New Games Suck... Or Is It Just Me?
New games suck... or is it just me?
2 weeks until Monster Hunter: Wilds. In you have the time, they say Kingdom Come: Deliverance 1 and 2 are quite good.
There is a checklist of things that sell a game as being FF, Avatars (iconic monsters you can gain affinity with to help you in battle, that have a deep lore), Moogles (helping cute characters), Chocobo (iconic mounts), pretty female characters (v important), slightly effeminate and angst ridden male characters, romance to give an emotional hook, amazing graphics, awe inspiring large monsters, large varied worlds, high stakes plot, magic etc etc
If you hit a lot of these things, or make similar versions you can do it. The FF fanbase can easily be taken from Square right now, if a company puts the effort in and China is hungry asf and have cheap labor costs. Square Enix are like a one legged chicken trying to fight off a fox right now, they ain't gonna make it unless they step it up. Even the ff14 fanbase are getting angry and I never thought that was even possible.
All I could think of when playing ff16 was GoT and that's idiocy, when FF is what I want (the higher ups forced Yoshida to add moogles, chocobo etc cause he thought it didn't fit the tone). Even ff11 has many staples that let you know it's fF.
FF15 was as sausage fest, and if you're going for that they needed to be much different characters and not a boyband knockoff.
If you hit a lot of these things, or make similar versions you can do it. The FF fanbase can easily be taken from Square right now, if a company puts the effort in and China is hungry asf and have cheap labor costs. Square Enix are like a one legged chicken trying to fight off a fox right now, they ain't gonna make it unless they step it up. Even the ff14 fanbase are getting angry and I never thought that was even possible.
All I could think of when playing ff16 was GoT and that's idiocy, when FF is what I want (the higher ups forced Yoshida to add moogles, chocobo etc cause he thought it didn't fit the tone). Even ff11 has many staples that let you know it's fF.
FF15 was as sausage fest, and if you're going for that they needed to be much different characters and not a boyband knockoff.
They are pretty meh.
I've been enjoying Infinity Nikki tho. I got MHW so hopefully that is decent!
I've been enjoying Infinity Nikki tho. I got MHW so hopefully that is decent!
Asura.Iamaman said: »
I honestly don't pay much attention to Metacritic scores. I feel like a lot of the gaming industry has boiled the frog into mediocrity and this is a good example, DD2 having an 86 is another good example.
I'm not saying it's an objectively bad game, it's just that it seems meh to me and forgettable. Some of the UI and NPC interactions make the game look really dated. The quest design I gather is mostly a bunch of small, repetitive quests that aren't impactful. Some of the dialogue options are lol (https://youtu.be/6VGD1qJ9a1k?t=595), the voice acting at time seems really weird and out of place, and the aesthetics of some of the NPCs just looks bizarre (although I'd admit this has more to do with in universe lore in some ways). You can't really explore or engage with the world the way you can in other first
person RPG titles. I gather the story is kinda meh also.
The real disappointment for me is the combat, which does at first glance appear engaging, but when you peel back the layers of it - it looks like it's just hold button until dead with a few flashy effects and numbers around it. If you've ever played a game like Dark Messiah, it's a stark contrast to how engaging combat like this could be where you can kick mobs off walls, into spikes, force them to slip, and a number of other things. I also gather melee focus if you don't wanna play a mage is completely dull, so you are basically forced into being a magic user.
I think it's less that there's something wrong with the game and more asking what is right about it. They had all the pieces but put them together in a way that just seems uninspired and empty. You could compare it to titles in this category like Dark Messiah, Skyrim, Fallout, even some FPS games that pull in some fantasy elements and it just lacks the creativity of the way those games implement the world, combat, or story. You could even compare it to KC:D2 in a lot of ways, which gets a lot of this right although
having some issues, it's an engaging and interesting game to play with good writing, VA, direction, and engaging/varied combat.
I'm not saying it's an objectively bad game, it's just that it seems meh to me and forgettable. Some of the UI and NPC interactions make the game look really dated. The quest design I gather is mostly a bunch of small, repetitive quests that aren't impactful. Some of the dialogue options are lol (https://youtu.be/6VGD1qJ9a1k?t=595), the voice acting at time seems really weird and out of place, and the aesthetics of some of the NPCs just looks bizarre (although I'd admit this has more to do with in universe lore in some ways). You can't really explore or engage with the world the way you can in other first
person RPG titles. I gather the story is kinda meh also.
