Official BLM Epeen Vs SCH Epeen Thread!! Keep These Fights Clean!

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Official BLM epeen vs SCH epeen thread!! Keep these fights clean!
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 Seraph.Zoey
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By Seraph.Zoey 2009-10-27 22:55:50
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Quetzalcoatl.Princemercury said:
And please note at that level of damage, 1 INT is about 5 DMG while 1 MAB is about 10-11 DMG. So, 10INT = ~50DMG And, 2MAB is about ~20DMG. Total, 50 20=70. Your 2300s 70 = >2500? You're just as diluted as korpg.


I am glad you are so passionate about the subject Ninja/dancer.

Firstly Int makes a bigger difference on AM2s than 5 magic damage. Also the more Int you have the more Int will be affective. This is noticable in the blm damage calculator at wiki. my "2300ish" nuke was exactly 2367 it was my all time high and I have no reason to lie about it really. I'm proud of it actually. But lets say that your simple math is right, well add the 25% you forgot and 70+35 = 105. so 2367+105 = 1478. Lets throw in the fact that you generally are lowballing numbers in your calculation and I think we have a winner!
 Quetzalcoatl.Princemercury
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By Quetzalcoatl.Princemercury 2009-10-27 22:59:02
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What the *** are you talking about? INT diminishes on AMIIs. Proof? 1.8 INT = 1 MAB. Nuke with Mahatma Gloves compared to genie manillas. And let me know what's the difference.

You don't even know what the hell you're talking about. On puddings there is no "all time high" as someone said earlier, damage is STATIC. And my simple math IS right. And by the way...

1 MAB does not = Damage *.1

*** newb.

Edit: AND

MAB diminishes from .1 as you add more. But it always increases damage, and the higher your base damage is, the more effective MAB is.

That's why if your gear remains the same: Back to my Mahatma Cuffs and Genie Gages comparison simply because

Mahatma Cuffs = 6 INT
Genie M. = 3 MAB

Thunder IVs at 1400-1800~ w/ Mahatma > Genie
Burst II at 1900+ w/ Genie > Mahatma
 Seraph.Zoey
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By Seraph.Zoey 2009-10-27 23:04:01
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Quetzalcoatl.Princemercury said:
What the *** are you talking about? INT diminishes on AMIIs. Proof? 1.8 INT = 1 MAB. Nuke with Mahatma Gloves compared to genie manillas. And let me know what's the difference. You don't even know what the hell you're talking about. On puddings there is no "all time high" as someone said earlier, damage is STATIC. And my simple math IS right. And by the way... 1 MAB does not = Damage *.1 *** newb.


The genie manillas would deliver over Mahatma.

Also

Do you have a BLm lvl 75?

Try to answer without swearing, no reason to cuss at me im here in good spirits.

It seems all the people who are so heavy at BLM topec posters have no BLM
 Quetzalcoatl.Princemercury
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By Quetzalcoatl.Princemercury 2009-10-27 23:05:12
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Seraph.Zoey said:
Quetzalcoatl.Princemercury said:
What the *** are you talking about? INT diminishes on AMIIs. Proof? 1.8 INT = 1 MAB. Nuke with Mahatma Gloves compared to genie manillas. And let me know what's the difference. You don't even know what the hell you're talking about. On puddings there is no "all time high" as someone said earlier, damage is STATIC. And my simple math IS right. And by the way... 1 MAB does not = Damage *.1 *** newb.


The genie manillas would deliver over Mahatma.

Also

Do you have a BLm lvl 75?

Try to answer without swearing, no reason to cuss at me im here in good spirits.


God you're a *** idiot. Mahatma Cuffs TRUMP Genie if your damage is under 1650.

And yeah I have BLM at 75 dumb ***, did you even read the rest of the thread?
 Quetzalcoatl.Princemercury
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By Quetzalcoatl.Princemercury 2009-10-27 23:05:35
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I'll add this for the blind:

Edit: AND

MAB diminishes from .1 as you add more. But it always increases damage, and the higher your base damage is, the more effective MAB is.

