Wing Of War - Cleared

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Wing of War - Cleared
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By Ovalidal 2026-05-06 07:15:27
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mhomho said: »
I have more respect for a player like Ejin six boxing as he is open about his cheating than I am about players that lie about it or recite the narcissist prayer over it

Do you know of a single master trial group who has been more open about what's used than Shiraj and Dexprozius? Because I've spoken to and tracked a lot of players throughout my time tracking Oathsworn Blade and Wing of War progress. And these guys have been the most publicly transparent.

Asura.Shiraj said: »
It's not about the addons used, if any. It's just as simple as if 1 person doesn't wanna be in a video then I won't post.

I can corroborate this by the way. Several months (if not a year ago at this point), I spoke with Shiraj and he expressed his plans to put out a video if he happened to be the first to clear. He later walked back on this, citing some in the group's preference for a low profile as the reason. This isn't an excuse he is pulling just now, he was telling me the same thing back before the group knew whether or not they would clear.
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By mhomho 2026-05-06 13:28:23
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They banned 14 players for zooming the camera out during an ultimate fight and you guys want to act like add-ons aren't a big deal. I'm sure the 14 players didn't think zooming the camera out was a big deal either.

"Ultimate trials are designed to be cleared without any unauthorized tools."

You think Master Trials don't fall under the same stipulations?

Delu-lu.

Are add-ons authorized tools? No. It's that simple.
Ovalidal said: »
He later walked back on this, citing some in the group's preference for a low profile as the reason.

Huh. Almost like how cheaters don't like to attract attention to themselves so they don't get caught.

All I'm saying is: guilty~
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By Cerberus.Dekar 2026-05-06 13:49:59
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mhomho said: »
Are add-ons authorized tools? No. It's that simple.

I'm extremely curious how familiar you are with FFXI. Some players have been using Windower (an 'unauthorized' add on) and other base add ons for the better part of two decades. I can't speak to whatever else that group used, but I don't think 'cheater' is quite accurate or fair.
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By Althor 2026-05-06 13:55:58
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Mho if you could identify a specific cheat or exploit that changed the fight strategy or gave this group an advantage to clear before anyone else that would be one thing, but you obviously can't.

You're going to have to do better than this vague *** if you want anyone to take you seriously.
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 Fenrir.Velner
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By Fenrir.Velner 2026-05-06 13:58:00
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Some people like to make videos and stream and love attention while other people are normal and sane and would rather not. The #1 reason people cite for not wanting to make content for XI is that weirdos will report them for even innocuous addon use, which is a legitimate concern. And I would imagine people geared enough and skilled enough to clear something like Wings of War have a helluva lot to lose, amplifying this concern. I'd love to see the footage but understand 1000% why somebody wouldn't want to release it. It doesn't take away from the accomplishment. Well done!
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 Shiva.Thorny
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By Shiva.Thorny 2026-05-06 14:20:58
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Didn't they post screenshots of everyone who took part when this thread came up, anyway?

If their play was legit I don't really see how posting a video does anything else to alter their profile or anonymity. Like I said last page, I don't think there's any reason to assume they're using anything that 95% of the endgame base isn't already using. But, JA0(and packetflow, and good autora) still have a substantial impact on max hover shot output. I'd go as far as saying RNG strategy is the only strategy where third party tool use substantially alters the damage ceiling, and this fight relies heavily on that ceiling.
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 Lakshmi.Avereith
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By Lakshmi.Avereith 2026-05-06 15:06:04
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mhomho said: »
Almost like how cheaters don't like to attract attention to themselves so they don't get caught.
You must be new here
 Asura.Dexprozius
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By Asura.Dexprozius 2026-05-06 15:38:53
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Shiva.Thorny said: »
Didn't they post screenshots of everyone who took part when this thread came up, anyway?

If their play was legit I don't really see how posting a video does anything else to alter their profile or anonymity. Like I said last page, I don't think there's any reason to assume they're using anything that 95% of the endgame base isn't already using. But, JA0(and packetflow, and good autora) still have a substantial impact on max hover shot output. I'd go as far as saying RNG strategy is the only strategy where third party tool use substantially alters the damage ceiling, and this fight relies heavily on that ceiling.

I cant speak for other rangers, but "Good Ol AutoRA"? Ive never used auto RA... I'd rather have more control in my play

Thorny you've always been this way. Video or foul play. We're not obligated to post a video to you. Get off it man

As far as the other 2 people clowning on this thread, they're not even worth a response... highly unserious individuals. I wish them the best
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By Dodik 2026-05-06 15:40:31
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Frak me addons discussion again? Rolls eyes.

