to do this or that. In Judge Judy's words, "That's hearsay" Maybe you should stop taking TV shows as your sources of information, and read it from the source.
While you are at it though, read Plato's "Allegory of the Cave"
Might help change your view of the world.
Server: Fairy
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3615
By Fairy.Vegetto 2009-12-03 12:06:25
Read it from the source? What source. The bible has been recycled how many times? I say with certainty that NOBODY alive today has their information straight from the source.
Fairy.Tbest
Server: Fairy
Game: FFXI
Posts: 5490
By Fairy.Tbest 2009-12-03 12:07:21
Dead Sea scrolls? >.>
Server: Remora
Game: FFXI
Posts: 129
By Remora.Narrubia 2009-12-03 12:09:07
Pandemonium.Aravol said: I also agree God tells us everyday, we just dont listen. We feel the only proof of existance is a visual and powerful display of strength for a God to exist. Well, God should know what would be sufficient evidence for people to believe in Him, since he created humans. And since He isn't providing this kind of evidence, we're left to wonder if He doesn't love all of us unconditionally, or if He simply doesn't exist. Is that the logic behind your point, Vegetto?
Pandemonium.Aravol
Server: Pandemonium
Game: FFXI
Posts: 475
By Pandemonium.Aravol 2009-12-03 12:09:42
Fairy.Vegetto said: "I also agree God tells us everyday, we just dont listen." He hasn't spoken a single word to me in my lifetime. There's a difference between him telling me something and someone "representing" him saying something. If my brother comes up to you and says that I told you to do something, does that make it true? of course not. Same thing applies to preachers or whoever else wants to tell me that god said to do this or that. In Judge Judy's words, "That's hearsay" But if your brother couldnt appear to u and left you letters or had
True, but we cannot possibly understand what a "perfect" being God's Mind decides to do. We are merely thoughtless compared to that. We are to selfish to think otherwise that we demand things as does a toddler when they throw a fit.
I have been very debatable in the past on many of these issues. I just research and try to have it make sense to me.
look around and there is no way this world could just accidently happen from nothing. We had to be created in my opinion. So i just go from that and it makes sense to me.
Unless some people are believers we were created from the alien race the Reptilians who they claim are coming soon! LOL
Ramuh.Dasva
Server: Ramuh
Game: FFXI
Posts: 40469
By Ramuh.Dasva 2009-12-03 12:09:58
Fairy.Tbest said: Dead Sea scrolls? >.> Ironically though they are the earliest recordings of bibical stuff large portions are just ignored and not put into the bible
Server: Bahamut
Game: FFXI
Posts: 6173
By Bahamut.Stanflame 2009-12-03 12:10:20
Remora.Narrubia said: Ragnarok.Anye said: Seraph.Bulleta said: 5. Fossil records clearly show that there was life on Earth before humans. There's also a few errors in carbon dating, if you're not aware. Referring to this article in wikipedia, Radiocarbon dating - The need for calibration, Wikipedia said: A raw BP date cannot be used directly as a calendar date, because the level of atmospheric 14C has not been strictly constant during the span of time that can be radiocarbon dated. The level is affected by variations in the cosmic ray intensity which is in turn affected by variations in the earth's magnetosphere. In addition, there are substantial reservoirs of carbon in organic matter, the ocean, ocean sediments (see methane hydrate), and sedimentary rocks. Changes in the Earth's climate can affect the carbon flows between these reservoirs and the atmosphere, leading to changes in the atmosphere's 14C fraction. In short, the Earth's state, surrounding atmosphere, and climate have not been constant. Scientists have to make up for it using various methods. It is entirely possible that there are many instances of dramatic geological, atmospheric, and climatic changes that they are completely unaware of. However, this could be wrong as there is no way to concretely prove either argument right or wrong. Unless you were there. I'm not sure if this kind of information is really sufficient evidence to bring up any kind of reasonable uncertainty that there wasn't life before humans:
If I'm reading this graph correctly, then there is about a 1000 year error ratio in carbon analysis for every 7000 years old the carbon actually is. Even if the calibrated trend is exponential, the difference in carbon-dated time between the first evidence of life ( 2.5 to 4.0 billion years ago) and the first evidence of human life ( 200,000 years ago) is significant enough to say with certainty that there was life before humans.
does not mean that god could not have created human, or used planets as his play ground and an farm.
Server: Fairy
Game: FFXI
Posts: 3615
By Fairy.Vegetto 2009-12-03 12:12:16
"But if your brother couldnt appear to u and left you letters or had "
If he left me a letter, I know his handwriting. I'd know it was from him. It's still something he's doing DIRECTLY, and not something that he does indirectly. So let's say he can't appear to me, but instead of writing a letter, he turns to the person next to him "Hey write this down for me and send it to my brother"
See my point?
Asura.Korpg
Server: Asura
Game: FFXI
Posts: 7782
By Asura.Korpg 2009-12-03 12:12:16
Fairy.Vegetto said: Read it from the source? What source. The bible has been recycled how many times? I say with certainty that NOBODY alive today has their information straight from the source. You missed my point.
They are all stories, made up stories with no historical backing to it (except that Jesus did live, and died by Crusifiction, but thats it).
