What Job Is "missing" From A REA?

This point is brought up all the time, for this plus lots of other empyrean WS (Jishnu's, Camlann's, etc) but...hard disagree.

The fact that different WS have different modifiers and require (BARELY) different sets at all, is much more interesting than "stack WSD and DEX for every Katana WS".

It could be argued that DEX would be better than AGI for Hi, since it's a crit WS, but again...this provides an actually interesting decision point. Is it better to add more AGI for WSC, DEX, crit rate, crit damage...?

Way more interesting than making every bow/marksmanship WS AGI, every Katana WS DEX, every sword WS STR...

AGI mod has done far more to weaken Hi than make gear decisions for it remotely interesting over the years. Even making it split DEX/AGI would've been better. Your overall point isn't wrong but this is a case where it didn't pan out well.

It wouldnt be interesting either. One guy makes the set and you copy it into your gearswap. There's no interesting in that.

It'd be "interesting" for him to type the spreadsheet for about 10 minutes.

You can have that much fun pretending its DEX and building the set right now even though it isn't.

Last time I had a problem with my mythic on RDM was against kalunga because a PIERCING SWORD that can only do SLASHING WS isn't very useful...anywhere. The only good sword WSs are savage blade and Expiacion. And we all know savage blade is for CORs when there is a WS wall, maybe a BRD or WAR, but certainly not a REMA sword user. So yeah, I'd want a slashing sword that has a good slashing WS with a mythic AM3 aftermath since I'm not dual wielding natively.

R15 murgleis does ok death blossoms if tomahawk is up on kalunga, but mostly is just how fast they can come out to negate the wall for other people. Instead of Tizona, I'd settle for the prime sword to be less of a mess.

I'm honestly shocked that there are no VIT based WSs for sword at this point for PLD.

It's mainly not for MP recovery, but for WS. Expiacion is as strong or stronger than Naegling/Savage and you have AM3 and easier way to avoid WS wall. It would be by far the strongest dps option for RDM. MP recovery would be a cherry on top.

Dagan for MNK would be very cool utility that would let you heal without /DNC. You could even make TP with Boost and use it outside of the fight. With good HP build, you could probably cure to full in 2 WS or even one with 3000TP.

On top of that Gambanteinn with AM3 would be a perfect weapon for cheesy Dual Wield Hundred Fists build :D Possibly game breaking to some extend.

I couldn't agree more. It looks more glaring when you compare ALL other WS for the weapon types.

Archery: EVERY other WS has attribute mods of AGI, STR, or both. DEX only appears on Jishnu's. AGI also impacts ranged crit rate, which feels pretty relevant for a ranged crit WS.

Katana: DEX, STR, INT mods for EVERY other WS. AGI only appears on Blade: Hi. And what do you know, DEX also impacts melee crit rate for a crit WS like Hi.

These feel like they were truly an inadvertent mix-up to me. And to compare to some other Empy WS with somewhat awkward mods, at least those ones aren't completely out of step with other WS for the weapon type. Torcleaver isn't the only VIT mod GS weaponskill, Camlann's has the strange secondary VIT mod but also has the STR typical of almost all Polearm WS, etc.

Another similar conspiracy theory:
When they added the ToAU jobs, I think they made a mistake and put throwing skill on PUP when it was supposed to go to BLU. BLU has no throwing skill, yet gets access to several Chakrams (which are job limited, usually THF NIN BLU DNC). PUP has Throwing skill, but is highly unlikely to ever want to throw anything since the core function of the job requires an animator in the ranged slot.

this isn't the actual question of the topic but it's in the spirit - what is missing from Hundred Fists is working with every weapon type. let me Larceny one of the Domain Invasion dragons and just go absolutely ham with Naegling for the memes or whatever!

Jakey tried Larceny HF from Keeper of Heiligtum and it didnt work.

Same. Also like which piece of Mochizuki got the Ninjutsu Macc/MAB merit augment when the San wheel was changed to be regular spells.

So. Dumb. ;_;

Yeah but that got added later. For like 5+ years CT was all VIT, no STR.