Everyone* Cheats. Yes, that guy too. Yes, you too "I just use windower for the superior alt-tab".

Trust that is clear.

* I do in fact know a handful strictly vanilla ps2 controller using players. They're better than 99% of addon users.
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 Asura.Sensarity
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By Asura.Sensarity 2026-05-06 15:42:17
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mhomho said: »
They banned 14 players for zooming the camera out during an ultimate fight and you guys want to act like add-ons aren't a big deal. I'm sure the 14 players didn't think zooming the camera out was a big deal either.

"Ultimate trials are designed to be cleared without any unauthorized tools."

You think Master Trials don't fall under the same stipulations?

Delu-lu.

Are add-ons authorized tools? No. It's that simple.

I'm sure if Yoshi P was in charge of FFXI in its prime gearswap users would have been the first to go

refer to my previous post:

Asura.Sensarity said: »
who gives a *** ***

y'all acting like *** purists in a game where the entire playerbase swaps out 9000 pieces of gear to cast a single spell
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 Asura.Dexprozius
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By Asura.Dexprozius 2026-05-06 15:46:57
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Every now and then some vanilla purist pops into a forum, where 90-99% of players in said forum use some degree of quality of life addon, majority of which are completely innocuous and accepted/ignored by SE, because they don't hurt other players or impact core gameplay. 90% of addons simply display more information to players in a clearer manner, or change the look of things. I'm being reductive obviously, and there are 'bad' tools out there that people use, but its all well known ***, use at your own risk. This doesn't need to be re-litigated for the umpteenth time.

Regardless, said players still come in here, preach from their high horse superiority, and shake fingers at everyone else. True Karen behavior. If you want to play that way, do so and be happy. We all love this game. You do you. If you think ANY of the master trials, or any content for that matter, over the last decade plus, had no one using Windower AT ALL, then you're the one who's "Delu-lu"
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By Althor 2026-05-06 16:28:44
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Gotta give credit to SE, 24 years and going strong on a game where the players refuse to use the unmodified client, endure some of the most grueling grinds and notorious/infamous bosses in video game history, and keep coming back for more. Should be complete solidarity for all the abuse instead of all the in-fighting :p

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By Carbuncle.Nynja 2026-05-06 16:44:10
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mhomho said: »
have more respect for a player like Ejin six boxing as he is open about his cheating
Ejin denied using any third party tools over and over and insisted it was just "proper and creative use of windower addons" (or something like that, which is still a ToS violation, but anyways). When he got banned he doubled down how he's never used automative tools and begged his followers to harass SE to unban him. When people started digging up his old videos and pointing out exactly where third party tools were being used, he went private with his stuff.

Sorry, didnt want to derail this, but I saw someone else quote this line elsewhere and I had to chime in.



So lets get it back on track, who gives a *** if content that is TWO YEARS OLD finally got cleared with the assistance of tools. Theres a huge difference between "MUH WORLD FIRST" on using illegitimate tools as a crutch for brand new content and using these same tools to get "MUH WORLD FIRST" on content that is two years old. This is some AV / PW type of *** content.
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 Shiva.Thorny
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By Shiva.Thorny 2026-05-06 17:13:34
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Asura.Dexprozius said: »
Thorny you've always been this way. Video or foul play. We're not obligated to post a video to you. Get off it man

It doesn't make my point any less valid: a 250ms packet interval or the ability to position for next hover shot while last animation finishes produce a finite increase in DPS. A packet-based autora produces a finite increase in DPS. Technically, even gearswap removes the 1 second grace period when you hit your ranged too early and produces a finite increase in DPS aside from the swaps. It is factual and beyond debate that third party tools produce a measurable increase in peak DPS for ranged strategies.

Most other strategies benefit substantially from the ease of use provided by these tools but do not gain direct DPS. As a result, third party tool use plays a larger role in RNG strategies than other strategies by a substantial margin. I would hope everyone can agree on these facts.

On the topic of exposure as a reason for not sharing: Your players claim they want to keep a low profile, but all of them have been named. Shiraj allegedly intended to post the video, so he can't be concerned about being seen with his own addon loadout if that's the case. Nobody else's addons will be visible. Perhaps there are other reasons not to share it and you don't want to go into them, that's your right. However, it isn't a compelling argument from my perspective.