But, since you like to believe (or disbelieve) everything based by TV (since you did use it as an example) instead of doing the work yourself, you have no real opinion about anything.
I'm just pointing it out for you, since you have failed to realize it...yet again.
A lot of the people in this world believe we need to regulate drugs and guns to make this a safer place. I have a different insight. I think if you're going to regulate one thing that has the most potential to cause death and destruction, it should be religion. Religion is dangerous, and I don't say this out of bitterness. I was raised catholic. I was never molested, but.. Meh i'm a little insulted lol. I was attractive, so hey it was their loss.
What I have against religion is... They start you when you are so defensless. I was 3 years old when they started pumping this BS into my head. I believed in Santa Clause and the Fairy Godmother, ofcourse I believed in virgin birth, a guy that lived in a whale, and a woman came from a rib. But then, something very important happened to me that made me doubt all of it. I graduated the 6th grade :)
What is so hard about saying "I don't know" !?
Ofcourse there are questions that plaque all of us...
How did we get here?
What happens when we die?
Is there a heaven?
Am I on the list?
Who let the dogs out?
So why would you believe some other human being (Who's brain "I promise you is no bigger or better than your own") when he tells you he knows what happens when you die?
"Don't masturbate now, or you won't get to hang out with Jesus in heaven! How do I know!? I've got a pointy hat! I have a hat, and a robe, I have smoke and a wand!"... It's so gay.
Every Sunday is like a pageant with the costumes, the wands, the goblets, the smoke, and the men kneeling down in front of other men with their mouths open.. Nothing gay about that!
Religion, easily has the greatest bullshit story ever told. Think about it. Religion has actually convinced people that there is an invisible man living in the sky, who watches everything you do every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of 10 things He does not want you to do. And if you do any of these 10 things, he has a special place full of fire, and smoke, and burning, and torture, and anguish, where he will send you to live to burn, and suffer, and choke, and scream, and cry forever and ever untill the end of time. BuT He LoVeS YoU <3 <3 <3 <3
He loves you and he always needs MONEY! He's all powerful, all perfect, all knowing, and all wise, but somehow he just can't handle money o.O!! Religion takes in billions of dollars, they pay no taxes, and they always need a little more $$$$$ Talk about a good bullshit story.. Holyshit!
This is Sincere: When it came to believing in god, I really tried. I wanted to believe that there was a god who created us in his own image, loves us very much, and keeps a close eye on things. I tried, but the longer you live, the more you look around, and the more you realize that something is ????d up:
(War Disease Death Destruction Hunger Filth Poverty Torture Crime)
This is not good work. If this is the best god can do, I am not impressed. A results like these do not belong on the resume of a supreme being. These are the results you would expect from an office temp with a bad attitude.
Between you and me... In any feasibly ran universe, this guy would have been out on his all powerful ass a long time ago. I say guy, because if there really is a god he has to be a man. No woman could or would ever ???? things up like this ^.^
If there is a god, I think that most reasonable people would agree that he is atleast incompetent, and maybe.. Just maybe.. He doesn't give a shit. Which I admire in a person, and it would explain a lot of these bad results. So instead of being just another mindless-religious robot, mindlessly.. Aimlessly.. Blindly believing that all of this is in the hands of some spooky incompitent father figure who doesn't give a shit, I decided to find something else to worship. Something I could actually count on...
I immidiatly thought of the sun. Overnight, just like that. I became a sun worshipper, but not overnight because you can't see the sun at night. But first thing the next morning....
Several reasons...
First of all, I can see the sun. (Unlike a few other gods I know). I'm big on that, if I can see something it kind of helps the credibility. So everyday I can see the sun as it gives me everything I need: Light, Heat, Food, Flowers in the Park, Reflections in the Lake, the occasional skin cancer but hey.. Atleast there are no crucifixions and setting people on fire simply because they don't agree with us.
Sun worshipping is simple. There are no mysteries, no miracles, no pageantry, noone asks for money, no songs to learn, and we don't have a building we gather together in once a week to compare clothing.
Suppose your prayers aren't answered. What do you say? Its god's will~? It will be done. Fine, but if it's god's will, he is going to do what he wants to anyway... Why the hell pray for it in the first place? Couldn't you just skip the paying, and just go straight to god's will?
I do believe prayers are answered though.. Maybe at a 50% rate! Half the time I get what I want. Half of the time I don't. Same as the four leaf clover, the horse shoe, the wishing well, the rabbit's foot, the mojo man, same as the voodoo lady that tells you fortune by squeezing a goat's testicle. It's all the same.. 50/50... So just pick your superstition, make a wish, and sit back and enjoy yourself.
And for those of you who look to the bible for moral lessons, and literary qualities... I'll suggest a few other stories for you... You might want to look at:
~The Three Little Pigs (It has a nice happy ending)
~Little Red Riding Hood (Although it has that X-rated part where the wolf actually eats the grandmother)
~Humpty Dumpty (All the king's horses, and all the king's men couldn't put humpty dumpty back together again. That's because there is no Humpty Dumpty, and there is no God.)
If there is a God, may he strike me dead!....
...
...
?
o.O Nothing happened... lol
|
|
