How Could SE Realistically Improve Modern FFXI?

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How could SE realistically improve modern FFXI?
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 Phoenix.Iocus
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By Phoenix.Iocus 2024-05-18 10:45:58
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We might not like how they made access to endgame for new players, but they did provide it. Naegling.

I hate it, you hate it, Bumba hates it, but it's there.

After that, it's understanding the culture of this particular game and not being a problematic player. I've spent too much time trying to teach people who were bad at other MMOs and were rewarded for it there that it doesn't work here. Leroy Jenkins didn't get the cookie and so they're angry, where as the rest of us know that playing the game with others that are pleasant is the cookie.

(Or run 6 accounts + react and pay SE up to $156 monthly to play a single player version of this game.)

BlackmoreKnight said: »
Someone that's attracted to the game by or falls in love with one of those jobs is not going to have a great time, unfortunately.
I would argue I'm having a great time any time I'm playing a pet job but I agree with what you're saying. There is a disconnect at endgame without being very knowledgeable about pet jobs in general and finding others to play them with you that understand them as well. My wife and I have had BSTs and a PUP for a long time, so plaudit farming has been very fun. I enjoy BST and PUP in Odyssey a lot because the essence of pet jobs for both of us is playing a job that have always been unfair but not in a straightforward way. The more recent adjustments to eva/m.eva and crit are all very complimentary to MLs actually doing a lot for pet jobs, but they aren't quite enough to make everything a pet job utopia.

---
The big change I would make to the game to improve job diversity and give people something new to try would be to split Nyame into 2 different sets. The first set only has options for A and B. The second set is for C and D. Not taking B path is genuinely a hard nerf to most jobs. I actually use Nyame A path for the head but that's because it doesn't penalize any of my favorite jobs. But there is no way I can make that sacrifice or compromise for D path. I think this change would address pet jobs in general because you can afford to go all in on D path while still having either A or B for PUP and BST, technically SMN too. I think this works for people who prefer mages because you get access to C path if you're not dead set on pets and would be a big boost to Ninja being able to be played well in diverse situations.

I also feel strongly that you should be able to do extra work or quests to get a 2nd version of any of the major earring or ring choices in the game. Link it behind Master Trials and I'm all in, when my motivations for doing the content was tepid at best.

I don't pretend to believe that this wouldn't change balance and create a new list of winners and losers. Just that it seems silly to have "CHOICES" that aren't really choices for most people and that directly affects people's ability to play some jobs as well as they would like while it doesn't affect others at all.
 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2024-05-18 11:02:02
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BlackmoreKnight said: »
I don't know the solution to this, I'm not even sure there realistically is one or one that SE would be interested in implementing at this stage of the game's lifespan, but the "on-ramp" to endgame so to speak is miserable. An incoming player spends the first 100 or so hours solo until they got all the stories and limit breaks done and their first 99, maybe some more time spent getting a second job to 99 or soloing VE-N V2 Ambuscade for some starter gear, and then slams into the brick wall. That wall being "play one of like three supports that functions in low gear, pay for merc stuff, or just spend the next year or two slowly soloing a REMA". At no point in this process do you have the opportunity to learn grouping culture and norms in XI, nor what's generally expected of your role or job in group content. Instead you just have the DD trusts beat everything up for you. The first "real group" someone might find themselves in would probably be for Ambuscade V1N these days, or maybe Dyna-D RP farms if they're in a social LS. Not the best places to learn how to actually play WHM.

Hmm not really, well not in the way you think.

I've leveled up an alt and went through every expansion and mission fight until I hit Abyssea / SoA, where I deliberately stopped. SE introduced this thing called RoV which makes all the older content massively easier to do. Combine that with trusts and various QoL buffs and it's not hard to get to the iLevel world. The real difficulty is finding friends to go run through the upper iLevel content with you for JSE upgrades or just a V1 kill on the various Gaol bosses. R0~15 Gaol gear is ridiculously powerful. Not to mention ML20~30 is piss easy to get and represents another massive power boost.

The only real barriers is that the current model has everyone broken into small private six member teams. That is extremely daunting for a returning player, so much that they'll quit if they can't find a social group to hang out and achieve meaningful progression with.