I ASSUME Calad was an attempt to get PLDs to try using a greatsword and to keep DRKs from falling over so easily by beefing up their STR:VIT ratio. I assume the same for CT. Clearly it was a very popular choice with how quickly it was replaced by Ragnarok + Resolution during the VW era and people continuing to say lolDRG.

I apply the same logic to Blade: Hi. NIN was an AGI tank that could DD during abyssea and so continuing to be evasive while you dealt damage with that stat was double dipping JUST not in damage, but instead damage and survivability.

I use assume a lot here, but the reality is that it barely matters what WSC is if you're just going to 5/5 nyame or add empy/relic WS pieces and the PDL piece if you have one. There is wiggle room on accessories but it's not like you're going to pull out Ramuh + Rogue's roll and dragon uppercut things to to the moon. MNK will not Suplex a Phantom Train without Impetus Flowing through their veins. There is no Critical Damage buff that can go to any content that you can give to others (please correct me if I'm wrong) so crit based empys just live in the past and their attempt at making us use defensive stats to do damage either got fixed later, or didn't. I'm not going to talk about Jishnu's Radiance other than I enjoyed blinding people with it.

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I would have really liked to see THF on Gleti's Crossbow. With how generous they were with Bunzi's Rod and Mpaca's staff, it seems silly that they made a crossbow that will never get used by anyone.

Nyame didn't exist when these weapons came out and stats were much lower at the time so I'm not sure we should be retroactively applying the "we just spam WSD" logic when that statistic didn't exist when the design decision in question was made.

Skill issue

Let's see... in with keeping the thread on topic:

I've always wished WAR was on Caladbolg. The restriction to PLD and DRK irritates me, because PLD actually has lower skill than WAR with Gsword.

But like Axe they tend to not want to put WAR on the moderate delay high damage weapons because they still seem to think white damage matters far more than it really does. The attempted goal being not having Great Axe outshined on WAR by other weapons that WAR is proficient in... thus proving they don't playtest their own game. *dagger eyes at Naegling(and Shining One TBH)*

I also wish though that all of the jobs that are capable of unlocking merited WSes were on their respective Aeonics. Aeonics should not have been tied to jobs, because the merited WSes that came half a decade before the Aeonics did were not restricted to that narrow band of REMA jobs. Like tons of jobs are actually on those merited WSes and can benefit from those WSes.

WAR should basically be on like half the aeonics lmao. But nearly every job should also be on the other aeonics too. Like THF can merit Last Stand. Go ahead and put it on Fomalhaut, you cowards!

I also agree that WAR should have been on Guttler(and the new Prime one too). Though I'm sure most folks felt different about that 20 years ago.

On a larger note problem, they need to rework a few Gaxe WSes, Scythe WS, Axe WSes, and Katana WSes as well. I know people claim that it's all intended, but Steel Cyclone's fTP really hasn't increased proportionately compared to other WSNM and fTP based WSes. And that was its entire point originally. At the 75 cap the 1handers had higher fTP still, but it wasn't crazy outlandish. It was like double. And if you actually ever geared for Savage Blade on WAR or other strong DDs, you could see it do rather ridiculous numbers. (that actually used to be one of my favorite things well into the abyssea era, and for reference the fTP on Savage Blade was calculated to be like 5.2 at 300% back then)

Same for Spiral Hell, as evidenced by someone in thread posting a screenshot about it saying it's almost as good as an ACTUALLY GOOD WS when used with a weapon that gives it +100% WSD(though does make me want to make a Drepanum and try it out on WAR).

But it's sad it's not so for Lycurgos and Steel Cyclone. In spite of having +20 in both of its mods, a +30% dmg bonus, and perpetual TP bonus of 500~600(unless you're getting absolutely mollywhopped) it's still just basically a skillchain filler/closer.

It's super odd to me how often two handers just feel like they're mostly for skillchains and not for big whamming hits. It's super odd that when I think, "Oh I need to just spam kill this ASAP. Let me put on my Sword and Shield..." Especially in this climate where dual wielding jobs get so much multi-attack and store TP that they can also just self SC anyway, too.

I also feel like they need to put eyes back on the Magians and do away with the TP bonus offhanders and ranged things that apply the TP bonus to your mainhand. Either that or every job that can used ranged weapons needs to be put onto Sparrowhawk and Anarchy. I find it a little bit ridiculous that both COR and RNG can put on a weird bow and then have better Savage Blade sets than like... every other job on Naegling.

