Prime WS Information, Testing, Discussion

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Prime WS Information, Testing, Discussion
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 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2024-01-03 16:58:39
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I could totally see SE having Gaol mobs resist debuffs by 50% or more. That entire vent is a giant troll on the community.
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 Fenrir.Ahlen
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By Fenrir.Ahlen 2024-01-03 23:18:01
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Bahamut.Seonyx said: »
I know its nitpicking at this stage, but for any physical boss fight, run could just rayke flabra > Armor Break. Fairly certain this allows armor break to easily land on arebati, for example. Cant remember if effects still apply when hitting 0, but a sneaky tactics roll in lobby before arebati v25 would allow for some 9 mins of def down.
we have tried this still wont land armor break at least for arebati.. it helps a lot for kalunga. Also a lot of people believe they are way off attack cap on v25 NMs when the real issue is the extra 25% DT and WS wall. A 75k ws will do 56k with 25% DT... we also don't have subjob. If the WS is walled it'' drop 45k or 47.8k not sure if its additive DT or separate step.
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 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2024-01-04 09:27:23
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Fenrir.Ahlen said: »
Bahamut.Seonyx said: »
I know its nitpicking at this stage, but for any physical boss fight, run could just rayke flabra > Armor Break. Fairly certain this allows armor break to easily land on arebati, for example. Cant remember if effects still apply when hitting 0, but a sneaky tactics roll in lobby before arebati v25 would allow for some 9 mins of def down.
we have tried this still wont land armor break at least for arebati.. it helps a lot for kalunga. Also a lot of people believe they are way off attack cap on v25 NMs when the real issue is the extra 25% DT and WS wall. A 75k ws will do 56k with 25% DT... we also don't have subjob. If the WS is walled it'' drop 45k or 47.8k not sure if its additive DT or separate step.

Oh you are definitely not attack capped on them, when things like Berserk / Armor Break / Dia II drop it's very noticeable. Kalunga / Ngai / Mboze I open the fight with Armor Break, need to reapply right before the final 40% push.
Also Tomahawk acts like Rayke but for everything, it'll reduce the WS Wall and the vengeance level SDT.
 Carbuncle.Maletaru
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By Carbuncle.Maletaru 2024-01-04 10:14:24
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Asura.Saevel said: »
Oh you are definitely not attack capped on them, when things like Berserk / Armor Break / Dia II drop it's very noticeable.

While I agree with your points, including people not being attack capped, the fact that Dia/Berserk/Armor Break dropping is noticeable isn't actually evidence that you aren't attack capped. If you're attack capped at say 7k attack, mob's defense is 1500, then berserk wears off and your attack goes down to 6k, that would make you no longer attack capped and reduce your damage in a very noticeable way. Same thing by increasing the mob's defense to 1700 because Dia wore off, etc. These things will always affect your damage unless you were SO FAR above attack cap that you didn't even need them to hit the cap.

That said, PDL/attack cap is a very nebulous thing and I agree that it's not as well-understood or researched as it could be and people tend to assume songs/chaos/fury means you're attack capped against the world where I'm not sure that's always true.
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 Fenrir.Ahlen
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By Fenrir.Ahlen 2024-01-04 13:09:32
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On Arebati with honor march 4x attack songs I couldnt tell any damage difference between Bog eclipse fury + indi str + entrust agi vs Bolster fury / frailty + entrust agi. My coronach were doing basicly the same which lend me to believe I was very close to attack cap with 0 def down. On fights like kalunga I was at attack values so high /checkparam couldnt even tell me my full amount of attack (9999) also even when we had attack down on arebati my dmg barely went down (our kill we had Attack down as first aura and still had 2 min + left on timer)
 Bahamut.Celebrindal
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By Bahamut.Celebrindal 2024-01-04 13:15:51
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do be careful comparing the needs of an Annihilator RNG vs other heavy DD jobs in terms of hitting attack cap.

1. Empy+3 body with Velocity Shot up is a ridiculous piece of gear. We're talking in buffed moments a +250ratk or more (with Vel. Shot) is quite common.

2. Coronach's "+10% ranged attack" aftermath, which as well easily means an extra 300+ ratk.

Not saying your points aren't valid- just saying that we RNGs do have an easier job of it than other DDs in terms of what's needed to help us get there (buffs and debuffs).
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By SimonSes 2024-01-04 13:27:33
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Fenrir.Ahlen said: »
also even when we had attack down on arebati my dmg barely went down.

