Yoshi-P And Matsui Comment About Adding New Jobs

I generally don’t like doing job speculation like this, but why not just do something to encourage whm melee like an aoe curaga ws?

14 is getting a deep dungeon this expac cycle so i'll be sated with that.

Would love to see ilvl bahamut, limbus, or assaults tho.

Why exactly would he be talking about ffxiv in a ffxi interview on the ffxi anniversary, that is being hosted on an FFXI site when ffxiv has plenty of spaces available for "classic" FF jobs and the topic is about a lack of room for new FF jobs?

FFXIV still has room for new jobs easily. They could just add a whip for bst and copy/paste smn into a physical/ranged dps role at minimum.

Yeah that's really the problem is they only take 1 element well and then maybe 2 barely ok, and then it's all trash from there. They messed up with RUNs Gambit by making it so you want to stack 3 runes for 1 element to get max effect instead of making 1 rune do the max amount you can do for that element so it encourages you to use 3 different elements along the lines of the SC you'll be making. You get around the nuke wall by hitting fire, wind, and thunder when making light instead of everyone hitting fire because the RUN only debuffed it and nothing else.


I can see how QoL making that part of their job easier would at least make people playing WHM hate it less, so that's at least something.


Yeah I also have very little confidence that they will ever do away with the tactic of nerfing GEO when they don't want to balance it the same way they nerf blood pacts when it's convenient. That is definitely their MO and they would have to make a large shift to their game culture to accommodate anything else.


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Duh, because it's his department and he can do whatever he wants and everyone has to put up with it that is under him.

Literally every job in FFXIV can be a copy/paste so long as it can dodge circles and do a dps rotation.


I mean there is the SU5 that already did Afflatus Misery +250% and we didn't see waves of WHM reach a melee Renaissance. Esuna removes 3 extra effects on top just to make it easy. If be curious to see the numbers of how many were ever made, much less brought to max rank vs max rank path A Rostrams.

Almost every job plays the same on ff14 anyway so adding new jobs is mainly just cosmetic, they could add 500 jobs to XIV and it not be a problem at all. If you can play one job, you can play them all.

Adding new jobs to XI is a massive headache, not only in terms of balancing but planning. It's just too costly and we don't really need them.

I think we need better balancing before we ask for more jobs at this point...

Honestly, FFXI is the most balanced it's ever been in terms of jobs. The balance still isn't great, but it was far worse in the past.

I always have the same thoughts when "job balance" is mentioned- first, that in a game where one of the fundamental features is the ability to change jobs and zero limitations on number of jobs one can level/gear, is ideal "balance" truly necessary, or is what we desire actually just times where jobs are necessary, and a balance of those moments?

I don't want my DRK to do anything and everything a DRG can do in any situation. I want party leaders to have reason to bring certain DDs to certain situations- its probably the one thing Sheol:Gaol really got right in my book. There should be moments where a PLD tank is by far the best choice, and other times where a PLD gets filleted in 20 seconds while a RUN is king- or even a PUP or MNK tank. And yes, even moments where magical spells (not just general magical damage) reigns supreme.

I no longer crave ideal balance among the jobs. I just want a balance in the content so its not all the same event with different pictures in front of us.

I'm with Celebrindal. And that's honestly one of the things that I absolutely love about FFXI. What's the point of letting you change jobs if they're all overbalanced into offering exactly the same outcome as others?

Even if it means I can't take my No.1 favourite job into 100% of content, I know I can still bring it for 90% of what's out there. For the other 10%, you'll just have to have another one or two jobs ready to go anyway.

What's very unique to FFXI is that everything feeds into one another. The game gets exponentially more free-flowing the more you play around as a single character. As you level or gear-up one job, doing the same to subsequent jobs gets easier. So too is the accessibility of endgame content.

If anything, instead of focusing on balancing, they should focus on further differentiating each job.

don't get me wrong- the xanadu dreamland for FFXI that I hope for requires that each job be needed, desired, and useful, and that is one thing job adjustments can assist in. While I say I don't want complete equity between jobs within the same roles, each job does need tools to succeed.