*ahem* But that's enough about that.

Getting back on track. I think that the jobs that have shield skill innately have been left on the back burner with all sorts of shields in the game but only PLD, only PLD gets REMA shields. There are only 6 jobs in the game that have innate shield skill. Can you guess what they are?

Well obviously it's PLD, WAR, and then... WHM, RDM, THF, and BST. WAR has a C+, WHM a D, and then BST has E. THF and RDM have Fs. I'd love to see all of those jobs on Aegis. I'd love to see WHM on Ochain. I'd love to see ilvl updates to the older REMA shields as well, and I'd love to see the game give +269 shield skill like it does for weapons. It wouldn't hurt PLD none and it'd help everybody else.

You already touched on the magian thing, but i thought 2 handed WS' were mostly balanced, atleast the dmg varies ones. The ftp is lower/scaling is less of a spike because the base dmg on 2 handers is double or more than the 1 handers, magians and later on wars high levels of fencer+another bit of tp bonus on the emp legs can just kind of bypass this to an extent by skipping right over to nearly 2k in a similar timeframe that the 2hander gets to 1.5k~ though this varies wildly by job/buffs. I tend to lean more on it being primarily a naegling issue, and find 1 hander WS' need a bit more love instead, namely in axe/katana.

That being said gaxe could use some love too, ukkos, raging, KJ, aint aged the best imo

Could we influence some JP players to campaign for more jobs on existing REA? Since SE doesn't take NA feedback to heart.

No that's mostly my point on Empys. If you played during abyssea, the WSC were on the weapon. You could use atma to push that as far as you could and unlock even more default stats in zone. You didn't need WSD to hit bigger numbers than you had ever seen because you had WSC. And if you didn't have enough WSC, why not brew it? Crit WSs were overtuned because they eventually let us have crit damage in unreasonable amounts but the eco system of viable WS was interesting, but not balanced.

A lot of empys were pretty crummy outside of abyssea and were quickly replaced with merit WSs because multi hit was a lot more generous without the WSC needed to make them good. CT was only 60%VIT, they had to add an additional 60%STR onto it! More than mistral axe has at all!

I guess I'm just bitter(?) that they really dumbed down gear to the level that it is now to create a reasonable balance but they won't give us any reasonable crit damage gear to push up crit WSs. Nyame and gear creep is basically Atma level enhancements for everyone else and they didn't even attempt to balance them again.

What’s mostly missing in my opinion is, isn’t necessarily a job from a rema, it’s a type of weapon. War carry like 10-15 weapons all slashing, rng/cor is piercing only, mnk is only blunt… and so forth.

A real different endgame weapon would be a new category or mix of, instead of this short minded run "à la GoW" where you just keep stacking the number endlessly and mindlessly.

Example:
WAR: Great Axe with 60% blunt/40% slashing dmg, or a Mace that is just blunt

Cor/rng: blunt type gun/or just the ammo is the remap

Sam: an actual piercing pole arm

PLD: a blunt rema weapon that provides AM defensive boost (no it won’t break the game as you can only have 1 aftermath)

I mean the amounts of creativity that can be done is endless, new JA associated with that weapon (only mythic really does that so far)

I think these ideas could be interesting, but you're REALLY underestimating the ability of the FFXI community to find what's "best" and only use that.

If you have a Piercing polearm for SAM and it's better than Shining One, it will just become the new Shining One

If you make a PLD REMA that gives an AM that is stronger than Burtgang, it just becomes the new Burtgang.

If you make a weapon that's 60% slashing / 40% blunt, what are you ever possibly going to use that on?

People really, REALLY try to optimize this game and anything that's "neat" is very quickly labeled as "sub-optimal" instead.

Agree, GAXE kinda sucks without a massive TP Bonus. Unless you are rocking a Change or Conquerer it's gross. I foolishly made the war SU5 Path A on a whim lol.. It's basically a gimp Ukon at this point. Even Ragnarok tore through stuff better.

Ambu GAXE gets an honorable mention, ironically it's better used on DRK. It's easy to max out the tp bonus at 1000 using Drain 3.

