Anything You Can Do, I Can Do Better!: RDM Guide

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Anything You Can Do, I Can Do Better!: RDM Guide
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 Phoenix.Iocus
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By Phoenix.Iocus 2024-11-18 05:54:09
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Argisto said: »
During this testing I found an interesting detail. Whenever Paralyze would land for full duration it would always be accompanied by the "Magic Burst!" message in the log. Whenever Paralyze was partially resisted the log would always display just the normal spell landing message. This made it possible to determine spell duration at the time of cast. It seems like only spells that land for full duration get tagged with the "Magic Burst!" log message for whatever reason.

That's really cool info. Thank you very much for your hard work and curiosity.
 Cerberus.Dekar
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By Cerberus.Dekar 2024-11-18 11:48:21
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Argisto said: »
During this testing I found an interesting detail. Whenever Paralyze would land for full duration it would always be accompanied by the "Magic Burst!" message in the log. Whenever Paralyze was partially resisted the log would always display just the normal spell landing message. This made it possible to determine spell duration at the time of cast. It seems like only spells that land for full duration get tagged with the "Magic Burst!" log message for whatever reason.

I've noticed something like this before. Whenever I attempted to magic burst cure on undead with BRD/WHM, I never got the "Magic Burst!" message despite landing during the window. Not sure if it's relevant, but it's weird that some things won't get that message.

I believe I also saw this before on PLD when magic bursting with Divine Emblem and Holy II. Though I can't recall if that's still an issue. I know Divine Emblem + Holy II does inflict Amnesia on undead but I have no idea if that's relevant.
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By Argisto 2024-11-24 21:18:53
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An incorrect assumption and more findings.

Previously, I have shared some testing regarding the relationship between Rayke/skillchains and negative status ranks. This was based on the assumption that Rayke and skillchains have the same effect at all resistance ranks. This testing, I have come to find, is not a valid test to show a their relationship with negative status ranks. It is actually just a fluke that it aligns with the hit rate testing previously performed here and here.

How is this so? I was doing some testing with Rayke on elementals in Ru'Aun Gardens and found that I was unable to land any negative status effects relying on elemental resistance ranks regardless of the number of correlating runes used (with the exception of Impact which always takes effect with or without Rayke for unrelated reasons). The fact that Rayke was not working for negative status effects relying on elemental ranks at rank A+(5%) just as it had no effect for Sleep and it's A+(5%) negative status rank therefore invalidated the previous method of testing used to claim Rayke does not affect negative status ranks. This also made me question my original testing with negative status ranks and skillchains. I believed this behavior pointed to some other undocumented characteristic of the highest resistance ranks.

This led to some questions: How do the highest elemental resistance ranks of A+(5%) and A(10%) react to attempts to change their ranks? It is already known a monster's negative status rank can be lowered via Immunobreak from the highest resistance rank of A+(5%). Are the highest elemental ranks able to be lowered via Rayke and skillchains as well?

First, just some data to start with at rank A+(5%). As an M lvl 25 RUN/RDM, I went out to the dark elementals in Ru'Aun Gardens and tried to land Frazzle using a magic accuracy set after using Rayke with 3 Tenebrae runes.

3 Tenebrae rune Rayke + Frazzle
Full Duration: 0
Partial Resist: 0
Full Resist: 400

For an ability that lowers elemental resistance ranks it sure seemed to be doing a lot of nothing. If Rayke had taken effect, its dark rank should have gone from A+(5%) to B(20%) and Frazzle should have landed easily. Interestingly, when Rayke was used on the dark elemental the chat log displayed the normal message as if it had taken effect normally.

Next, I wanted to see how Rayke behaved at rank A(10%). My next target was the Shadow Lord HTMB on VE (Lvl 113). First, I needed to verify it's dark resistance rank of A(10%). Monster stats here. This testing was done during it's second form so I wouldn't have to deal with the magic shield of the first form. I cast Frazzle on it multiple times to get a baseline. I'm not going to bother listing all the gear or find target dMND for this because I'm only looking for a data set to compare to. I just stacked as much magic accuracy as I could since there are no published magic evasion values for this.

Relevant Stats:
M lvl 25 RUN/RDM
1109 Magic Accuracy (including Enfeebling skill from /RDM and gear)
Cornelia and Star Sybil Trusts-Magic Accuracy +49
Marine Stewpot-Magic Accuracy +90
Frazzle +150 Magic Accuracy Bonus
Total Magic Accuracy: 1259

Frazzle Baseline at rank A(10%)
Full Duration: 0
Partial Resist: 4
Full Resist: 96

Since Frazzle has a forced 1/2 resist state at ranks C-(50%) and higher, the above sample seems to be in line with the forced capped hit rate of 5% for rank A(10%) when this is taken into account. I would like to do some more testing in the future to verify how the resist states of a two-state negative status effect relying on elemental ranks are stepped down during a forced resist (e.g. full duration is obviously stepped down to 1/2, is 1/2 duration stepped down to full resist?) to know if this is actually our hit rate for certain. For now, we are just looking for obvious changes. In the next sample, I cast Frazzle after using Rayke on the Shadow Lord with just one Tenebrae rune.