For the "required support job", that really is just for higher end content but GEO is probably the easiest to get into. Dunna can get you through everything but the hardest tier of content. Then it's WHM, which has a low gear threshold but a ridiculously high skill threshold. Then COR, the BRD being the one practically requiring a laundry list of exclusive legendary stuff.
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By Dodik 2024-05-18 11:06:42
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I think we are well beyond the point where a 22 year old game with huge gear and power creep can realistically cater to new players, or even expect any new players.

Anyone starting this game now probably has some experience and knows it will be a steep hill to climb back up unless they get carried.
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By zeta 2024-05-18 12:03:26
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I want more inventory for than anything right now. 2x, 3x, all the X's
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 Phoenix.Capuchin
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By Phoenix.Capuchin 2024-05-18 12:08:05
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Carbuncle.Maletaru said: »
I definitely agree about the job balance thing, but I view it more as a feature of the game than a flaw. At the end of the day, the thing that makes the game so special, unique, and fun is the fact that the jobs are extremely different to each other and NOT balanced. This and the complexity of the mechanics really make for a deeply engaging, though deeply confusing, experience. It's a strength and a weakness, but I would personally not want to see that changed at all, it would undermine the greatest strength the game has going for it.

As someone who recently tried XIV again just for curiosity of doing the story and seeing the world (I detest the GCD mechanics)… oh HELL yes, this is a huge part of XI’s secret sauce. Great comment.
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 Bahamut.Celebrindal
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By Bahamut.Celebrindal 2024-05-18 12:13:57
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The destruction of alliance-content really has hurt the variety possible....I don't fault SE for realizing that true 18-man content is hard to cater to any more, but I do think they jumped the gun in skipping any trials of 12-man content.
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 Bahamut.Jhesi
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By Bahamut.Jhesi 2024-05-18 12:14:45
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Dodik said: »
I think we are well beyond the point where a 22 year old game with huge gear and power creep can realistically cater to new players, or even expect any new players.

Anyone starting this game now probably has some experience and knows it will be a steep hill to climb back up unless they get carried.
Any time your game resets progress, it's more attractive to new players because everyone starts on the same level playing field. To my knowledge, X|V does this with every expansion, and XI had done this both with the raising level caps during Abyssea, and then with the introduction of Item Levels in Adoulin.

Resetting progress sucks for everybody who worked hard on their old gear, but is almost a requirement for keeping a fresh influx of people trying your game.

XI almost gets around this by allowing you to level up some of your older gear. It's probably the smartest MMORPG ever in that sense. What they could stand to do in order to make it more appealing is to replace some of the tedious low-level grind with higher-level options. I appreciate Aeonics because they're genuinely challenging to acquire, but take far less time and less grind than something like Mythics, which require you to do Lv.60-75 content for hundreds of hours.

Regarding onboarding new players, I genuinely do think XI isn't completely beyond help. But it would require a lot of development time and resources.
 Carbuncle.Maletaru
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By Carbuncle.Maletaru 2024-05-18 12:49:07
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Bahamut.Jhesi said: »
which require you to do Lv.60-75 content for hundreds of hours.

Eh...maybe if you're solo farming all the alexandrite.
Assaults: ~6 hours
ZNM: ~5 hours
Einherjar: ~4 hours
Nyzul: ~8 hours

If you want to include trials, I'd say about ~10 more hours there. Not even remotely approaching 100 hours, let alone hundreds
 Shiva.Thorny
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By Shiva.Thorny 2024-05-18 13:05:03
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I don't disagree with your point, but those numbers are extremely optimistic to bordering on impossible if not using third party tools. You're also assuming 0 task switch penalty for einherjar and assaults. I think even above average players would be hard pressed to do assaults in under 9 hours, nyzul in under 10 hours, unless you're stopping the clock whenever outside the zone. Einherjar as well, with travel time to nashmau and hazhalm, it's probably twice that.

Then, you have to consider that the average player who hasn't done the content(or is too stupid to learn from doing the content) isn't going to be as efficient as someone who has.. it's just unrealistic.
 Carbuncle.Maletaru
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By Carbuncle.Maletaru 2024-05-18 13:50:25
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Fair point, I was estimating this based on how long it takes ME which isn't really indicative of a new player who's never done any assaults before. I also didn't add in time for menuing, warping, etc. which will add up over time. I was probably under by ~20% or so because of this, and being new to the content, looking up the stuff on wiki etc. will add some amount of time.