My perfect utopia wouldn't be that each job be inherently needed, desired, and useful to explore particular content, but rather has potential to be if combined with the right team. And I think that could be possible if each job was really stretched to its limits.

For example, if Dragoon wasn't quite as damage-heavy as something like Dark Knight, but its enmity control afforded parties more flexibility with their tank or healer. Or leaning Samurai more into its ability to open skillchains, making it pair really well with harder-hitting skillchain-closers or magic-bursters.

Instead of each job being inherently better/worse/equal to its peers, you could fine-tune your party to take advantage of the job you want to play.

Monkey's paw curls: Empyrean +2/+3 armor event revisits the Voidwatch proc system. "EX 555 BLUE MAGE SPELL GO!", "NEED AN AUTOMATON PROC!" :(

I wish nightmares upon you tonight, you monster.

Voidwatch was the single best inclusion event they ever did.

You couldn't just bring 12 ctrl1 mashers and 3 hasters 3 healers. You should be so lucky if they would bring that level of dedication to the next content.

The only time in the games history you "needed" to use something other than mash ctrl1, of course people hated it.

I will say one thing about the proc system: it made me happy to see all the Blue Mages who skipped 99% of their spells have to scramble to learn crap like 1000 Needles while I already had every single spell up to that point XD

proc system wasn't that bad, was more the amount of procs, in abyssea this was mostly related to weapon skill procs, but in VW they doubled down and made magic miserable too, if they made it instead of this 1 specific element spell it was any 1 spell in this range of element spells, i.e stone elemental magic was stone 5-6 stonega 3, stonera 3, stoneja, or say dagger ws was any dagger WS shark bite and above. itd have been far less of a headache, specially on the part of blu since i think you couldnt fit all the proc spells in at one time so if it was one you missed, welp.

I do give SE credit for the attempt, but to be brought to an event just because of a single ability/spell/WS for proc purposes was flat out insulting. There were the members of the alliance there to do real work, and then there was half of the ally just there for procs. That's not inclusion, that's forced integration.

Just because people did it poorly, didn't make it bad.

Could've easily not forced a blue to stack only proc spells by bringing more blues. Easily replaced a monk with a pup. Easily had a DRK instead of a 4th war. (we usually had 3-4 monks 3-4 wars)

Forcing a player to be a proc *** was a failing of your party, not the event.

Ninja did suck, there simply wasn't enough MACC to land stuff, That's a fair complaint.
(and relic weapons literally blocking some procs........ Mandau's en-poison, Apoc's en-blind, Guttler's en-choke Metsu's Para)

My memories also include some random SAM who, while the entire alliance is yelling to hit the fire spell EX proc before kill, interprets that as "SHOHA SHOHA SHOHA SHOHA, RIGHT?"

But aside from that (obviously an issue solely of player stupidity), I appreciate the *idea* of trying to find creative ways to encourage inclusion of other jobs to do important things by hitting procs, but it was just so weirdly balanced. Why so many BLU and BLM spells, but then... ONE Automaton or BST pet proc? And oh god, to be the only NIN when there's both a katana WS proc AND multiple elemental ninjutsu procs.

They tried to expand on Abyssea procs, and ended up doing nothing but making it way more obnoxious. Due to the weighting of certain jobs and so many procs, it ended up still settling into a very specific meta of "we need 2x BLU, 2x BLM/SCH, 1x SMN, 1+ COR, 1 NIN, 1 DNC...". Instead of becoming an event that was more welcoming to a variety of jobs, it became a demanding list of "MUST HAVE THIS SPECIFIC SETUP" with 12+ people, and a huge pain to set up.

Huge fail, IMO. Terrible event mainly due to the dumb as F proc system. I'm sorta shocked to see Eiryl (or anyone) defending it, I've always thought it was a dumpster fire. And that's despite being one of the princess jobs for the event with Armageddon COR, useful procs and the fire+ atmacite making Wildfire really strong.