The real disappointment for me is the combat, which does at first glance appear engaging, but when you peel back the layers of it - it looks like it's just hold button until dead with a few flashy effects and numbers around it. If you've ever played a game like Dark Messiah, it's a stark contrast to how engaging combat like this could be where you can kick mobs off walls, into spikes, force them to slip, and a number of other things. I also gather melee focus if you don't wanna play a mage is completely dull, so you are basically forced into being a magic user.
I think it's less that there's something wrong with the game and more asking what is right about it. They had all the pieces but put them together in a way that just seems uninspired and empty. You could compare it to titles in this category like Dark Messiah, Skyrim, Fallout, even some FPS games that pull in some fantasy elements and it just lacks the creativity of the way those games implement the world, combat, or story. You could even compare it to KC:D2 in a lot of ways, which gets a lot of this right although
having some issues, it's an engaging and interesting game to play with good writing, VA, direction, and engaging/varied combat.
I watched a few review videos and besides technical issues(which is expected from an Obsidian game anyways), I still don't see serious design direction issue.
That being said, I would also never expect an obsidian entertainment game plays like Arcane studios game(Dark Messiah) or bethesda game.
Arcane studio focus on making immersive sim type of games, of course you'll see more "combat freedom" in their battle system. It's the core concept of immersive sims: give you lots of tools to solve a problem however you want.
Likewise bethesda also has different strength. They are good at making a very large world with tons of details and interactions.
I always feel Obsidian is same kind of niche title developer like Troika Games. They often have unique ideas in their game, but it is never executed perfectly, possibly due to the lack of budget. As a result they have small amount of die hard fans but never reach mainstream like bethesda, Larian or CD Projekt RED.
Oh and anyone who has followed Obsidian for years would expect bugs at release, lol. They've been releasing technical disasters since....KOTOR2?
Edit: I was also mildly entertained by the "smile dangerously" dialogue in the review video, lol. I guess that's what makes obsidian game niche. You are either into their writing style or you don't.
Avowed looks like just another Obsidian game. Outer Worlds in a fantasy setting instead of sci-fi. 7/10 seems appropriate.
Another Chinese win, that Tides of Annihilation everything 16 wishes it was.
YouTube Video Placeholder
Devil May Cry type game? The voice acting is good too.
Asura.Eiryl said: »
Another Chinese win, that Tides of Annihilation everything 16 Valkyrie Elysium wishes it was.
Fixed! From the trailer it looks more like combat focused character action game without that much focus on cinematic cutscenes.
Kaffy said: »
Not gonna lie, Nightreign not very appealing to me. Used to be a big FROMSOFT fanboy and I appreciate them for trying something new, but I will def be passing on this.
I'm gonna need a demo for sure. Not having cross play is going to be a big strike regardless.
Viciouss said: »
I'm gonna need a demo for sure
Nightreign looks like something that was pushed by Bandai, just as a means to milk money from the fanbase. It's a bandwagon meme game using assets from previous titles, basically an asset flip mod.
It's always the way that when anything is a niche it retains respect for the audience, but once it blows up (as Elden Ring did) it gains the full attention of the suits and then they start doing stuff like this and destroy the good will of the fanbase.
I don't think it's a bad game, but it's obviously just a cash grab and wasting time of very talented developers who could be doing something better. The time they wasted on this could have been spent remastering bloodborne for ps5/pc.
Neightreign doesn't look like it will be anything special and seems pretty shallow, I think people will get bored of it pretty fast.
It's always the way that when anything is a niche it retains respect for the audience, but once it blows up (as Elden Ring did) it gains the full attention of the suits and then they start doing stuff like this and destroy the good will of the fanbase.
I don't think it's a bad game, but it's obviously just a cash grab and wasting time of very talented developers who could be doing something better. The time they wasted on this could have been spent remastering bloodborne for ps5/pc.
Neightreign doesn't look like it will be anything special and seems pretty shallow, I think people will get bored of it pretty fast.
"We created a best-selling, critically-approved IP that's a break from our niche market into the mainstream. It'd be dumb to not capitalize on that massive success & let the IP rot away. Let's start the milking process with this PVE Fortnight simulator"
This game bolsters my dislike for Elden Ring & its mainstream status lol
This game bolsters my dislike for Elden Ring & its mainstream status lol
Viciouss said: »
2 weeks until Monster Hunter: Wilds. In you have the time, they say Kingdom Come: Deliverance 1 and 2 are quite good.
I heard Kingdom Come: Deliverance 2 broke even one week after release. The developer expected 2 to perform even better than 1.
(This game is also on my wishlist once I cleared current backlog, lol)
Western games are still alive and kicking.