That's why if your gear remains the same: Back to my Mahatma Cuffs and Genie Gages comparison simply because

Mahatma Cuffs = 6 INT
Genie M. = 3 MAB

Thunder IVs at 1400-1800~ w/ Mahatma > Genie
Burst II at 1900+ w/ Genie > Mahatma
 Odin.Blazza
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By Odin.Blazza 2009-10-27 23:06:36
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Damn that is a cool calculator thing /bookmarks

Closest I could reproduce was 2546 instead of 2548, by allowing -13 INT for max burn (not sure if you included that) AND including weather, which isn't possible in Mount Z without SCH...
 Seraph.Zoey
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By Seraph.Zoey 2009-10-27 23:07:43
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Quetzalcoatl.Princemercury said:
Seraph.Zoey said:
Quetzalcoatl.Princemercury said:
What the *** are you talking about? INT diminishes on AMIIs. Proof? 1.8 INT = 1 MAB. Nuke with Mahatma Gloves compared to genie manillas. And let me know what's the difference. You don't even know what the hell you're talking about. On puddings there is no "all time high" as someone said earlier, damage is STATIC. And my simple math IS right. And by the way... 1 MAB does not = Damage *.1 *** newb.
The genie manillas would deliver over Mahatma. Also Do you have a BLm lvl 75? Try to answer without swearing, no reason to cuss at me im here in good spirits.
God you're a *** idiot. Mahatma Cuffs TRUMP Genie if your damage is under 1650. And yeah I have BLM at 75 dumb ***, did you even read the rest of the thread?


You forgot the damage we were talking about was AM2 on a pudding soooo. Whos and idiot now!? ^^
 Odin.Lowblow
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By Odin.Lowblow 2009-10-27 23:10:27
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Princemercury were you beat as a child? Im enjoying reading the calculations and the peoples arguements and such. But your constant insulting is really annoying. ^^ keep it clean man.
 Quetzalcoatl.Princemercury
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By Quetzalcoatl.Princemercury 2009-10-27 23:10:38
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W
Seraph.Zoey said:
Quetzalcoatl.Princemercury said:
Seraph.Zoey said:
Quetzalcoatl.Princemercury said:
What the *** are you talking about? INT diminishes on AMIIs. Proof? 1.8 INT = 1 MAB. Nuke with Mahatma Gloves compared to genie manillas. And let me know what's the difference. You don't even know what the hell you're talking about. On puddings there is no "all time high" as someone said earlier, damage is STATIC. And my simple math IS right. And by the way... 1 MAB does not = Damage *.1 *** newb.
The genie manillas would deliver over Mahatma. Also Do you have a BLm lvl 75? Try to answer without swearing, no reason to cuss at me im here in good spirits.
God you're a *** idiot. Mahatma Cuffs TRUMP Genie if your damage is under 1650. And yeah I have BLM at 75 dumb ***, did you even read the rest of the thread?


You forgot the damage we were talking about was AM2 on a pudding soooo. Whos and idiot now!? ^^


Since when was I talking about any other mob? your level of stupidity is unbearable.
 Quetzalcoatl.Princemercury
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By Quetzalcoatl.Princemercury 2009-10-27 23:11:32
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Odin.Lowblow said:
Princemercury were you beat as a child? Im enjoying reading the calculations and the peoples arguements and such. But your constant insulting is really annoying. ^^ keep it clean man.


Good point. And yeah, I my *** beat when I did bad stuff. I'm sure most of us were, I'm just man enough to admit it.

Edit: +got
 Gilgamesh.Alyria
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By Gilgamesh.Alyria 2009-10-27 23:12:27
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I think you guys need to settle down a bit.
 Alexander.Zayo
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By Alexander.Zayo 2009-10-27 23:12:55
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lol <3 wooooo

+1
 Unicorn.Moldtech
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By Unicorn.Moldtech 2009-10-27 23:13:57
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wut? no zenith mitts? D:
 Gilgamesh.Nezea
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By Gilgamesh.Nezea 2009-10-27 23:16:12
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Odin.Blazza said:
Damn that is a cool calculator thing /bookmarks

Closest I could reproduce was 2546 instead of 2548, by allowing -13 INT for max burn (not sure if you included that) AND including weather, which isn't possible in Mount Z without SCH...