Also it's *** that 1 handed weapons have a higher accuracy cap.

Imo Polearm/GK/Scythe should be 99% accuracy cap. I figure these weapons require some finesse to be efficient and effective. Whereas GAXE/GSWORD is more brutish honestly.

It's embarrassing whiffing Geirskogul/CTorment/Etc when I am using the highest accuracy polearm, and I am sitting at a solid 1500 accuracy with distract on.

2h weapons have certain advantages over 1h weapons, for example:
https://www.bg-wiki.com/ffxi/PDIF

I can just as easily say "its *** that 2 handed weapons have a higher PDIF cap, can I not?

Lol PUP having throwing skill is actually hilarious. I didn't know this. Goes without saying...there are more than a few blunders by SE, like this one, throughout the game.

I'm convinced they were going to have the animator be a boomerang, and couldnt figure out how to code it while keeping its main function

real salty that there isn't a prime handbell.
I'm sick of Dunna. I understand they don't want us swapping handbells constantly like bard does. Just make it a pure upgrade to the Dunna then.

Really wish GEO/RUN was also on the Empyrean weapons.
Would really like access to those weaponskills on GEO or RUN.

SAM should have been on the prime bow too.

Sarv/Terminus should have fixed enmity.

The problem with CT and Quietus was never their WSC, it's that they have absolutely garbage ignore defense bonuses and scale that instead of their http://fTP. Buffing WSC was a bandaid.

They probably intended something like this, but none of it worked out. Evasion tanking was barely a thing in Abyssea, let alone VW. AGI mod on a crit WS spreads your choices too thin. VIT mod on something like Torcleaver still works because you're really just choosing between STR/att, WSC, and TPBonus/WSD/multiattack to the extent those have existed at various times. Your tradeoffs are simpler and less significant. Hi you're already balancing STR/att vs WSC vs dDEX before you ever get to secondary stats, and it only worked in Abyssea because RR+GH meant 1k TP Hi had 75-90% critrate and 30% critdmg butt naked, and then you had your pick of Apocalypse or Sanguine Scythe as desired. It also has worse critrate scaling with TP than the other empyrean WS for... reasons? Not allowed to have good critrate because Innin too OP or something.

The only problem there is it basically works against both WS's since both Hi and Jishnu's are Crit WSs, and AGI only effects ranged crits, while DEX only works for melee crits. Making things intentionally worse just for the sake of making them different isn't the best idea lol

Well, actually...

WAR has access to 13 weapon typss. 12 of them have Weaponskills available (/sighs in throwing).

Hand to Hand: D - Blunt
Dagger: B- - Piercing
Sword: B - Slashing
Great Sword: B+ - Slashing
Axe: A - Slashing
Great Axe: A+ - Slashing
Scythe: B+ - Slashing
Polearm: B- - Piercing
Club: B- - Blunt
Staff: B - Blunt
Archery: D - Piercing/Ranged
Marksmanship: D - Piercing/Ranged
Throwing: D - Piercing/Ranged

8/13 are not slashing. The two weapon categories it gets no innate skill in are Katana and Great Katana, which are both slashing. But in spite of being the largest individual pool of damage type, even with all 15 weapon types included, Piercing and Blunt combined still outnumber Slashing by 8 to 7.

Or put another way, there are 7 slashing weapons, 3 blunt weapons, and 5 piercing weapons in the game. And then slashing is only overrepresented because it has 1 handed varieties of the, "Great" weapons.

Even on piercing weak mobs Shining One isn't better than Naegling though really. Only on Medusa maybe.

Ehh, not really? Naegling SB spam doesn't SC at all. Like you can self light on almost any sword job, but it means your first two WS aren't SB.

Relevant because Shining One can self 3 step Darkness on all 4 jobs that are on it, with variable results. WAR and SAM at a minimum can practically max damage Stardiver > mediocre Sonic > max damage Impulse and put out 3 instances of 99999 along with the middle Sonic/Distortion in the same or faster time that any Naegling build will put out 3 SBs. Which if all 3 SBs deal max damage is still less. Even without SCing can just spam Impulse and have better white damage at the same time.

The real issue would be that the gap isn't big enough for people to care half the time.