Official BLM Epeen Vs SCH Epeen Thread!! Keep These Fights Clean!

Probably cause most schs like to tout there mp efficiency and here you actually have less efficiency. That may outdps a blm in the long run. Short run probably definitely. Though there is something about using T3 spells on any hard targets that makes me cry inside... unless your a rdm and have no choice

So you agree that Sch can outdmg a blm in the long run and short term, what else is there?

Doing more dmg per tp given to the mob? Being better at high int mobs? Doing more when you can't just spam spells like that?

Doing more dmg per tp given to the mob? - Ok AMII wins out here, but the MP cost and recast means you can't spam them.
Being better at high int mobs? - The Int difference between Blm/Rdm and Sch/Rdm is 2 at 75, and Blms has 20 more Elemental skill naked. Sch is still a pretty new job and as more gear comes out, it will close that gap between them.
Doing more when you can't just spam spells like that? - What do you mean more here?

The answer to the 2nd is the same as the first. Higher tier helps overcome lower dints.
As far as that it's really kinda part of the first. When your not allowed to just spam spell after spell on a mob either hate or tp or your keeping it slept or MBing skillchains bigger numbers will win out.

well i didn't read everything here and no way i'm doing it now haha.

Here is what i think:
(I don't have sch but a friend does and we compete the ***lol)

Surely a sch can out nuke a blm with Ebullience and even get really close to the damage a really pimped one does. But i think that's it. lol

Thing is that's once a min deal (ok they can pre charge 4, but after using that they will have to be locked on the 1m ). If for some reason it was possible to nuke only once a minute (long pull perhaps), then blms starts to pick up dot wise. The usual blms don't fall so shortly on T4 against the usual sch, but if we can recover the mp of a AM2 on that time (a good hmp set would make it possible), that it, no
way a sch will out damage a blm over time.

Sch can't out nuke blms on single nukes without Ebullience, but yeah, they can fall to mp effiency with parsimony. But in any situation where you need to rest (or hold back) blm starts gaining grounds( the sch would do ebullience in every nuke but the blm could am2).

Also many forget that even though blm isn't mp effient, they still got the second highest mp pool of all mages and the highest clear mind tier. And thats something lol (seriouly).

By being efficient with low Tier spells.
I meant on something like an HNM.
I was told in theory that blm cast T3's for more efficient mp use and dmg from start to finish. IS this wrong?

Hmm, what's with this statement? New gear, what? new gear could affect both jobs (most likely will). JSE are things of the past. Even if it is JSE, i highly doubt they would add one only for sch. Every job on the would get some juice.

Depends on the HNM and to an extent how you gear for it. On high int ones no. That being said as far as dmg goes nothing will really beat spamming drain or casting low tier... but depending on how you fight it you kinda want to limit the tp given to most HNMs. Which is pretty much the only reason epeen will beat efficiency.

I think so Lowblow.
I'm not sure, but it all falls to the mp effiency order of each spell. I think tier4>tier3 i'm not sure.

tier3 is used on something like bomb queen because the adds dont have so much hp. So its more efficient to nuke with lower tiers.

Yes, new gear would help both, but it would help Sch even more since Blm has access to some of the best equipment right now (morrigans for example) so it wouldn't be that much of an upgrade for Blm (if at all)



Ok then if we're not spamming Spells then Sch can use more strats and still come out on top with better T4 nukes with Ebullience or more efficient nukes with Parsimony

You get off to something as simple as that? poor poor children

back to thread for the moment!

back on topic

Lowblow using mostly tier 3 on HNMs is a pretty fair idea.

One thing to consider at an HNM fight is the the longer the fight the more danger for a BLM. BLM emnity can stack really high on HNMs, especially Khimaira, even if you space your nukes out alot.

This is why Magic Bursts are so important. A blm can do extra heavy damage, all at the same time as the other blm or Sch present, and all just after a tank got alot of emnity stuck to it. Also the damage spike is helpfull.

Well if you read back ebullience really just brings you on par... and completely ignores the AM2 or aga3 thing. And in those same situations are some of the few the blm can /sch.

Ebullience brings Schs on par with AM not the Blms T4 spells, and no blm worth anything would /sch, other than screwing around.

And you can AMII and aga3 all you want, I'll pass you in dmg while you're resting, or recovering from weakness.

You get get your T4 up to my AM2 without outside help and I will quit this game. Theres alreayd pages and pages of numbers showing that it is far from possible without a serious favoring in gear towards the sch. As far as blm/sch clearly you haven't fought any NMs and actually had tanks for them. Or you have no idea how to stay out of range of AOEs. And while your feeding tp to feed those AOEs I'll be laughing as low manning tanks die

Hello Dasva

I just noticed your screenshot post. Very nice your nuke was like 150+ higher than mine. My little test I used no food, signet, weather, or day at all. You indicated you werent using day or weather aswell. Since you are taru and I use Mithra with no food you probably got 15 int over me and probably some MAB too.

Your blm is exactly what I mean for BLM beat SCH for nuke damage bar ebullience on Tier4 for sch/blm. Even with my mediocre BLM vs. most scholars.

If you check my test my SCH/RDM overshot my BLM/RDM. My SCH/RDM ebullience would not have overshot your BLM/RDM. If you had Scholar lvled (maybe you do I havent checked), than perhaps your SCH/RDM would overhot your own BLM/RDM.