Thanks, Blazza :D exactly what I was looking for.
 Quetzalcoatl.Princemercury
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By Quetzalcoatl.Princemercury 2009-10-27 23:16:35
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There's nothing that can directly compare with zmitts with 10 INT. So I choose Mahatma and Genie.
 Quetzalcoatl.Princemercury
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By Quetzalcoatl.Princemercury 2009-10-27 23:18:27
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Gilgamesh.Nezea said:
Odin.Blazza said:
Damn that is a cool calculator thing /bookmarks

Closest I could reproduce was 2546 instead of 2548, by allowing -13 INT for max burn (not sure if you included that) AND including weather, which isn't possible in Mount Z without SCH...


Thanks, Blazza :D exactly what I was looking for.


In my calculation, I entered everything exactly as I typed it.

Er, minus the Nezea quote.
 Quetzalcoatl.Princemercury
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By Quetzalcoatl.Princemercury 2009-10-27 23:22:35
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Anyway, going to sleep, I have a board meeting tomorrow and lots of work to complete. Use the calculator I posted on page 19 and plug in your own numbers. There's nothing more I can do/say here =P.

Going to sleep with the only person seemingly in the world that can put up with me everynight.

Nite <3. ^^

Edit: Pudding INT is 89. Full burn is 89-13, duh. Have fun.
 Odin.Blazza
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By Odin.Blazza 2009-10-27 23:25:13
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Quetzalcoatl.Princemercury said:
Gilgamesh.Nezea said:
Odin.Blazza said:
Damn that is a cool calculator thing /bookmarks

Closest I could reproduce was 2546 instead of 2548, by allowing -13 INT for max burn (not sure if you included that) AND including weather, which isn't possible in Mount Z without SCH...


Thanks, Blazza :D exactly what I was looking for.


In my calculation, I entered everything exactly as I typed it.

Er, minus the Nezea quote.

Yeah but I don't know what a flans INT is, so it 89 INT including burn or not? Either way it doesn't really matter, even with adding +6 INT for a possibly augmented weskit, AND 89-13 INT, and another 2 MAB for an augmented phantom earring or snow ring it doesn't come close without adding weather. ***even with all that AND an extra 10 MAB for a magic crit it only comes to 2528.
 Quetzalcoatl.Princemercury
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By Quetzalcoatl.Princemercury 2009-10-27 23:26:53
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Edit: Pudding INT is 89. Full burn is 89-13.~

Ok, really gone now, good night.
 Unicorn.Moldtech
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By Unicorn.Moldtech 2009-10-27 23:30:32
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Odin.Lowblow said:
Im reading people claiming a blm has full use of Strategems with /SCH. /Sch will only have 2 charges with 2 minute recharge timer. Sch main @ 70 has 4 charges on 1minute Recharge. Also saying you can use sublimation. Again no where near as effecient as a scholar with AF head and relic body to increase the MP per tick. So if your trying to say a /sch job is effecient on MP as Sch main. Then i dunno what ive been doing wrong :P



um, yea, sch main has 4 charges which you'll use at least two each nuke 1 for parsimony and 1 for ebullience as sch sub will only be using the parsimony, basically the amounts of charges will equal out. and relic and af head only speeds up the drain effect of sublimation it doesnt increase how much you'll get back, if both jobs start the fight with full sublimation then what? Sure a fully merited sublimation will net ya about 50 more MP when ya use it.

In the long run IF a sch does reach a number high near blm doesnt mean it can continue to repeatedly put up them numbers during the fight. It will take sch more nuking to equal out the nuking of blm. It's just common sense, if Sch is by some freak of nature beating Blm on nukes then rest assured, SE will have an update for Blm in the future as Blm is the intended offensive magic master, not sch. Sch nuking to blm nuking is like the boy wonder to batman ^^
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By Ragnarok.Blindphleb 2009-10-27 23:36:51
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Quetzalcoatl.Princemercury said:
http://bash74.com/magic/

Gear INT = 116.
PUDDING INT IS 89.