Well that would be because that aura attack down % is subtracted from your buffs, so if you have over ~230%+ attack boost (bolster fury/chaos/velocity/AM) and aura will take it down to 200% (I think it's -30%?), it's not gonna be that much of a drop.
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 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2024-01-04 13:38:36
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Fenrir.Ahlen said: »
On Arebati with honor march 4x attack songs I couldnt tell any damage difference between Bog eclipse fury + indi str + entrust agi vs Bolster fury / frailty + entrust agi. My coronach were doing basicly the same which lend me to believe I was very close to attack cap with 0 def down. On fights like kalunga I was at attack values so high /checkparam couldnt even tell me my full amount of attack (9999) also even when we had attack down on arebati my dmg barely went down (our kill we had Attack down as first aura and still had 2 min + left on timer)
Single KI V25 Arebati with Attack down Aura and >2 mins left?
Wow that's impressive! Not world record breaking maybe but still impressive.

Invite me to your pt, thanks! XD
 Fenrir.Ahlen
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By Fenrir.Ahlen 2024-01-04 15:09:39
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2 KI first KI got him to 64%
Asura.Sechs said: »
Fenrir.Ahlen said: »
On Arebati with honor march 4x attack songs I couldnt tell any damage difference between Bog eclipse fury + indi str + entrust agi vs Bolster fury / frailty + entrust agi. My coronach were doing basicly the same which lend me to believe I was very close to attack cap with 0 def down. On fights like kalunga I was at attack values so high /checkparam couldnt even tell me my full amount of attack (9999) also even when we had attack down on arebati my dmg barely went down (our kill we had Attack down as first aura and still had 2 min + left on timer)
Single KI V25 Arebati with Attack down Aura and >2 mins left?
Wow that's impressive! Not world record breaking maybe but still impressive.

Invite me to your pt, thanks! XD
2 KI first ki got him to 64% so had to do 65% to 40% with attack down.. an attempt before we had attack down at 40% and we got him to 3%.. we had an issue with bard songs falling near the end and bad wildcard or we might have won.
 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2024-01-04 15:29:46
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Fenrir.Ahlen said: »
On Arebati with honor march 4x attack songs I couldnt tell any damage difference between Bog eclipse fury + indi str + entrust agi vs Bolster fury / frailty + entrust agi. My coronach were doing basicly the same which lend me to believe I was very close to attack cap with 0 def down. On fights like kalunga I was at attack values so high /checkparam couldnt even tell me my full amount of attack (9999) also even when we had attack down on arebati my dmg barely went down (our kill we had Attack down as first aura and still had 2 min + left on timer)

Yeah .. Arribati isn't a good comparison for pretty much anything. As mentioned above Ranger gets a bunch of attack boosts and that entire fight is max damage with hate control. For something like Kalunga, that dude definitely as ~3K defense and you are burning song slots on Fire Carol II and Dirge, so only 2 Minuets. Bolster + Lucky Chaos + Berserk + Smite will have the WAR at ridiculous attack values though for that final 40% push.
 Fenrir.Ahlen
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By Fenrir.Ahlen 2024-01-04 15:50:50
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Well before I never had a good chance to check how close to attack cap I was for like v25 kalunga but now with aria I could do some quick tests. If aria adds no dmg... then not cap if it adds a lot then maybe they don't have as much attack as we thought.
 Bismarck.Zattano
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By Bismarck.Zattano 2024-01-14 02:25:11
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Tachi: Mumei modifier testing results
Damage increased by DEX confirmed.
% allocations to be determined.
If it follows the rest of the 2hand trend, most likely between
50~60%STR & 50~60%DEX
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By K123 2024-01-14 07:45:08
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So it should be a stronger WS than Fudo.
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By K123 2024-01-14 07:45:12
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So it should be a stronger WS than Fudo.
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By Taint 2024-01-14 10:31:53
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Pretty sure Ejiin said it’s about 10% stronger.

It’s a great prime, SAM gains TP fast for scaling and it opens up a much stronger darkness options while still being great at 5 step light.
 Bismarck.Zattano
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By Bismarck.Zattano 2024-01-14 16:41:06
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More Mumei testing, FTP focused on this one.
No PDL or WSD mods applied, aside from AM3.
 Bismarck.Zattano
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By Bismarck.Zattano 2024-01-14 16:48:33
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Taint said: »
Pretty sure Ejiin said it’s about 10% stronger.