I look forward to the clearly unbiased response that will address the words I said rather than how they made you feel.
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 Asura.Eiryl
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By Asura.Eiryl 2026-05-06 17:22:26
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There's a 100% chance the rangers are doing exactly perfect 1 step left 1 step right in sync

Why anyone cares though, no idea.

They're not going to show it and they definitely shouldn't.
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 Asura.Dexprozius
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By Asura.Dexprozius 2026-05-06 17:25:52
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Shiva.Thorny said: »
Asura.Dexprozius said: »
Thorny you've always been this way. Video or foul play. We're not obligated to post a video to you. Get off it man

It doesn't make my point any less valid: a 250ms packet interval or the ability to position for next hover shot while last animation finishes produce a finite increase in DPS. A packet-based autora produces a finite increase in DPS. Technically, even gearswap removes the 1 second grace period when you hit your ranged too early and produces a finite increase in DPS aside from the swaps. It is factual and beyond debate that third party tools produce a measurable increase in peak DPS for ranged strategies.

Most other strategies benefit substantially from the ease of use provided by these tools but do not gain direct DPS. As a result, third party tool use plays a larger role in RNG strategies than other strategies by a substantial margin. I would hope everyone can agree on these facts.

On the topic of exposure as a reason for not sharing: Your players claim they want to keep a low profile, but all of them have been named. Shiraj allegedly intended to post the video, so he can't be concerned about being seen with his own addon loadout if that's the case. Nobody else's addons will be visible. Perhaps there are other reasons not to share it and you don't want to go into them, that's your right. However, it isn't a compelling argument from my perspective.

I look forward to the clearly unbiased response that will address the words I said rather than how they made you feel.


There's literally no satisfying you so I'm not even going to try. No matter what argument I'll convey to you you'll be dismissive of it. It's a pattern of behavior.

Also never argued that addons don't disproportionately increase RNG dps over other jobs. I simply pointed out your implication that everyone uses X ranger addon, which I certainly do not and will be extreme confidence say that the other ranger did not.

That is all


Asura.Eiryl said: »
There's a 100% chance the rangers are doing exactly perfect 1 step left 1 step right in sync

Why anyone cares though, no idea.

They're not going to show it and they definitely shouldn't.

If I was moving perfectly 1 step left and right in sync, I wouldnt have gotten full dispelled mid fight on our clear, nor lost hovershot stacks.

When geared/buffed right and with luck there's PLENTY of room for DPS to make mistakes, it's simply just near impossible if invincible goes off.


---

Also while I'm at it, the implication that "You're progging a master trial therefore EVERY SINGLE attempt needs to be recorded incase you clear in order to validate yourselves in the eyes of a small group of overly critical people in the community" is nonsense to me. Some runs were recorded for review, not all.

Whether or not Shiraj has a recording of the clear, the insistence that we have to have one otherwise "foul play" is laughable. This is a fight we've done hundreds of times and we had very low morale and little hope of clearing, then suddenly a god run presented itself to us. So to you guys that means; MOM GET THE CAMERA!!!

On top of that, demanding footage when you know FULL WELL that there are plenty of unhinged people in the community who are happy to mass report others for streaming something as simple as equip viewer because it breaks ToS. I have 0 qualms with some of our members feeling more comfortable not being on camera, whether its from Shiraj's perspective or not is irrelevant.

You got a full write up of the strategy, the hurdles, the mechanic, and a bunch of commentary. We have the weapon. That's all you need. I'd love to see more dedicated members of the community take a crack at it now that they don't have to spend the extra hours trying random things to discover a mechanic that doesn't exist. Simply throw the same comp we did at it until you get lucky SPs and survive. Certainly this information was worthy of posting to the community without all the negativity and witch hunting
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By Althor 2026-05-06 17:39:59
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every aspect of good ranger dps is tied to addons, much more so than melee. over the course of a 53min fight the parse wouldn't even be close. ignoring hover shot, just having automated preshot and midshot sets would create an insurmountable gap. if this is the point of contention I get it, I thought we were talking about something like Oathsworn blade August breaking here.
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By Asura.Dexprozius 2026-05-06 17:44:31
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Althor said: »
I thought we were talking about something like Oathsworn blade August breaking here.