Freeze II, Level 5 (Doesn't matter)
5 ICE Merits

Stuff MAB = 36 total.
Uggy 8
Moldy 5
Igq 6
Zmitts 5
Sorc 10
Yigit 2

Day - Check
Relic Legs - Check
Obi - Check.

Monster type : FLAN

Then click Go.

Total Damage is 2257.

I rest my case. All of you that think 2300 - 2500 is possible with that gear, you're a bunch of dumbfucks.



Edit: Woood, I laughed at that pic.

Gear INT = 116.+5 from the melon pie +1 he said he had= 121
PUDDING INT IS 89.- at least 9 from burn= 80

Freeze II, Level 5 (Doesn't matter)
5 ICE Merits

Stuff MAB = 36 total.
Uggy 8
Moldy 5
Igq 6
Zmitts 5
Sorc 10
Yigit 2

Day - Check
Relic Legs - Check
Obi - Check.

Monster type : FLAN

Then click Go.

Total Damage is 2257 2552.

Sir, Please take your rude self somewhere else.
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 Quetzalcoatl.Princemercury
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By Quetzalcoatl.Princemercury 2009-10-27 23:41:52
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Ragnarok.Blindphleb said:
Quetzalcoatl.Princemercury said:
http://bash74.com/magic/

Gear INT = 116.
PUDDING INT IS 89.

Freeze II, Level 5 (Doesn't matter)
5 ICE Merits

Stuff MAB = 36 total.
Uggy 8
Moldy 5
Igq 6
Zmitts 5
Sorc 10
Yigit 2

Day - Check
Relic Legs - Check
Obi - Check.

Monster type : FLAN

Then click Go.

Total Damage is 2257.

I rest my case. All of you that think 2300 - 2500 is possible with that gear, you're a bunch of dumbfucks.



Edit: Woood, I laughed at that pic.

Gear INT = 116. 5 from the melon pie 1 he said he had= 121
PUDDING INT IS 89.- at least 9 from burn= 80

Freeze II, Level 5 (Doesn't matter)
5 ICE Merits

Stuff MAB = 36 total.
Uggy 8
Moldy 5
Igq 6
Zmitts 5
Sorc 10
Yigit 2

Day - Check
Relic Legs - Check
Obi - Check.

Monster type : FLAN

Then click Go.

Total Damage is 2257 2552.

Sir, Please take your rude self somewhere else.


Must be waken up for these minuscule things...

Whatever, I'll be nice.

116 is already including a Melon Pie +1

Even with Burn, Pudding INT is 76, right?

If burn then Total Damage : 2334.

Any other... concerns?

Edit: Don't blame me for being rude.

1. I hate liars, rl or online.
2. I hate people who consistently lie thinking everyone is naive enough to believe it.
3. If you don't like the way I react to liars, then... I'm sorry I don't conform to your standards.
 Ragnarok.Blindphleb
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By Ragnarok.Blindphleb 2009-10-27 23:59:56
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My mistake on the int 116, I assumed from his gear screenshot that he wasn't eating food in it. A quick double check confirms he was.

Given the numbers so far, and assuming that website is accurate (I did a few calculations based on my own numbers today, and it was pretty spot on), I agree Korpg must have gotten weather from a SCH to get those numbers.

I can understand hating liars, just try not to let it spill over to where you're attacking innocent or naive spectators.

Hope your board meeting goes well tomorrow.
 Quetzalcoatl.Princemercury
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By Quetzalcoatl.Princemercury 2009-10-28 00:01:58
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Thank you :), I'm used to it, we have them every Wednesday.

Have a good night.

Edit: Sorry guys if I blew up in your face.
 Odin.Nermal
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By Odin.Nermal 2009-10-28 00:02:38
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Late to the party, but as I mentioned like 10 pages back,

nuke damage is 100% consistent outside of day/weather bonuses not using Obi and magic critical hit. Because of this, you can predetermine your damage very accurately using excel or a tool (like the one mentioned above). Screenshots are unnecessary to "prove" something. If anything, a gear screenshot is much more 'accurate'.



The only reason I bothered posting again here is to talk about how the numbers work with INT vs. MAB. Someone above mentioned said something to the effect of "1.8 INT = 1 MAB" or "above XXX damage use gear X over gear Y". I just wanted to say that this is overly simplistic and you are always best served by just plugging your gear options into a calculator.

