March 2022 Version Update

TVR mission has a Scorpion recolor, don't recall a Fly one.

I know why you would use entomb, but I can't see how you can reliably pull 40 Apex mobs and handle them during pull, then can't handle them at spot. Also Anvil stuns, Fulgor flashes, not exactly the same as petrify, but effect is similar. If you use GEO and 2xBLU like you mentioned, you can also just stack Harden Shell with Gallant, Barrier and Phalanx and you will most likely take 0 damage.

Harden Shell can't be kept up indefinitely but there is always old reliable Cocoon.

Apparently, they forgot to add the "Immune to Doom" flag to the new Apex monsters, and the usual JP crew didn't waste any time testing Cruel Joke.

Incoming Emergency Maintenance.

https://twitter.com/Phalaos/status/1501870186160594951?s=20&t=AkPzvNeN61ht8qscYNH99A

Hurry up and get your EP folks, before the fix comes.

Lol yeah that for sure will be patched

There is no way they re-textured these monsters just for an Apex camp, maybe these are some of the new monsters in the new area they are adding this year.

Kind of reminds me of Abyssea, when they recolored a few bosses.

One blu can't, but if you use 2 and take turns on pulling and supertanking, then you should be good, but taking turn with diffusion Might Guard with addition to personal Cocoon is definitely easier to manage and good enough.

I wonder if you can even get credit for more than 30 mobs dying in same time exactly. I recall there was problem with that.


Is it really that big of a deal?
In Sheol its kinda huge because you can't AoE damage mobs, but assuming you would AoE with 2 BLUs, you can probably kill everything much faster with nukes, than waiting for CJ cooldown and 60 sec to kill. How much HP those mobs have? 200k? With GEO nukes are doing like 20-30k? Thats like what, 4 nukes from each BLU?
The only thing about CJ is that its safer, but there is another thing to consider. If you doom ~30 mobs, you will for sure get resists on few of them (5% chance) and you need to wait 60 sec to know which ones resisted, then kill them. If you gonna kills those resists with AoE nukes, it will take as much time as simply killing all of them with nukes.

It kinda is. 1 BLU killing dozens of monsters in one minute without any support is busted. To date, no Apex Monsters are vulnerable to Cruel Joke/Doom. Clearly it's a mistake.


Saying you can do it faster with 2 other players is irrelevant though. Killing 30 monsters every 5 minutes solo is already faster and safer than what I can already do on any other job. It's not the same thing.

I see this camp as being a cleave camp anyways, BLU may finally start getting some invites to MLs besides the usual BRD COR ONLY. But CJ working on these is going to be patched because Apex are supposed to be immune to critical throat stab/doom moves, which is why Odium, Zantetsuken, and Denouements additional effects don't land on them.

As expected, all evasions on the new mobs match the old apex of the same levels. I did get some defense values on the highest level of each mob available, they might be off by a few points since it gets difficult to raise/lower attack by one at a time in some cases.

You can solo pull 30x ~135lv apex and not die in the process? I guess maybe you can with movement speed, aquaveil and good timing on dream flower.

Are they vulnerable to Subduction? If so, it's possible. You can pull a handful, sleep them, and then get a few more and repeat the process. Blastbomb the group to wake them up but bind them for re-sleep. I used to do it this way in Omen swart, though they are a bit weaker. Also, BLU can use Hippomenes Socks +1, for a nice Flee proc to help you get away and rebuff if need be. Depends on what you sub. WAR gives you Defender to pair with Cocoon, but RDM gives you Phalanx (though you could time KoH's with gear to get a bigger effect). If you need outside cures, you just summon AAEV and let her fight one while you round up the rest. It's really not that hard tbh.

Zantetsuken endeath is working too.

What's the proc rate on Zantetsuken/Odium's Death additional effect?

This guy gonna cause some chain-breaking dramas.

not sure why ppl get their panties twisted over the missing cruel joke immunity. didn't test doom but pretty sure the ML mobs in the spires are also not immune to odins death move and they never patched that either.

anvil can also join the rotation if spectral floe is fair game but i'd be carefull with fulgor since i read ML mobs have pretty high acc and evasion builds aren't very effective. as soon as you take anything other than entomb you also need a minimum of coordination cause floes/anvils terror/stun wear pretty fast, you always need to make sure a rotation ends with someone casting entomb or dream flower or it's going downhill quickly.

stuff like hippomenis socks flee effect and movement speed trousers can help during pull and no one said you have to pull all 40 without returning to camp and sleeping a batch of them.
however none of those pulling strats will help you during the nuking phase, you can only cheese it a bit with subductions gravity but due to the laggy servers you can't really trust mob positions so that's not reliable and very risky.

Absolutely with a proper evasion set along with Occultation and Verve.

It's just more proof that they don't check or think about anything they do. They just put it out there. I think that's the actual rub.

So you're comparing a move that can be done once every 45 minutes to one that can be done every 5 minutes? You can't even pull a sizeable amount of Apex monsters on SMN solo, so it's not even the same thing. Context matters.

I heard they gonna let CJ work on non-party members too

someone else already made the argument that a regular AoE cleaving party probably gets mobs down equally fast or faster than relying on cruel joke so the argument against cruel joke can't be effectiveness. context does indeed matter.

if CJ doom can only be removed by panacea i'd resub just to stand next to a bot camp cruel joking all day.

Of course regular cleave party can kill 30 monsters faster than one solo blue mage. If you’re comparing both parties to each other, you simply alternate CJs with multiple BLUs.

We played with CJ, regular party does indeed go faster then CJ. The best way I can see CJ working is if you had a dedicated puller, a healer of some sort and the rest BLU's who are rotating UL usage. Tank pulls one batch, Flower + CJ, tank pulls second batch, repeat with next BLU / etc.

Super limited setup though.

They have never really had big issues with people AOE killing stuff, smn burning for example.

I remember people used to freak out at me doing it and when I reported them for trying to kill my pulls the GM would take action on them, and not me.

Maybe it's intentional, maybe it's not. They are fully aware how people mass pull, they would make them non aggro and not link if they didn't want people doing it.

You’re talking about something different? Nobody said anything negative about AOE cleaving itself being frowned upon on by SE. It’s been around for a long time

Testing in the wild is always cheaper and more thorough.

Of course, why pay people to do stuff, when you have people paying you to do it.

thought it was kinda accepted we've been their testing team for at least 8 years or so now.