That said, 150~200 hours is off by like...3-4x, so I feel like mine is still a more accurate picture of the experience.

Granted, the trials will also take pretty significantly longer if you suck at them and/or don't have mule support to speed them up.

YMMV, but I doubt anyone is spending 200 hours on any mythic no matter how much they suck, and if they're soloing 150k tokens with nobody else in the party...that ain't on me or SE imo.
 Asura.Eiryl
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By Asura.Eiryl 2024-05-18 14:18:37
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I mean, all in if you did the 300 salvages at 100 alex average, that's 300 half hours. Which you DO have to count I would say obviously. Which is 150 hours right off the top. Average is slightly better than an even 100 and it's slightly faster than 30 minutes after youve done it 100 times to learn it.

"Buy the alex" then you have to count the farm time the same as salvage time. They ain't got 200m just layin around and they aren't going to beat 150 hours by much trying to farm it and if they try then their entire play experience is nothing but farming and logging off.

457 caveats later, and years of optimization and muscle memory, it won't be 200 hours anymore. But that's not the new user experience.
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 Bismarck.Nickeny
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By Bismarck.Nickeny 2024-05-18 14:22:31
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The downfall of the fun factor in FFXI was that they decided 6 man content should be where you get the best gear in the game from.

funny now that I think about it that AF+Relic +2 and +3 were all alliance content but they decided on 6 man for sortie and look how that turned out lol.
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By Dodik 2024-05-18 14:46:04
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Sortie is fine, at least you get some incremental progress regardless if you make 10k solo or 40-50k in a group. Huge grind, daily, but doable incrementally none the less. If you just don't like purple hallways you won't like it no matter if it takes 6 months, 9 months or two months.

Odyssey you can spend days/weeks/months trying to clear one NM and have nothing to show for it. I have seen many a group give up because of this.
 Carbuncle.Nynja
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By Carbuncle.Nynja 2024-05-18 14:47:34
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Those groups are weak willed.

Nick spent 22 years on Mboze.
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 Bismarck.Nickeny
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By Bismarck.Nickeny 2024-05-18 15:09:06
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Carbuncle.Nynja said: »
Nick spent 22 years on Mboze.

I wonder if my Variant from a different timeline named Nickwny beat V25 bumba yet.
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By Pantafernando 2024-05-18 15:18:47
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Your variant came here yesterday to tell us that in his timeline Lavos already destroyed the world, and that the only way to prevent it to destroy our world is to R30 Nyame
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By kinkanat 2024-05-18 16:22:12
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Another important thing to keep players coming back or seeing the game better is to do something about bots and mercenaries and multi-accounts.

The last time I returned to the game last year I was there for a few days and in most of the shouts I went to they asked me to have an anchor or some other illegal cheat, come on, cheating is something that is too accepted in the game nowadays.

And the amount of mercenary shouts and bots is insulting, it means there are fewer useful shouts and less life.

This was the main reason why both me and my friends left the game, it was overwhelming to see how many people play multibox and use programs that automate the game, giving the impression that you are playing with a machine instead of a real player.
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 Carbuncle.Maletaru
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By Carbuncle.Maletaru 2024-05-18 17:06:28
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kinkanat said: »
Stuff

Tell me you're on Asura, without telling me you're on Asura.
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 Carbuncle.Nynja
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By Carbuncle.Nynja 2024-05-18 17:28:24
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Ragnarok.Caramonn
last AH transaction: Aug. 29, 2017

Asura.Caramonn
last AH transaction: Dec. 28, 2023

YouTube Video Placeholder
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By K123 2024-05-18 17:32:34
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If it wasn't for multiboxing I and many many others would have quit a decade ago. If you stopped people playing more than one account the game would be over tomorrow.
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 Cerberus.Dekar
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By Cerberus.Dekar 2024-05-18 18:23:43
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I’ve been thinking about this question a lot recently. I’ve spoken to a few other people and noticed what people have said on these forums across a few different threads. Some of these are a repeat of what others have said. Sadly, it’s safe to say that a new expansion or job isn’t likely.

Updated BCNMs
1) Add unique drops to new BCs, somewhat like the Flan Princess fight. Maybe not that time-gated, but certainly nothing with Shinryu’s absurd drop rates.