The fundamental flaw here is that if you actually look at the damage formula, INT is additive whereas MAB is a multiplier. The 2 cannot be made into a predetermined ratio like 1.8:1 or 2:1. It comforts people to go by "rules of thumb" like 2:1 INT to MAB ratios but they are just estimates. If you're just by yourself and want to quickly *** gear options, then go ahead and use it (I still do even knowing it's not 100% accurate),

BUT

if you're going to go into a thread and be the "anal math guy", you are probably best served by not using short cuts. The real best answer to "Mahatma Cuffs vs Genie Manillas" is sadly "it depends", which is not the most useful answer, yet the most accurate. I would personally never use "it depends" as an answer to someone asking me a simple gear question for BLM because it would confuse the hell out of him probably, but again, it's a forum debate, not a "help someone out" situation.

You're comparing +6 INT vs. 3 MAB. Let's break down the formula (what that calculator site is using). I'll use the AMII formula since that's what is being discussed.

DAMAGE = (710 + dINT * 2) * (1 + MAB/100) * D/W * STAFF * MISC

To try to simplify, just realize that basically every variable here not INT or MAB related like your staff bonus or your day/weather bonus is a STATIC GAIN. Like NQ staff bonus - I don't care what else you're wearing or what you're nuking - it's +10%. So let's just eliminate those to focus on INT and MAB since we're dealing with a gear option question.

DAMAGE ~=~ (710 + dINT * 2) * (1 + MAB/100)


So just look at this relationship here. Does it look like you can reduce this mess into something as simple as a constant * INT = MAB? There's really no way. And this is why a direct INT:MAB ratio is not a completely accurate rule of thumb. So if someone tells you something about a 2:1 ratio or a 1.8:1 ratio - plug in the numbers yourself. Don't use these ratios unless you actually know the limitations or you're just cheating yourself.

Then there's the "if you're doing above X damage, use this piece of gear over that one". Again, overly simplistic - even if you're limiting the discussion to a single spell (e.g. Freeze II). The problem here, ESPECIALLY with Flan mobs (due to a damage bonus) is you have no clue which modifiers are pushing the damage higher. Does the person have HQ vs. NQ staves? Weather? A mob weakness (like flans +25%)? There's also the inherent question of is the player overstacking INT (such is the case with 99% of the Scholars at 75 since MAB is a rare stat for SCH available gear) vs. MAB.


I'm not actually 100% sure why I posted since this is all information most people either already have a very strong grasp of (if you're a math geek), or more likely just don't care about (wouldn't blame you) - I'm just irked by the fact that someone would run into a flame war posing as the "math guy" and take shortcuts himself. And above all, likely get away with it simply because the numbers go over everyone's head. Then on top of it, put down people for not understanding said math when their own explanation is not truly adequate.

My best advice for anyone that actually cares is to (1) just use the calculator for all your gear option needs (ignore shortcut ratios), or (2) actually learn the mechanics behind the formula. (2) takes some time which you may find pointless for a video game, but then again, if you're arguing on a forum about it, I would submit that this is more pointless to argue without the knowledge at your fingertips.