Frazzle with a 1 Tenebrae rune Rayke
Full Duration: 0
Partial Resist: 49
Full Resist: 1

I stopped here in the second sample since it's very obvious that Rayke has changed the Shadow Lord's dark resistance rank from A(10%) to B+(15%).

Next, time to test skillchains. As an M lvl. 34 RDM/NIN I went out to Cirdas caverns to make darkness skillchains (CDC>Requiescat) on some lvl 103-105 Livid Umbrils with dark rank A+(5%). Monster stats found here. In this trial I wanted to see if it was possible to change a monster's A+(5%) rank via skillchains in order to land Frazzle during a magic burst. Again, I'm not going to bother finding dMND or listing all the gear used to cast Frazzle as it's not super important for this.

Relevant Stats:
M lvl 34 RDM/NIN
1500 Magic Accuracy (including Enfeebling skill, gear, merits)
Cornelia and Star Sybil Trusts-Magic Accuracy +49
Marine Stewpot-Magic Accuracy +90
Magic burst-Magic Accuracy +50
Frazzle +150 Magic Accuracy Bonus
Total Magic Accuracy: 1839

Magic burst Frazzle on Umbril
Full Duration: 0
Partial Resist: 0
Full Resist: 600

As can be seen, not a single Frazzle landed in 600 magic burst attempts. It seems like skillchains have no effect on the Umbril's A+(5%) dark elemental resistance rank. If they did, there would have been some partial resists totaling around 5% of the overall sample from being lowered to rank A(10%).


I used a standard TP set with a 1 dmg sword/dagger in the main/offhand for TP phase and used the same equipment to weaponskill.

Now, back to the Shadow Lord HTMB as RDM. I performed the same baseline test as I did on RUN and repeatedly cast Frazzle during the second form to get a baseline using the same magic accuracy as above minus the magic burst bonus.

RDM Frazzle rank A(10%) baseline
Full Duration: 0
Partial Resist: 5
Full Resist: 95

Very similar to our baseline results obtained with RUN. Next, I performed darkness skillchains (CDC>Requiescat) during the second form and cast Frazzle during the magic burst window.

Magic Bursted Frazzle
Full Duration: 0
Partial Resist: 50
Full Resist: 0

It seems safe to say that the Shadow Lord's A(10%) dark rank was lowered to B+(15%) by the darkness skillchains.

In conclusion, there are many things that the data sets above seem to suggest:

1. Neither Rayke nor skillchains can lower a monster's elemental resistance rank from the highest rank of A+(5%). It seems the only way to do so from this rank is via a mechanic built into the monster (i.e. Gartell changing elemental resistances). To me, this seems like an intentional characteristic put in by the devs.

2. Rayke and skillchains are able to lower elemental resistance ranks starting from rank A(10%) and lower.

3. This testing method with Rayke and this testing method with skillchains are not valid tests to show that they do not affect negative status resistance ranks since they do not work for elemental resistance ranks either at rank A+(5%). I will amend these previous posts to reflect this information. Negative status ranks are still unaffected by Rayke or skillchains as shown via hit rate testing here and here.
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 Asura.Sechs
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By Asura.Sechs 2024-11-25 02:40:20
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Thanks a lot Argisto.
This made me think about the situation I experienced with Mboze V25 and Purulent Ooze.

At V25 Purulent Ooze doesn't land, of course (it's water based and appearently Mboze has a high resistance rank against water, from your test I'd say A?)
3x Unda Runes Rayke isn't enough to land it either.
Frazzle 3 (need SP2 to land it) alone isn't enough to land it either.
A Skillchain (from SCH with stratagems) and related Magic Burst isn't enough to land it either.

But if you combine Rayke+SC or Rayke+Frazzle3, then Purulent Ooze will land no problem on V25 Mboze.


For comparison on V20 Rayke enough was enough to land it and I don't remember about lower Vengeance levels but I seem to recall that on V15 and lower Purulent Ooze was landing okayish by itself.
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By Felgarr 2024-11-25 02:53:10
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Thanks for your hard work Argisto!

I was only able to do a quick read of Arguisto's post because it's 4AM, but I wanted to explore "mechanic built into the monster"; and you mentioned Gartell, which has a clearly visible mechanic from the player's perspective.

It is wholly possible the this ability to lower resistance is a property of the monster that we cannot see or experience as players right?
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By Argisto 2024-11-30 13:46:37
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I've updated the Resist and Immunobreak sections of BG with the relevant information. If you see any errors please let me know.
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 Ragnarok.Martel
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By Ragnarok.Martel 2024-11-30 15:36:18
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Fantastic additions. I'll be referencing these pages forever now.Maybe I'll actually start to feel like I really understand this ***finally. lol.
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 Cerberus.Shadowmeld
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By Cerberus.Shadowmeld 2024-11-30 21:45:31
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I've pretty much accepted that resistance and resistance ranks will be my one blind spot of RDM knowledge in this game. I just don't understand it at all. :P
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