It’s a great prime, SAM gains TP fast for scaling and it opens up a much stronger darkness options while still being great at 5 step light.



Both 3k tp with AM3. Got a lucky Fotia -TP depletion proc.
 Valefor.Prothescar
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By Valefor.Prothescar 2024-01-14 17:21:27
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In my experience Mumei handily outperforms Masamune enhanced Fudos on everything by approx 10-15k. Some of that is due to AM but Masamune's extra STR (loses this edge at stage 5 which I don't have) and Fudo+% help counter balance that. Overall a stronger WS by a pretty significant degree.

I've got a bit more samples since my post a couple pages ago and numbers are closing in on 50STR 50DEX 10.5fTP@3000. 1000 and 2000 still need more but looking at probably 3.6~ 7.25.

This places Mumei at around 31%~ higher fTP and 25% higher WSC compared to Fudo. Data is at the point where any difference in the numbers is gonna be less than 2% damage.














 Bismarck.Zattano
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By Bismarck.Zattano 2024-01-14 17:45:36
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Valefor.Prothescar said: »
This places Mumei at around 31%~ higher fTP and 25% higher WSC compared to Fudo. Data is at the point where any difference in the numbers is gonna be less than 2% damage.

31% was what around what I was seeing as well. I did a full-swap test after my last post. Mumei ran 93,424 and mumei hit 66,075.
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By SimonSes 2024-01-15 03:01:37
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Valefor.Prothescar said: »
Spoiler Alert! Click to view.
still wish there wasn't DA on the katana itself

Yep, 6%TA would be too good though and something like Zanshin: Occasionally attack twice +10% would be wet dreams.
 Bismarck.Zattano
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By Bismarck.Zattano 2024-01-15 16:01:31
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Bismarck.Zattano said: »

More Mumei testing, FTP focused on this one.
No PDL or WSD mods applied, aside from AM3.

Updated 1k no fotia damage spread. deviation was a bit high on original.
 Bismarck.Zattano
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By Bismarck.Zattano 2024-01-20 14:37:07
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More Tachi: Mumei test info. Focused on verifying effect of each attribute individually. Confirms STR and DEX mods are preset at the same or very close gains. Whereas the rest(VIT,AGL,INT,MND,CHR) are showing differences too small to count as modifiers.
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 Asura.Saevel
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By Asura.Saevel 2024-01-22 17:47:00
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Didn't have a ton of time but Fimbulvetr seems 60/60 STR/VIT and 3.3/6.6/9.9, the middle isn't as solid but I'm fairly sure the 1K is 3.3 and 3K is 9.9. SE seems to be using linear growth with the starting value based on the damage/delay.
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 Bismarck.Zattano
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By Bismarck.Zattano 2024-01-22 23:03:08
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Last bit of Mumei fTP testing(hopefully), will do a more STR/DEX Mod evaluation this weekend.
Asked a friend to run the numbers, results were fTP =3.66/7.33/11 and WSC of STR=50%/DEX=50%.
Thanks for the help Jabrolout.
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By leonbear 2024-02-03 01:49:35
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guys any suggestion idea how Origin best set for WS? thanks
 Quetzalcoatl.Xilkk
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By Quetzalcoatl.Xilkk 2024-02-03 08:29:00
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leonbear said: »
guys any suggestion idea how Origin best set for WS? thanks


IIRC all drk ws use the same ws set anyway.
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By K123 2024-02-03 08:32:53
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Except Reso
 Asura.Cebera
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By Asura.Cebera 2024-02-03 11:20:48
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leonbear said: »
guys any suggestion idea how Origin best set for WS? thanks

I maybe wrong but isn’t it the same as Catastrophe? It’s STR & INT so the same modifiers. I’ve been having good numbers using that set on my stage 3.
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By Taint 2024-02-03 12:17:38
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STR INT Is correct.

ItemSet 364962

If not earring+2 you'd use Thrud. I got a full parse in last night vs a stage 5 prime scythe. Sweet weapon for sure. Its DPS is very reliant on warcry. So find a WAR to be best friends with.
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By tallica 2024-02-03 17:50:40
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Kinda let down. In segs at least, st4 GS losing to Savage still.
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