Cait Sith HTBF Discussion

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Cait Sith HTBF Discussion
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By Pantafernando 2020-05-05 08:20:41
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Im still formulating hipotesys about this one.

So far, my current one is that move hits everyone which HP at the very moment of Divine Favor animation starts isa multiple of the dice he throws. For example, my HP is 2000 and he rolls 5, it will hit me. But if its 2001, it will have no effect.

Second hipothesys is that the dmg formula should be: base * multiplier * dice number. Now its something i need to test but it seems the multiplier increases by one every time he uses divine favor or lv ? Holy itself. Thats why it gets stupid high as more long the fight drags.

In theory, if you can have a tight control of your HP so that you always have a prime number, you can avoid all dice numbers but 1, which is the weakest in theory.

The problem is the multiplier, that will make even number 1 deadly. My next step researching it is to figure if there is any mechanism that reset or reduce this multiplier. When i get merits, gonna recheck the multiplier theory then see if tossing enfeebs can reduce its dmg
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By Mattelot 2020-05-05 08:21:08
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Draylo said: »
I haven't died to it once.

When Mighty Guard saves you from severe damage and you say "sup, brah?"
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By Draylo 2020-05-05 08:35:02
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Yeah they don't get the good defensive tools I do with gear and spells, sadly. They also get dispelled from Dispelga, which is annoying.
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By Solonuke 2021-08-19 15:09:33
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I did some recordings on various difficulties and I think the damage is based on your current max HP divided by the roll. If the resulting number is not a number without decimals then you won't take any damage.

When I had max HP that was divisible by 4, then I would take a lot of damage. The trusts did not take any damage when the roll was 4 because of their HP was not divisible with that number.

I tested this with a gear set that gave me a prime number as max HP. It seemed like the spell would not do any damage if the roll was anything but 1.

I tested this on Very Easy to Difficult.
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 Asura.Eiryl
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By Asura.Eiryl 2021-08-19 15:17:23
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I really never expected anyone to actually work toward nailing the mechanic.

While the simple answer is change your gear/merits to have 2437 HP, it would be neat to know the multiple.

2000 hp rolls a 4 on VE take 200 (x50)
2000 hp rolls a 4 on E take 400 (x100)
2000 hp rolls a 4 on N take 1000 (x250)
2000 hp rolls a 4 on D take 2000 (x500)
2000 hp rolls a 4 on VD take 4000 (x1000)
 Asura.Jdove
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By Asura.Jdove 2021-08-19 18:11:39
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I was always under the impression it was based of current hp not max. Like take a little dmg it changes etc. I never tested tho.
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By Solonuke 2021-08-20 14:23:22
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I did some more testing and got the following on normal difficulty.

I used gear that gave me 2179 HP, which is a prime number. I let Caith Sith attack me for good 15 minutes on 2 runs. The only times I took damage was when the roll was 1. I also noticed the trusts never took any damage if the roll was anything but 1. So I decided to check what their Max HP were divided by the roll.

Code
           MaxHp    1      2         3              4         5        6
Ulmia      2407    2407    1203,5    802,3333333    601,75    481,4    401,1666667
Joachim    2227    2227    1113,5    742,3333333    556,75    445,4    371,1666667
Yoran      1763    1763    881,5     587,6666667    440,75    352,6    293,8333333
Koru       1897    1897    948,5     632,3333333    474,25    379,4    316,1666667
Qultada    2371    2371    1185,5    790,3333333    592,75    474,2    395,1666667
Me         2179    2179    1089,5    726,3333333    544,75    435,8    363,1666667



The trusts died at one point when a 1 was rolled, everyone except for Yoran took 5k+ damage.
Code
Ulmia      6060
Joachim    6409
Yoran      65
Koru       5316
Qultada    4219
Me         123


Qultada had shell on that try, it would have dealt 5828 damage without. Other runs it seemed like the trusts would take around 6k damage with no resist or shell. I assume the numbers differs slightly because of the trusts have different magic defense bonus values.

Both me and Yoran have very high magic evasion, which probably explains why using spells such as light carol is effective in this fight. The majority of the 1 rolls did not kill the trusts.

The only time I took damage from the roll was when it was 1. I died instantly when I used food or changed into weaponskill set.

MAX HP 2204 Roll 4 did 7477 did damage.
MAX HP 1900 Roll 3 did 1966 did damage.