Edit: it sold 2m in 2 weeks.
Afania said: »
Viciouss said: »
2 weeks until Monster Hunter: Wilds. In you have the time, they say Kingdom Come: Deliverance 1 and 2 are quite good.
I heard Kingdom Come: Deliverance 2 broke even one week after release. The developer expected 2 to perform even better than 1.
(This game is also on my wishlist once I cleared current backlog, lol)
Western games are still alive and kicking.
Another RA conspiracy sent through the woodchipper.
“Alive and kicking” is quite the bold statement. How many bug budget western games were successful since 2024?
Veilguard, Ss-KtJL, concord, SW outlaws all flopped. AC:Shadows is likely to fall down that path.
The number of flops outweigh the successes and you cant deny that. Thats alive and barely breathing.
Veilguard, Ss-KtJL, concord, SW outlaws all flopped. AC:Shadows is likely to fall down that path.
The number of flops outweigh the successes and you cant deny that. Thats alive and barely breathing.
Carbuncle.Nynja said: »
“Alive and kicking” is quite the bold statement. How many bug budget western games were successful since 2024?
Veilguard, Ss-KtJL, concord, SW outlaws all flopped. AC:Shadows is likely to fall down that path.
The number of flops outweigh the successes and you cant deny that. Thats alive and barely breathing.
Veilguard, Ss-KtJL, concord, SW outlaws all flopped. AC:Shadows is likely to fall down that path.
The number of flops outweigh the successes and you cant deny that. Thats alive and barely breathing.
"Western game" is a broad term. It only means games made by westerners. Which means any budget of games made by westerners, it is a western game.
Which also means there will be thousands if not tens of thousands of games per year that are technically "western games".
The games you listed above are like 5 titles out of 17k games released per year. Even if they fail, it doesn't mean most western games are failing.
Now that if you limit your range to "big budget western games", then yeah, you can probably make the statement that big budget western games often fail but it is only because spending 100m+ on one game costs too much.
Just fyi, KC:D II's budget was only 41m or so, they said they broke even with 1m sales after week 1.
In other words, if DAV only cost 40m to make it would have been perfectly profitable with 1.5m buyers.
If those titles flop, it's because of the cost really. You can't expect every game to be 9.5/10 masterpiece selling 10m copies. Most above average games will be 7/10 "junk food game" that sold 500k-1m. It's entirely budget problem if people are spending 100m+ budget to make a 7/10 game and expect it to sell as many copies as those 9.5/10 masterpieces.
tl;Dr: I don't think western games are dying. It's those super big 100m-300m productions are dying. There are still plenty of market for 2.5A games like KC:D II that's made with a much lower cost and they can survive perfectly fine with only 1m sales.
Afania said: »
17k games released per year.
Carbuncle.Nynja said: »
The number of flops outweigh the successes and you cant deny that. Thats alive and barely breathing.
Not even remotely accurate. You realize the highest selling games in North America last year were almost entirely made in the West, right? Not just last year, either. You can go back over a decade. It's not going to be any different this year, either.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1285658/top-ranked-video-games-sales-annual/
Not sure why Hogwarts is there, because its an early 2023 game, nonetheless, of the top 13 games on this list, two are CoD and five are sports games.
https://www.circana.com/intelligence/entertainment-top-10/2024/top-10-video-games/
Same list, same order, so I think its accurate.
https://gamerant.com/best-selling-video-games-2024/
Again, same order, so I'm certain this is very accurate. Two CoD games and five Sports games. Of the remaining top ten:
Helldivers Western (Arrowhead in Sweden, published by Sony)
Dragon Ball: Sparking! Zero Eastern (Spike Chunsoft, published by Bandai Namco)
Elden Ring Eastern (FromSoftware, published by Bandi Namco)
Viciouss wrong, again.
Quote:
Call of Duty: Black Ops 6 1
EA Sports College Football 25 2
Helldivers II 3
Dragon Ball: Sparking! Zero 4
NBA 2K25** 5
Madden NFL 25 6
Call of Duty: Modern Warfare III (2023) 7
EA Sports FC 25 8
Elden Ring 9
EA Sports MVP Bundle 10
Hogwarts Legacy 11
Dragon’s Dogma II 12
WWE 2K24**
EA Sports College Football 25 2
Helldivers II 3
Dragon Ball: Sparking! Zero 4
NBA 2K25** 5
Madden NFL 25 6
Call of Duty: Modern Warfare III (2023) 7
EA Sports FC 25 8
Elden Ring 9
EA Sports MVP Bundle 10
Hogwarts Legacy 11
Dragon’s Dogma II 12
WWE 2K24**
Not sure why Hogwarts is there, because its an early 2023 game, nonetheless, of the top 13 games on this list, two are CoD and five are sports games.