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Calculating_Magic_Damage
or
http://wiki.bluegartrls.com/bg/Magic_Damage
(written by the same group of players, both work)
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 Seraph.Zoey
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By Seraph.Zoey 2009-10-28 00:05:38
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Quetzalcoatl.Princemercury said:
Ragnarok.Blindphleb said:
Quetzalcoatl.Princemercury said:
http://bash74.com/magic/ Gear INT = 116. PUDDING INT IS 89. Freeze II, Level 5 (Doesn't matter) 5 ICE Merits Stuff MAB = 36 total. Uggy 8 Moldy 5 Igq 6 Zmitts 5 Sorc 10 Yigit 2 Day - Check Relic Legs - Check Obi - Check. Monster type : FLAN Then click Go. Total Damage is 2257. I rest my case. All of you that think 2300 - 2500 is possible with that gear, you're a bunch of dumbfucks. Edit: Woood, I laughed at that pic.
Gear INT = 116. 5 from the melon pie 1 he said he had= 121 PUDDING INT IS 89.- at least 9 from burn= 80 Freeze II, Level 5 (Doesn't matter) 5 ICE Merits Stuff MAB = 36 total. Uggy 8 Moldy 5 Igq 6 Zmitts 5 Sorc 10 Yigit 2 Day - Check Relic Legs - Check Obi - Check. Monster type : FLAN Then click Go. Total Damage is 2257 2552. Sir, Please take your rude self somewhere else.
Must be waken up for these minuscule things... Whatever, I'll be nice. 116 is already including a Melon Pie 1 Even with Burn, Pudding INT is 76, right? If burn then Total Damage : 2334. Any other... concerns? Edit: Don't blame me for being rude. 1. I hate liars, rl or online. 2. I hate people who consistently lie thinking everyone is naive enough to believe it. 3. If you don't like the way I react to liars, then... I'm sorry I don't conform to your standards.



So you behave like that cuz "I hate liar". /sigh no one is even lying in here. You get way bent out of shape over nothing that is real. Yea dude, you are one total idiot. that last post you calculated 2300 on a blm nuke and were going crzy on someones claim of 2500. the difference is so small and youll go out on a limb all batshit crazy with rudeness over it to me just for saying that it is likely and saying how. If I screenshoted it you would say I cropped it too I bet.

You are a rare and unbelievable kind of person. Only "real life" cowards act the way you do In a forum. Do the world a favor and ask your mom for manners.
 Phoenix.Psion
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By Phoenix.Psion 2009-10-28 00:25:30
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BLMs? SCHs? Who cares about such inferior jobs when you have... puppetmaster! /laugh


*FYI: looooong post of doom!*

You puny jobs don't realize the power locked within the tireless machines that can do your job better than you! With advantages such as unlimited MP, the ability to shed its hate once a minute, and the ability to cast while running, why settle for anything less?

If it's power you want, don't worry. A fully merited/decked out puppetmaster that knows what they're doing can have their automaton make veteran blms cry with jealousy in no time! First off, let's look at the costs to take pup to the max:

Costs of all attachments: dependent on server, but for Phoenix it would cost about 5-7 mil, with about 1 mil of it coming from economizer, a useful but not vital attachment. (consumes dark maneuvers into MP, but mainly useful for soloing when putting your automaton away to refill it's MP isn't always possible due to paralyze on master/damaged automaton/wanting to let activate go to 0 in case of emergency) The magic damage attachments would cost about 2 million or so tops, with tranquilizer and condenser being the two big ticket attachments.

Costs of food: nothing enhances the automatons power, so this is moot. You COULD use int food on the master to make ice maneuvers less burden, but you can easily reach the lowered burden threshold simply through a couple pieces of errant gear swapped in. So use whatever food you want, or not at all.

Costs of equipment: The only thing that actually would cost money at all for pet magic boosts, would be the Oberon's sainti, which goes for 90-100k on my server for 5 tries. One possible augment is pet: magic attack +1 to +4, (perhaps higher, as wiki has been woefully abandoned in up to date augments from fey weapon fights), but this could cost you millions and lots of effort in time to get maxed. As for the rest, they are all going to cost you time and luck, with one possible boost coming from moogle expansion body, and the rest coming from dynamis or random Tenshodo coffer rewards from various colored keys. Note that pet magic attack is a possible augment from FoV as well, but exceedingly rare.

Costs of merits: This one's actually pretty cheap. To max the automaton's magic potential, you need 5/5 automaton magic skill for access to fire and blizzard IV, and 5/5 optimization for 25 pet magic attack. So to max out the automatons magic, that's 1+2+3+4+5 and 3+4+5+5+5= 37 merits, or 370,000 EXP total. Not too bad, just 19 hours or so at 20k exp an hour meripo.

Costs to level pup to 75: this depends on you. However, keep this in mind. Pup is playing the game on expert mode. Pup requires 3 things in high amounts: skill, gear, and attachments; with a generous seasoning of sushi/marinara pizza+1. If you decide to half-*** in ANY of these, you can kiss your party invites goodbye, and say hello to the world of gimp. This job's base strengh is nearly 0... naked and unmerited, with no attachments, you're just a geek trying to punch an oversized tiger along with the robot version of a level 1 onion knight. The job's max potential however, is somewhere among the stars, and it's your job as a puppetmaster to bring it out.