EDIT:
Oh, and how can I forget the BALANCE of "hey, you all get personal drops so we're going to make the good stuff have a terrible drop rate from your personal chest". And even just waiting for idiots to OPEN THE DAMN CHEST. Remember that this was Tanaka's less-than-triumphant return to FFXI after getting punished by being sent back to FFXI after the atrocious launch of FFXIV 1.0, and I swear his entire goal in life was to punish players.

No joke, Voidwatch is probably the closest FFXI ever came to turning me off for good and making me quit the game, coming off the heels of Abyssea (which I actually liked quite a bit). Hell, I have numerous friends who DID quit at that time. Adoulin expansion really saved the game for me, but I almost didn't make it after that dark VW era.

It just embodied the spirit of an MMO well. Randos all coming together and communicating while "forcing" job variety instead of 12 ukko wars.

I like(d) that.

It was short, and repeatable, unlike dynamis. Alliance content, inclusive. Inability to fight over drops, but still had gil rewards. No real downside to losing, pops were more or less unlimited. More pros than cons.

See, now those things in concept sound good... but yeah, the EXECUTION I totally disagree with you (see also my previous edit about the hateful drop rates since we got personal chests and no fighting over drops). Seriously almost made me quit the game for good.

Kinda surprised that I disagree with you so hard here, we're on the same page more often than not! I will just appreciate our differences, it takes all kinds :)

I will say the Provenance Watcher fight (and music) was cool AF.

I think the game actually does this - at least more than you may be giving it credit for - but we render it irrelevant by bulldozing through content with insane gear arsenals and stacked party comps built up over literal years of mindful and informed character development. We play in an environment theme park mmos like wow and 14 are very intentionally designed to avoid (which is probably why so many of you have such a wild hair up your *** about them, frankly).

The drop rates sucked, if they didn't the content would've burned out fast. No one would be doing the gallu more than one set if the glowsword dropped 10% of the time lol.

Necessary evil

LOL and when they added /fume to change the procs (as basically an admission that the huge list of random procs were an unavoidable problem), and you had a whole alliance sitting around just waiting on the timer to be able to /fume. The more I think, the more the VW trauma comes back to me. I had repressed this, WHY did I go pull that back out of my memory hole XD

/fume was always there; it just took us like a year to figure it out because it was so random.

They did make /fume usable more often in a patch, though.

I played RDM almost exclusively from abyssea to the start of adoulin and VW and Meebles can both go straight to hell.

Abyssea was like, your enfeebling magic does not work but here is some atma to play with, sparkle sparkle. Not so bad.

VW was like, you have no unique procs and no one loves you.
Meebles was like, you don't have the accuracy to hit bosses, be a mediocre WHM.

But then Adoulin came in and innate toughness made reive busting a breeze. Ups and Downs for sure but at least i have more than 6 open invetory slots because of Wardrobes and can play multiple jobs without shuffling a bunch of equips.

Thinking about this more, I really like the thought that went into the Adoulin events and especially Delve. People threw a fit because of their precious RME weapons getting encroached upon by mere NM drops, but it had a lot of the things you just mentioned as pros to VW with fewer downsides.

Yes, there were still a few "shopping list" jobs aside from the absolutely standard tank/healer/buffers (present in basically every event ever): must bring SCH to Tojil to stun, need some MNKs for Morimar/Foret Delve, bring a couple Bards for buffs/party swaps... but not to the extreme extent as VW where people became obsessed with needing to fill out a fairly rigid checklist for a dozen spots in the alliance.

Check, delve had that. 45 minute time limit, could go multiple times.

Check. Widespread shouts for 18 person alliances. Fairly inclusive, and the different zones having different weapon type weaknesses was a clever way to make different jobs in higher demand for different zones. Even if your piercing DD wasn't desired as much in Morimar, you'd be in high demand for
Ceizak. Even if you weren't a princess MNK, people would accept a PUP for a blunt DD in Morimar.