There was no exploits or shenanigans for the mechanics of this fight... The fight is just extremely poorly designed and overtuned. If SE wanted a balance of Magic and Physical, it simply cant be done w/ current gear/scaling. If there's a way to prevent SP or special effects, its still yet undiscovered. It all boils down to do alot of damage, dont die, and get lucky
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By Asura.Eiryl 2026-05-06 18:05:13
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If the DPS from the rangers isn't required to be near perfect, it shouldn't have taken a year to win. (when was it nerfed, you should've won that day)

The win condition is a 4x coin flip thats not astronomically low
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By Asura.Dexprozius 2026-05-06 18:24:57
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Asura.Eiryl said: »
If the DPS from the rangers isn't required to be near perfect, it shouldn't have taken a year to win. (when was it nerfed, you should've won that day)

The win condition is a 4x coin flip thats not astronomically low

There's alot of factors... which have already been stated in this thread.

Accuracy nerf
More accuracy gear for COR (10% of the dps rather than 2-3)
Wild Card crazy luck
Stage 5 Primes x3
x4~5 Sforzo RNG
Many players / teams giving up due to lack of mechanic discovery

Call it whatever you want. On our clear we had Large mistakes and cleared with a solid window left. I think its replicable if people want to put their mind to it and brute force runs until the lucky run lines up.
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By Lakshmi.Buukki 2026-05-06 19:25:32
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Asura.Eiryl said: »
If the DPS from the rangers isn't required to be near perfect, it shouldn't have taken a year to win. (when was it nerfed, you should've won that day)


I mean they needed 3 Stage 5 Primes to clear it and meet the DPS check. If one or several of them were working on different primes, they likely had to finish those and start on the guns. It's not like they were attempting it every single day of their life. Has to be planned, coordinated, attrition considered, backfilling members who leave the game etc. Any number of factors or all of them combined could have resulted in it taking so long.
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By Carbuncle.Maletaru 2026-05-06 20:36:57
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Althor said: »
every aspect of good ranger dps is tied to addons, much more so than melee. over the course of a 53min fight the parse wouldn't even be close. ignoring hover shot, just having automated preshot and midshot sets would create an insurmountable gap. if this is the point of contention I get it, I thought we were talking about something like Oathsworn blade August breaking here.

Idk, I heard an interesting strategy that someone suggested in another thread that I think resolves the preshot midshot issue for vanilla. Haven't tried it myself, yet, but I think it should work. Macros like:

/equipset midshot
/shoot <wait 1>
/equipset preshot

Should work to take advantage of a fully optimized preshot set. It would still be difficult from a play perspective because you, as the player, would need to time each shot at least 1s after the last one, but you would at least eliminate the issue of "i can't use the best preshot set because my shots go off before my midshot can get on".

I haven't changed all my sets over to this yet because it means you can't ever get back into your idle/engaged sets so it's a bit risky, and it also assumes you're always going shot into shot, which is very rarely the case for me. For a fight that's purely ranged though, I would use this kind of setup, for vanilla play.

That said: there are definitely advantages that are hard to ignore, like the reduced cognitive load of having to worry about every shot and every WS being at least 1s after each other or the penalties applied if you mess one up, plus (more importantly) the additional benefits of ja0 wait (being able to hover shot slide while in WS animations or shooting animations).

So...not that anyone cares but I think for my part I'm aligned with thorny here. It's a very impressive achievement and I'm happy to congratulate the group, in fact I already have and I meant it, kudos. I also think that ranged-based strategies are particularly affected by third party tool usage though. I also don't think they have to provide a video to prove anything and would never demand one.

On the topic of third party tools being mandatory to clear this, I'm not totally convinced, baed on the testimonials given here. It seems like it might be possible for sub-optimal DPS to still clear it, given the right luck and circumstances. Another thing I agree with the consensus on though: 99% of endgame players are using third party tools, so the idea that there will be a pure 100% vanilla team clearing this is just fantasy, IMO. There just isn't enough interest in the community for vanilla play to support that kind of party, especially in the hardcore endgame at the bleeding edge like the newly released master trials.

Finally: with regards to the reasons a video hasn't been released (of a clear or a prog attempt): Firstly it's none of our business, they can release it or not. Secondly, there's no reason to believe they're liars when they say their members didn't want it released, and obviously the recorder should respect the wishes of his team. Thirdly: the speculation about WHY they don't want it released is absolutely silly. And lastly: i think the videos, if they exist, will clearly show some non-vanilla gameplay. As I said earlier, 99% of players use SOME KINDA addons, and these players have even said as much about themselves, they've been quite open and honest about it. Where they draw the line between acceptable and not acceptable is up for debate, but ultimately a pointless endeavor. They don't want to risk someone else's opinion about where that line should be drawn compromising their accounts, which makes sense.
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