2) Let these unique items allow us to change up play styles. They mentioned the AMAN trove specific items were created for more niche sets, give us more unique items like that for prizes.

3) Create hardmode versions of The Wyrmking Descends (I know they just added a new Bahamut Master trial, but let’s get a new version of the original “big” Bahamut fight).

4) Create i119 version of the three mini-expansions final fights with iLevel armor and augments as chosen as rewards.

5) Update certain expansion reward items such as Tamas or Sattva Rings. Rajas is still lightyears ahead of the other rings. Most ToAU rings need to be updated.


Old Content
1) Assuming the Besieged update goes well, perhaps consider doing the same for Campaign and other old content that isn’t currently played.

Food
1) Create more unique food sales during all seasonal events (like the Green Festival already does).

2) More super unique food sales from log-in points (Like the Counter +Food)

Trusts
1) New rotation every few months (say 3-4 months). Include Cornelia, Matsui-P, and new trusts (possibly community designed).

Bonanza Weapons
1) Add these in a manner that makes them realistically possible to get. I’d love to mess around with the Hebo’s Spear or Chocobo Knife, but I can’t mentally justify it over some of the incredibly unique ones like the katana.

2) Maybe even only having one or two at a time. Could even be swapped out once a week like Adoulin rings etc. Hell, at least add them to AMAN trove (not ideal).

3) If not this, then at least Yagyu Darkblade or something with it’s effect. Add it to Nagi or something.

Weaponskill Changes
I’m a huge fan of how unique weaponskills and skillchains make this game. I understand that certain job/subjob combos are needed to access certain weaponskills. I like the idea of promoting subjob diversity, but certain quality of life changes are due:

Marksmanship, Archery, and Hand-to-Hand
1) Certain WS exclusivity from /RNG, /COR, /MNK, /PUP need to be given to other jobs. Example: SAM should naturally have some more Archery ones than Apex Arrow (and Empyreal Arrow/Namas Arrow from Ullr/Yoichi)

Staff
2) I understand the BLM, SMN, and SCH are all the nerdiest and least physically proficient of the mage jobs, but them not having certain staff WS is stupid. They’re literally the main staff jobs.

Job Adjustments (most or all of these are unlikely, but I'd like to see SOMETHING in terms of job updates)

BLM
1) Update Magic Critical Hits I to function like Magic Critical Hit II--or at least change the BLM Empyrean gloves to be Magic Critical Hit II.

SMN
1) In general, at least let BRD and COR buffs at least hit all pets. Seriously doubt they'd ever budge on this.

2) Upscale several blood pacts (see below).

3) Add in Chaos, Phoenix, Ixion/Alicorn?

4) Increase Favor potency: Garuda, Titan, Leviathan, and Fenrir.

Odin:
--Change to either different effects or a unique party buff. Perhaps remove from Astral Flow.

Fenrir:
--Remove or strongly reduce the Moon phase for Fenrir (Lunar Cry and Heavenward Howl)
--Increase potency of Ecliptic Howl/Ecliptic Grown/Lunar Cry
--Remove enemy TP generation from Heavenward Howl damage to match other en-spells.

Diabolos:
--Remove or strongly reduce the Time of Day impact on Dream Shroud.
--Increase the potency of Dream Shroud and Noctoshield.

Ifrit:
--Increase the potency of Crimson Howl.

Titan:
--Increase the potency of Earthen Ward.

Shiva:
--Increase the potency of Diamond Storm.

Leviathan:
--Increase the potency of Soothing Current.

PUP
1) In general, at least let BRD and COR buffs at least hit all pets. Seriously doubt they'd ever budge on this.

2) Change Ventriloquy to function like BST’s Snarl.

3) Give Soulsoother Head access to Curaga line of spells. Trusts have done this for years, no reason not to update this.

4) Change Inhibitors by removing the waiting to WS when the master is 900+ TP. Move WS AI changes to Speedloaders.

Update Optic Fiber I/II:
--Whatever bonus to normal attachments from OF are applied to the Puppetmaster, too.

--Example: OF I/II give a total of effectiveness of +50% with one light maneuver. With Inhibitor II and two fire maneuvers the automaton gains +40 Store TP. Having one light maneuver on would give the master +20 Store TP on top of the extra +20 to the Automaton.