That being said, keep this in mind about automaton nuking: it is not the best for every situation. Yes, the automaton can nuke well, but nuking is not all it does well, and on some targets it isn't the best option, when you have highly accurate/strong physical attacks and powerful healing capabilities up your sleeve as well. Well, the automaton anyways. >.>;

The main reason the automaton's nuking isn't the best for every situation comes mainly from one thing: it's low base INT stat. At a paltry 70 + 6 INT (without ABS-INT, which doesn't land on every HNM), the automaton's power doesn't come from a high INT and some magic attack bonus, but instead, from a GIGANTIC amount of magic attack bonus and direct damage boosts. Here's an idea:

(attachment numbers will be listed with 0 to 3 maneuvers, I.E 5/10/15/20 for 0/1/2/3 of the maneuver that activates it.)

Loudspeaker: (note, on high level monsters, this will generally be swapped out for tranquilizer instead for higher magic accuracy.)
this gives 5/10/15/20 magic attack bonus, and is activated by ice maneuvers.

Loudspeaker II: This gives 10/15/20/25 magic attack bonus to the automaton, and is activated by ice maneuvers.

Ice maker: This lovely gem gives 0/20%/40%/60% magic attack bonus boost (calculated after all other MAB boosts are factored in), and is activated by ice maneuvers. Note that ice maneuvers are all consumed after a nuke lands when this attachment is equipped. Think of this as a prism staff for the automaton on crack, but without the magic acc boost.

Tranquilizer: This wonderful item gives ?/?/?/? magic accuracy bonus, and is activated by ice maneuvers. The amount of accuracy is unknown, but the magic acc boost is rather huge. Oniwaka can land nukes on proto-ultima for full damage easily. (On one parse, out of 23 nukes in a rather short fight, one half resisted and the rest all landed for full.)
With this attachment, resists will be very few for the vast majority of mobs, with a few exceptions. Mainly I found Kirin to be a pain with resists, because 4-5 other blms are nuking with wind as well and the resist patch kicks in. With Oniwaka nuking alone before (while kiter was building hate and adds were being killed), he had no resist issues. As soon as the other blms joined in, it was impossible to land for full damage. The only other pissy mob I've found so far is Stonewall from the Grauberg fey weapon fight, who resists quite a bit on top of his damage taken down effect, but again I'm nuking with another blm, which skews it slightly. Even so, magic does quite nice, as Oni parsed highest on the fight.

Stealth Screen: gives -10/-20/-30/-40 enmity, activated with water maneuvers. Nice to have to help avoid pulling hate, but not a big deal most of the time due to automaton hate shedding.

Mana Channeler: sacrifices magic recast time for magic attack bonus. The recast time is increased by 5/10/15/20 seconds, and magic attack bonus granted is 10/20/30/40, activated by water maneuvers.

Optic Fiber: Increases all other % based attachments by 10/20%/25%/30%, activated by light maneuvers.

Condenser: This wonderful item does not give a boost to damage at all... instead it will consume a water maneuver to prevent an overload from another maneuver (note: it does not prevent overload from water maneuvers. lol) It also seems to reset the burden of that maneuver to slightly below threshold, so you can often squeeze another maneuver safely after it stops an overload, sometimes two. It also works if the water maneuver will be pushed away by a fourth maneuver, I.E. ice ice water, a third ice to push the oldest (water) maneuver out. The water maneuver will still prevent overload on the newest ice, even though it will be overwritten.

With this in mind, you're looking at:

70 INT + 6 INT from 3 ice maneuvers with AF gloves, sometimes +14~ from ABS-INT by the time you got 3 ice maneuvers up if it lands.