And besides only being alliance-focused, you could make progress with smaller groups by farming outside NMs for beads, or just farming for plasm inside the fractures to earn points to buy nice gear and get strong enough to take on the NMs and eventually get your group strong enough to take out the boss.


I think Delve one-upped VW big time here. Items dropped from the NMs themselves, which is cool and you always had that chance that you'd be the lucky one to get that pair of Oatixur or that Whirlpool Mask. But even if you didn't get the drop, everyone got plasm to eventually earn enough to buy items from the NPCs.

The balance of grind to reward felt about right too... not so easily obtainable that it was a joke to buy the stuff, but took long enough that people did have to grind a bit. Rewards were doled out at a pretty good pace to keep people motivated, but not so quickly that people could blitz through the content. And there was lots of stuff to buy or get from drops so the grind didn't die out super fast. In addition to the really strong weapons, armor sets and accessories were good too... and cheaper, so people could farm to get those, get a little stronger to farm more efficiently to get more stuff, and continue the cycle.

Walking away from VW with 50 logs was a little gil, I guess. But man, the brutal rate on the actual gear was disheartening. So, so, so much farming to end up at the end of a run of multiple NM pops with... some NPC junk and no Athos gear that I wanted. Again. And no feeling that I made progress toward the gear since it was low % chance or nothing, unlike Delve where I might not have won the Oatixur lot but I earned enough plasm to buy a shiny new earring.

Like... aren't you a guy who ridicules the Shinryu HTBF drop rates and shakes your head at the people who bang their heads against that wall again and again? But you were OK with the garbage drop rates of VW gear that were of a very similar anti-player philosophy of making you grind for an eternity for the tiny chance to get the reward?

Same thing for Delve, no huge cost to enter other than time and farming or buying one rock for the whole alliance. Could enter again without a timer like Dyna/Limbus/etc.


I do feel like the things you mentioned as pros in VW were a glimmer of a good idea, just executed badly IMO. The same sort of philosophy was in play for Delve, but the thoughtful design and continuous progression was just done so much better. Like I said before, Adoulin pretty much saved the game for me. I really think it was a masterpiece of design. The complaints were more about "MY SHINIES AREN'T AS SHINY ANY MORE", but eventually once they started the cycle of upgrading RMEA weapons that concern went away too (although admittedly, without the outcry from the player base perhaps they wouldn't have gone back to upgrading REMs).

Almost certainly not, they've been trying to shelve those since magian trials were a thing and it got heavy pushback then too. I think after adoulin they just gave up on the idea.

Delve was good content, too, the only real difference, was the jobs.

A tojil run was 6 MNKs. A Bee would be 6 rangers. A Shark was 6 mnk/runs. A tree was 6 sams. A wakzta was 6 rangers. A lion was 6 rangers.

A Qilin/Uptala/Morta/Ig-Alima, would have 1 Mnk, 1 pup, 1 drk, 1 war, 1 drg, 1 sam, 1 nin, some blms.

And that's better. (healthier)

I disagree, I would like a total balance on the damage of the classes, the supports and the healers. The "Variety" and "Diversify" should be created. with job abilities, spells, with ultimate weapons, job traits, etc.

On the Weapon skills my linear and boring balance would be like this:

1H WS FTP / 1k 5.0 / 2k 10.0 / 3k 15.0 -> Weapon base damage 125
H2H WS FTP / 1k 3.75 / 2k 7.5 / 3k 10.0 -> weapon base damage 218
2H WS FTP / 1K 2.5 / 2k 5.0 / 3k 7.5 -> Weapon base damage 250

Off-hand do not add extra hit on 1H/H2H, anymore. Only Kick attacks, DA, TA, QA will add extra hits to your 1h/H2H.

I know that many of you would not agree with these changes, but I would do it with the competitive aspect of the "Game" & "Parses" and to avoid generating unhealthy "METAS" for the title.