Could very well be the higher Caith Sith rolls, the more damage she does.

Because the trusts HP was not a prime number, I would say it's adequate to use gear that gives you max HP that can't be divided by a number between 2 to 6.
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By Sylph.Reain 2021-08-20 15:09:53
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I'm fairly sure the hp ? holy gets stronger with each divine favor use. Light or dark damage may force divine favor.
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By Solonuke 2021-08-20 17:08:28
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I think there could be a multiplier that keeps increasing after each HP ? Holy use. I went through the footage of the fight again and noticed the damage only kept increasing. First roll 1 did 800, then 1k, then 2k, 2.3k and then 4k.

There was no divine favor between the spike increase from 1k to 2k. Otherwise there was at least one in between.
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By Asura.Jdove 2021-08-20 17:36:38
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The higher the roll definitely does more dmg, its a lot like the blood pact level ? holy. If the roll doesn't divide evenly with the level (in this case your HP) then the blood pact does not work. 1 can be evenly divided by anything so it will always work, when say she rolls a 6 and it divides evenly the dmg is multiplied by 6 (6 times the dmg of what a roll would do if she rolled just 1) or what ever number if its able to divide evenly into the equation.
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By Solonuke 2021-08-21 19:18:30
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I did some more testing on normal difficulty.

I'm not sure if the divine favor directly increases the damage of HP ? Holy or indirectly because it triggers another HP ? Holy to be cast. I tested this out yet again by having a non divisible max HP on me and my trusts and observed the damage when it rolled a 1.

After 7 Divine Favors the roll did around 3-6k damage to my trusts. After 2 more divine favors the spell did 8-11k damage to my trusts instead. It seems like the divine favor stack is kept post wipe as no additional divine favors were used after recovering. Forcing Caith Sith to spam Divine Favors was the only time I observed the spell doing more than 11k on normal.

Log below shows the run. I shortened the HP ? Holy that did no damage to one line. All HP ? Holy spells that dealt damage was a 1 roll.
Code
[01:20:41] [CaitSith] Divine Favor -> CaitSith
[01:20:49] [CaitSith] HP ? Holy -> Me
[01:20:49] [CaitSith] HP ? Holy -> Me
[01:21:26] [CaitSith] Divine Favor -> CaitSith
[01:21:28] [CaitSith] 2 effects disappear Divine Favor -> CaitSith
[01:21:33] [CaitSith] HP ? Holy -> Me
[01:21:42] [CaitSith] Divine Favor -> CaitSith
[01:21:49] [CaitSith] HP ? Holy -> Me
[01:22:00] [CaitSith] Divine Favor -> CaitSith
[01:22:08] [CaitSith] HP ? Holy -> Me
[01:22:16] [CaitSith] Divine Favor -> CaitSith
[01:22:27] [CaitSith] HP ? Holy -> Me
[01:22:35] [CaitSith] Divine Favor -> CaitSith
[01:22:43] [CaitSith] HP ? Holy -> Me
[01:22:54] [CaitSith] Divine Favor -> CaitSith
[01:23:01] [CaitSith] HP ? Holy -> Me
[01:23:01] [CaitSith] 279 HP ? Holy -> Me
[01:23:01] AOE 5806 -> Qultada
[01:23:01] AOE 4057 -> Ulmia
[01:23:01] AOE 3627 -> Joachim
[01:23:01] AOE 2684 -> Yoran|Oran
[01:23:30] [CaitSith] Divine Favor -> CaitSith
[01:23:37] [CaitSith] HP ? Holy -> Me
[01:23:45] [CaitSith] Divine Favor -> CaitSith
[01:23:56] [CaitSith] HP ? Holy -> Me
[01:23:57] [CaitSith] HP ? Holy -> Me <- Wipe occurred here
[01:32:28] [CaitSith] HP ? Holy -> Me
[01:33:05] [CaitSith] HP ? Holy -> Me
[01:33:05] [CaitSith] 2135 HP ? Holy -> Me
[01:33:05] AOE 8980 -> Qultada
[01:33:05] AOE 11176 -> Ulmia
[01:33:05] AOE 9976 -> Joachim
[01:33:05] AOE 8018 -> Yoran|Oran
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 Sylph.Pve
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By Sylph.Pve 2021-12-14 04:55:16
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No one probably cares about Cait Sith anymore by now, but just in case anyone is trying it for the first time, I got some new data after helping a SMN friend get the crown drop.