A large boost to magic accuracy

+25 MAB from loudspeaker II
+10 MAB from mana channeler
2+1 (3) MAB from Optic Fiber

-10 + -1 (optic fiber) enmity

+60% MAB from ice maker

so 1.38 x 160% = 2.20, or uh... wouldn't that be 120 magic attack bonus?

for lower stuff where you're not worried about magic accuracy, you can swap tranquilizer for loudspeaker I for 20 (+2 from optic fiber) MAB, or 1.60 x 160% = 2.56, or 156 magic attack bonus. :3

Now, for those who want some screenies, here we are:

These tests were done on tundra tigers in beaucedine glacier. For some reason I don't have any screenshots of higher stuff. -_-; But oh well, this first is base damage without abs-int or burn on the mob, nor day/weather bonuses. (the bottom one, first two blizzard IVs are from single ice weather boredom while waiting for it to clear up)
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This is with burn and abs-int, but no weather bonuses(bottom one again):
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This is with only double weather bonus(bottom again, the random aero III was on a tiger pet while I was bored waiting around for weather...automatons don't overnuke, hence the lower tier):

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When potions attack!
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This is with abs int, burn, and double ice weather bonus:
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You may weep now.



As far as gear/attachments goes, I used the following attachments: Ice maker, Loudspeaker II, Loudspeaker, Optic fiber, Mana tank, Mana tank II, stealth screen, mana channeler, mana conserver, turbo charger, steam jacket, condenser.

For gear, I used a mirke with pet: magic acc/attack bonus +7, puppetry dastanas +1 for reduced overload/+2 int per maneuver instead of +1, buffoon's collar (signed by Ramidus cause hes my awesome friend!) to reduce overload, a sapphire earring with pet: magic acc +1, a brocade obi with pet: magic acc +2, pantin churidars (+5 pet magic acc), and pantin babouches (+5 pet magic att). Oh, and turbo animator.
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In gear, this gives me a total of +12 pet magic att bonus, and +15 pet magic acc. Keep in mind there's more to get, but it's luck dependant and mine hasn't been kind to me yet. I can still get up to +10 pet magic accuracy from colored key rewards, and up to +10 pet magic attack bonus from the same, though some occupy the same slot, so it's a trade off.

Oh yes, we can fire off a full powered nuke every 30-40ish seconds, or a 1 ice and 3 ice nuke every minute. We can fire off spells even faster with mana booster and discarding the ice maker/mana chaneler, getting recast down to 16 or so seconds (8.25 of which are used up while the automaton is casting a spell, so about 8 seconds for it to start casting again after it fires a spell off. This weakens nukes considerably, but puts out a lot of them. The only problem is that automatons use aspir once a minute if it falls below 75% of max MP, provided the monster has an MP pool and it senses it won't resist, so this is more useful on monsters that are dark elemental based like diabolos, or don't possess any MP.

Happy casting! :3


(TD; LR version: read the whole thing, or Oniwaka will one shot you with his mighty Blizzard IV of doom.)

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 Seraph.Zoey
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user: ZoeyofS
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By Seraph.Zoey 2009-10-28 00:28:03
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Nermal you post is very imformative. Nice!

Before I had Zmitts I went with Genie Manillas for mab+3 and the elemental magic. I really dig elemental magic+ becuase the nukes resist alot less the higher that is.

I didn't even realise the benefits Int had over MAB on smaller damage spells until SCH came out and a discussion I had with another scholar player on how to increase Helix damage. It's good to know.

Oh! Thanks for the advice.
 Odin.Blazza
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By Odin.Blazza 2009-10-28 00:30:51
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Well he was initially attacking Porkg because he claims to have done 2500+ without support, which the majority of the thread has agreed is simply not going to happen with his gear. He continues to claim that he was in a BLM only party and had no support at all, even though all the math wizards, while arguing amongst each other, have agreed that it's simply not possible without a weather bonus or some other form of support. ie: he's lying and everyone knows it. You got caught in the cross-fire because you supported a known liar with some math that was based on misinformation (like adding the 25% damage bonus again), and then finished up with a number that was STILL below Porkg's nuke, but justified it with the word lowballing.

I'm not defending Princemercury's attitude, but his reasoning is sound, yours isn't.
 Seraph.Caiyuo
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By Seraph.Caiyuo 2009-10-28 00:40:43
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DAMN PSION, you are a *** champion.
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