Between my information and your (which is very proven) it is clear that the race, gear, factor in. So a mithra SCH/RDM would be hard pressed to pass a taru BLM/RDM. A taru SCH/RDM should have a much easier time passing a mithra BLM/RDM. The gear is a factor of course. The only thing I can do myself to add damage to my blm is get a novio and stop using Sorc Petasos for nuke tests, so my damage reach just is what it is. It sticks really well though. Kirin is afraid of me.

AH! I just noticed that my SCH/BLM barely beat out your BLM on that nuke which stuck for 1450 area.

I noticed your 1750 ish nuke on the spider too, it looks like you had a lantern burning for that one. I have one of thse too they are very nice blm toys!^^

If we picked you for the BLM example and me for the SCH example with just plain nuke damage being the contest than ....

BLM>SCH hands down.

I had sanction not that it made a difference. I only had the day on the higher dmg ones the ones that were alot higher. As a taru to mithra shouldn't have that big of a int difference but oh well. And of course I have MAB on you. LOl I have 42 from jobtraits/merits alone thats the whole point. Your blm may or may not be similarly geared as your sch. My sch is like 37 but even if I did I'd have to work very hard getting good enough gear to compare to my blms dmg. Granted I put a bit of effort into getting my blm gear. Either way doing the math all the way pimped out solo blm and all the way pimped out solo sch came to about the same T4 dmg well on blizz4 anyways. Eww testing in sorc petasos? Well this is all assuming non auguments. Blm gets much better AH gear but thats all luck so meh.

Either way I'm sticking to a similarly geared sch will get close to blm with ebullience and certainly shouldn't get these supposed claims of getting as much w/o ebullience or even more laughable getting as high a T4 as a blms AM2... unless theres a sch out there that can hit 2.5k T4 solo

Naw my non weather lantern was 1463

I agree a SCH without Ebullience will not touch a blm very easily. Scholars/blm are pretty tough becuase of the MAB BLM active trait. Still though it is clear that your Taru BLM which is well geared outreaches SCH/blm I used which is also farily well geared.

also yea, Sorcerer's Petasos isnt a good nuke tester. I just wanted a representation of what I ussually toss around. I wear Sorc hat full time on BLM. Between the 8/8 elemental, that hat and the Genie Weskit, my elemental is so high my nukes hardly ever resist. Even on HNMs my rate of success is very high. So my ussual BLMing I shoot for magic acc>damage but just on the head (Im not trying to say my way is better or anything like that). I am the same way on Scholar, I would rather wear the relic hat for casting speed and accuracy than get that little extra damage.


to whom it may concern,

Oh yea yesterday I said I reached a nuke of 2367 on puddings, I forgot to add that I had a Manaburn party and had some outside help. Thats why it was a "all time high" on Pudding. My ussualy regular high on Puddings are 2250 ish. If you are on my server and want to make a wager ill walk out there with you. My overall all time high is on Hpmende for something like 3800 ish damage.

well.... in my experience of being a BLM for so on years.... BLM and SCH both are very good for alot, BLM is better being a BLM than a SCH becuz thats its JOB is to be a BLM one that deals monstrous DMG, a SCH is meant to be a supporter and help out, dealing miniscule (spelled wrong i know...) amount to help BLM dmg, or they can just be healers or anything lololol BLM is better being a BLM than a SCH, period. SCH deals exceptional amounts of hella dmg on certain mobs, it just depends on the mobs you're fighting as well. thats all it REALLY comes down to, along with the SCH and/or BLM exping on them or in party or w/e.

Oh yeah and random note of blm/sch is stupid idea. Another place it is good is well fights were mobs just can't reach you. So like quite a few assaults. Just did leujom cleansing (sp) as blm/sch did great in. Got gastric bombed a couple of times but even as a taru blm/sch with sorc ring I still lived. Which is more then I can say for a couple of DDs in there lol

Ok I concede that your AMII is better than my T4 nukes on puddings. But my Helix > your AMII on puddings. I can easily break 250 which works out to 2500 by the time it wears. Also, I'm not totally 100% finished gearing my sch either so that number will get higher, while 2500ish is the best you can get solo.

As for fighting NMs. I've fought pretty much everything in the game, except for the beastman and toau kings, and you can never be 100% sure that something out of the ordinary won't happen, which is why /sch is a terrible sub for blm, since you have to have some level of self protection, or you'll be a drain on your ally.

Actually I can get higher. I'm missing pretty much all hard to get gear lol. And anyways helix duration is kinda random but general consensus is it is around 1 min.... thats 6 tics. So no your 250 helix aint breaking even if you MV with maxed merits. Nuke sure which kings your talking about and it is highly situational. But pretty much any HNM moves out there that will hurt my taru will either kill me with stoneskin or not kill me without it. But either way you can and should stay out of AOE ranges on most moves there are a couple of exceptions but meh /rdm for that. And you shouldn't be pulling hate

Actually the consensus is Helix duration varies from 45 to 90 seconds. with 45 seconds being on resistant mobs and 90 on non-resistant. Seeing that puddings are very non-resistant most helices land for the full 90 seconds, so if timed right, 10 ticks can occur. Throw MV into the mix then a 250 helix can do 3750 dmg.

I can't believe this thread is still happening. Everyone just quit now. Argument has gone absolutely nowhere. Nobody's opinion has been changed from where they started when it comes to any aspect of this debate.

Edit: Oh yeah since I'm here anyway, thought I'd mention I had a chance to test my damage. SCH T4 with Ebullience did about 200 more damage than BLM T4. Yeah, Sorc Ring, Uggy Pendant and all that jazz active.

ok [/thread]