--Certain attachments would need to be tweaked with how they affect the master. Truesights could give Crit Hit Damage +, etc. Turbo Chargers would be cool if they were JA haste, but I’d take magical haste, too. Barrier Module changed to Guard+. Would be cool if Armor Plates worked but they should probably just be DEF+ for the master. Auto-Repair Kit/Mana Tank would be rebalanced for master. Damage gauge changed to Cure Casting Time -. Repeater changed to DA+ for master to stack with Coilers.

--Burden + on some would increase with master’s bonus from Heat Capacitor, Ice Maker, etc.

--No effect: Attuner/Target Marker?, Reactive Shield, Tactical Processor, Scanner, Barrage Turbine, Drum Magazine, Scope, Condenser, Heatsink, Percolator (thought could probably keep this for shits and giggles), Regulator, Economizer, Disruptor

--Your SJ could be greatly expanded upon to compliment your pet. /SCH or WHM to help heal with your Auto.

NIN
1) Update Katana WS FTP or w/e to make it so Savage blade isn’t their best WS.

2) Give them access to someone with the same effect as Yagyu or add its effect to Nagi.

BLU
1) Physical Blue Magic: increase damage.

2) Magic Blue Magic: make it so you can naturally MB blue magic. Have Burst Affinity still increase the spell’s damage etc.

3) Chain Affinity: work on a charge system upon activation. Can use up to 3 at a time.

4) Unbridled Learning lowered recast or remove certain spells from it.

Subjobs:
Give a Bell/Harp to All jobs. Maybe Song/Geomancy +1~2 or something. /BRD and /GEO are in no danger of displacing either those jobs in endgame content.
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By Dodik 2024-05-18 18:50:11
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Bruh. The thread says realistically improve.

You have 10,000 words of wishful thinking, jelly beans and rainbows.
 Cerberus.Dekar
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By Cerberus.Dekar 2024-05-18 19:50:55
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I’ll admit, any of the job adjustments are extremely unlikely.

However, I don’t think many of the BCNM updates, food, trusts, and or even weaponskill changes are completely unreasonable. The food vendors are easy enough. At worst they might have to create a few new foods.

SE can already give and take Cornelia and player-designed trusts have already happened with Matsui-P. Setting up a rotation a few times a year is easy.

The Bonanza weapons being gated in a game that’s in “maintenance mode” makes zero sense. Some of them are absurdly powerful like the katana or horn, but many are a novelty or have never even been tested. Having to spend a winning bonanza marble to even test Dragon Fangs or Hebo’s Spear is bonkers.

The weaponskill suggestion are pushing the limit, but the “staff jobs” missing many of the elemental staff is asinine.

Dodik said: »
You have 10,000 words of wishful thinking, jelly beans and rainbows.
For the record, someone randomly gifted me some Buttered Popcorn Jelly Bellys this week. It's not something I would ever buy for myself but I tried them because of your response. This might be one of the best candy discoveries of my adult life. So, sincerely, thank you for that.
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 Cerberus.Shadowmeld
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By Cerberus.Shadowmeld 2024-05-18 21:50:16
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Two things I would love, but don’t think are realistic.

Update network infrastructure. Kinda ridiculous that the games network traffic is still basically locked at 56k speed at this time. Would be a huge qol thing.

Native implementation of the cross hot bar from xiv. (Literally the only thing I really like from xiv)
 Siren.Dekoda
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By Siren.Dekoda 2024-05-18 22:04:59
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An all jobs Ambuscade cape.
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 Carbuncle.Nynja
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By Carbuncle.Nynja 2024-05-18 22:11:51
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How are they gonna sell 6 extra wardrobes then?
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 Phoenix.Iocus
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By Phoenix.Iocus 2024-05-18 22:30:50
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Change every merit WS that doesn't increase in ftp to critical WSs with a baseline crit chance equivalent to Shining One or add more ftp increasing gear like fotia.
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By Jetackuu 2024-05-18 22:32:08
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18 man sortie, ody. Stack the KI for sortie like canteens.

Increase the packet size.
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By Beau 2024-05-18 23:57:50
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Make Octave Club the same as Kraken Club.
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By Dodik 2024-05-19 01:15:53
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Cerberus.Dekar said: »
This might be one of the best candy discoveries of my adult life. So, sincerely, thank you for that.

Oh for sure, jelly beans are awesome. I don't know about peanut butter flavour (yuk), but you do you.
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