I spent all night experimenting this merit bcnm doing VD runs with MNK/WHM/BRD/GEO/COR/SMN. The COR and BRD are just buffer alts and stayed out of the range after buffs.

I was noticing the back to back Divine Favor & Holy ? spam. We were getting easy wins with all characters having prime number max HP and SMN giving Earthen Armor, but I was curious about the Divine Favor spam because it seemed weird.

I tried not using dark runes (/RUN SJ) and geo-frailty this time and not using Shijin Spiral due to the plague debuff and only spamming Howling Fist or Raging Fists to avoid skillchains. No Dia either.

Lo and behold, it only used Divine Favor once as its first TP move then never used it again, it used Holy ? about 3-4 times, and the rest of its TP moves were Eerie Eye, Regal Scratch and Mewing Lullaby.

No more random 1 shot KO Holy ?'s and it felt like a normal Cait Sith fight at this point. Not sure if it's light/dark damage or the GEO bubbles that sets it off, but I will experiment some more.

Again, I know everyone mostly moved on from this but, hey, anyone that still needs Cait Sith can try this strategy for easier VD runs.
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By Phoenix.Capuchin 2021-12-14 14:21:46
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FWIW, I sometimes still hop in this fight to get stuff for mules/friends and have never had any issues when using BRD+DD (typically I use MNK). Important part is to have support give some damage mitigation and not just 100% DD, that makes things pretty simple.

With SV up, I do Light Carol x2, Scherzo, Minuet x1, March x1 (Victory March alone caps haste with SV, Honor March does if you also get Haste spell). With both Carols and Scherzo, I never die to Level ??? Holy and neither do trusts. Try to dispel Enlight, punch the thing, ???, profit.

My normal party setup with trusts: MNK BRD Monbereaux Ajido (fast on the dispels) Ygnas Sylvie. Some flexibility on those Trusts, could easily swap for a different healer (Yoran?), use a RDM (prob Arciela to avoid Dia/Divine Favor), Selh'teus, etc. I'd Drop Ajido or Sylvie first to fit in more actual players (or Ygnas if replacing with a player WHM).

I'll do D with SV up and MNK+BRD, N with no SV. Could probably be fine on VD too (certainly not an issue of Level ??? Holy, but the hard hits without a real tank can get a little risky), but drop rate is pretty decent on D so I'm comfortable doing that and it's really safe. I use Godhands and spam Howling Fist, not sure if self light SCs from Smite-Smite would be a liability by causing more Divine Favor. MNK is nice since Impetus = good white damage and you may get lengthy Amnesia, and low TP feed never hurts.
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By Sylph.Pve 2021-12-16 00:38:20
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OK so I narrowed it down to any debuffs and/or dark damage causing it to spam divine favor which makes HP ? Holy damage go up.

Geo-Frailty and light skillchains worked ok.

The moment I used Tenebrae 2x on mnk/run, it went rage mode right away.
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By Asura.Sechs 2021-12-16 01:20:39
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LIGHT skillchains?
You sure you didn't mean DARK skillchains?
I haven't been doing Caith Sith in a while 'cause I got everything I wanted but when I used to spam this on VD we were using DARK skillchains.
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By Sylph.Pve 2021-12-16 01:40:40
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I would have to go back and play some more, but I definitely pinned it on tenebrae's enspell as being the culprit 100%. Skillchains might not be a trigger at all but I didn't get to test darkness sc's.
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By Shichishito 2021-12-16 03:35:02
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i've spammed this with BLU/MNK (no dark damage from tenebrae but from tenebral crush) on E or N and had runs where he'd use the HP move very sparringly and others where he'd spam it. so i'm not convinced dark damage triggers it but maybe it's some mechanic only active on D+, in that case ignore my input.
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By Asura.Geriond 2021-12-16 07:21:40
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Shichishito said: »
i've spammed this with BLU/MNK (no dark damage from tenebrae but from tenebral crush) on E or N and had runs where he'd use the HP move very sparringly and others where he'd spam it. so i'm not convinced dark damage triggers it but maybe it's some mechanic only active on D+, in that case ignore my input.
He's saying dark damage triggers Divine Favor, not Level ? Holy.
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