https://www.circana.com/intelligence/entertainment-top-10/2024/top-10-video-games/
Quote:
Call of Duty: Black Ops 6 1
EA Sports College Football 25 2
Helldivers II 3
Dragon Ball: Sparking! Zero 4
NBA 2K25** 5
Madden NFL 25 6
Call of Duty: Modern Warfare III (2023) 7
EA Sports FC 25 8
Elden Ring 9
EA Sports MVP Bundle 10
EA Sports College Football 25 2
Helldivers II 3
Dragon Ball: Sparking! Zero 4
NBA 2K25** 5
Madden NFL 25 6
Call of Duty: Modern Warfare III (2023) 7
EA Sports FC 25 8
Elden Ring 9
EA Sports MVP Bundle 10
https://gamerant.com/best-selling-video-games-2024/
Quote:
Call of Duty: Black Ops 6
EA Sports College Football 25
Helldivers 2
Dragon Ball: Sparking! Zero
NBA 2K25
Madden NFL 25
Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3 (2023)
EA Sports FC 25
Elden Ring
EA Sports MVP Bundle
EA Sports College Football 25
Helldivers 2
Dragon Ball: Sparking! Zero
NBA 2K25
Madden NFL 25
Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3 (2023)
EA Sports FC 25
Elden Ring
EA Sports MVP Bundle
Helldivers Western (Arrowhead in Sweden, published by Sony)
Dragon Ball: Sparking! Zero Eastern (Spike Chunsoft, published by Bandai Namco)
Elden Ring Eastern (FromSoftware, published by Bandi Namco)
Viciouss wrong, again.
How am I wrong when everything I said is correct? Just because you don't like the games, doesn't make me wrong. The highest selling games of last year were almost entirely made in the West.
Every sports game and every CoD game is a carbon copy of its predecessor with maybe a few changes sprinkled around here and there. These will sell no matter what. Theres a reason we said that Veilguard could flop and BioWare/EA wouldnt give a ***because of their cash cow sports games.
Carbuncle.Nynja said: »
Every sports game and every CoD game is a carbon copy of its predecessor with maybe a few changes sprinkled around here and there. These will sell no matter what. Theres a reason we said that Veilguard could flop and BioWare/EA wouldnt give a ***because of their cash cow sports games.
Uh, yep. Still doesn't make anything I said incorrect. However your claim that Western games are "barely breathing" certainly doesn't look good.
[+]
I will say that College Football 25 was actually pretty solid. It was a game that the fans wanted, haven't had one in 10 or so years. So EA at least did that one right.
So what you're saying is western game devs can't put out any original content, all they're good for is putting out a rehashed CoD or updating the rosters of their previous sports game.
Thats really not the slam dunk you think it is.
edit: to add
No other company can put out similar sports games. Well, they could, but it would consist of made up team names and players. EA has the rights to the leagues stuff, which is why they're able to monopolize this market. It would be a massive undertaking to usurp EA in the sports videogame market without the actual teams and players.
Thats really not the slam dunk you think it is.
edit: to add
No other company can put out similar sports games. Well, they could, but it would consist of made up team names and players. EA has the rights to the leagues stuff, which is why they're able to monopolize this market. It would be a massive undertaking to usurp EA in the sports videogame market without the actual teams and players.
Carbuncle.Nynja said: »
So what you're saying is western game devs can't put out any original content, all they're good for is putting out a rehashed CoD or updating the rosters of their previous sports game.
Thats really not the slam dunk you think it is.
edit: to add
No other company can put out similar sports games. Well, they could, but it would consist of made up team names and players. EA has the rights to the leagues stuff, which is why they're able to monopolize this market. It would be a massive undertaking to usurp EA in the sports videogame market without the actual teams and players.
Thats really not the slam dunk you think it is.
edit: to add
No other company can put out similar sports games. Well, they could, but it would consist of made up team names and players. EA has the rights to the leagues stuff, which is why they're able to monopolize this market. It would be a massive undertaking to usurp EA in the sports videogame market without the actual teams and players.
No, I never said that. I simply said that Western game devs lead the industry in sales every year. It's an easy, breakaway slam dunk. It's guaranteed to happen in 2025 as well. The only person that has been wrong here is you when you said they were "barely breathing."
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